10 suck calves on milk replacer ?

GreatOaktree

Hi all,
In the coming months I intend to buy 10 bull calves for 200 a piece and rear them on milk replacer. I'll use a whey based replacer. I hope to get them at 10 days old and feed them twice a day for 10 days and then once a day for 10 days and then decrease the feed according to the amount of starter and hay they are eating. studies in the USA show that stirring the starter 6 or more times a day encourages them to eat it getting the rumen developed quicker. I have housing and 5 acres of pasture on heavy soil. The plan is to get them to 250kg by November and sell. How does that sound ? how much is 16% protein feed ? how much should they be getting ? is 5 acres enough ? Are there any grants or subsidies or benefits that I can apply for ?

thanks for reading

sh1tstirrer

GreatOaktree wrote: »

Hi all,
In the coming months I intend to buy 10 bull calves for 200 a piece and rear them on milk replacer. I'll use a whey based replacer. I hope to get them at 10 days old and feed them twice a day for 10 days and then once a day for 10 days and then decrease the feed according to the amount of starter and hay they are eating. studies in the USA show that stirring the starter 6 or more times a day encourages them to eat it getting the rumen developed quicker. I have housing and 5 acres of pasture on heavy soil. The plan is to get them to 250kg by November and sell. How does that sound ? how much is 16% protein feed ? how much should they be getting ? is 5 acres enough ? Are there any grants or subsidies or benefits that I can apply for ?

thanks for reading

Sounds ok apart from the whey based milk replacer use skim based instead.

GreatOaktree

are you **** stirring ha ?

my local supplier only has whey based but I'll look a wee bit further a field and see how I get on ?
What sorta return should I expect and what vet bills should I expect ?

I'm from Cavan too

welton john

GreatOaktree wrote: »

Hi all,
In the coming months I intend to buy 10 bull calves for 200 a piece and rear them on milk replacer. I'll use a whey based replacer. I hope to get them at 10 days old and feed them twice a day for 10 days and then once a day for 10 days and then decrease the feed according to the amount of starter and hay they are eating. studies in the USA show that stirring the starter 6 or more times a day encourages them to eat it getting the rumen developed quicker. I have housing and 5 acres of pasture on heavy soil. The plan is to get them to 250kg by November and sell. How does that sound ? how much is 16% protein feed ? how much should they be getting ? is 5 acres enough ? Are there any grants or subsidies or benefits that I can apply for ?

thanks for reading

18% might be a little better for calves.
Would you consider buying a few yearlings.we've kept 25+ calves with last few years to sell as stores and whatever profit is in them was made the second year on grass.

Greengrass1

Strip graze and back fence the 5 acres otherwise you will have no grass.
Find strip grazing calves worked well for us

Miname

10 calves @ 200
10 bags of milk replacer@42
250-300 kg of meal each (minimum if you want to get them to that weight) @250 per ton
dosing vet and vaccinations 30 per calf
haulage and mart fees

Each calf will need to come into at least 400 to be standing still and thats not allowing for losses, you'll need to be buying them early to get them to 250kg average also, some will do it some wont no matter how much meal you throw at them.
if you still want to do it after all of that then fair play, grass will be scarce on heavy ground towards the end of the year also if they have only 5 acres.

Greengrass1

Miname wrote: »

10 calves @ 200
10 bags of milk replacer@42
250-300 kg of meal each (minimum if you want to get them to that weight) @250 per ton
dosing vet and vaccinations 30 per calf
haulage and mart fees

Each calf will need to come into at least 400 to be standing still and thats not allowing for losses, you'll need to be buying them early to get them to 250kg average also, some will do it some wont no matter how much meal you throw at them.
if you still want to do it after all of that then fair play, grass will be scarce on heavy ground towards the end of the year also if they have only 5 acres.

Shouldn't need that much mea . Had good few Feb heifers at 250 in Nov this yrs and had no meal since weaning

sh1tstirrer

GreatOaktree wrote: »

are you **** stirring ha ?

my local supplier only has whey based but I'll look a wee bit further a field and see how I get on ?
What sorta return should I expect and what vet bills should I expect ?

I'm from Cavan too

No sh1tstirring Shine once a day is skim based it can also be fed twice a day Glanbia stock it,

epfff

GreatOaktree wrote: »

Hi all,
In the coming months I intend to buy 10 bull calves for 200 a piece and rear them on milk replacer. I'll use a whey based replacer. I hope to get them at 10 days old and feed them twice a day for 10 days and then once a day for 10 days and then decrease the feed according to the amount of starter and hay they are eating. studies in the USA show that stirring the starter 6 or more times a day encourages them to eat it getting the rumen developed quicker. I have housing and 5 acres of pasture on heavy soil. The plan is to get them to 250kg by November and sell. How does that sound ? how much is 16% protein feed ? how much should they be getting ? is 5 acres enough ? Are there any grants or subsidies or benefits that I can apply for ?

thanks for reading

Lots of flaws in your plan
Ill just mention a few
20 days on twice a day rarely is eneough
You dont cut back on milk untill about 8 weeks depending on meal consumption
10 calves you will need about an acre if you want them 250 for november because grass will stop them eating ration
Remember straw is your friend keep a little with them all summer
Grants are you for real?
All ill say after that Proceed with great caution
from what I am reading you are already in too deep get out while you can

epfff

GreatOaktree wrote: »

Hi all,
In the coming months I intend to buy 10 bull calves for 200 a piece and rear them on milk replacer. I'll use a whey based replacer. I hope to get them at 10 days old and feed them twice a day for 10 days and then once a day for 10 days and then decrease the feed according to the amount of starter and hay they are eating. studies in the USA show that stirring the starter 6 or more times a day encourages them to eat it getting the rumen developed quicker. I have housing and 5 acres of pasture on heavy soil. The plan is to get them to 250kg by November and sell. How does that sound ? how much is 16% protein feed ? how much should they be getting ? is 5 acres enough ? Are there any grants or subsidies or benefits that I can apply for ?

thanks for reading

Lots of flaws in your plan
Ill just mention a few
20 days on twice a day rarely is eneough
You dont cut back on milk untill about 8 weeks depending on meal consumption
10 calves you will need about an acre if you want them 250 for november because grass will stop them eating ration
Remember straw is your friend keep a little with them all summer
Grants are you for real?
All ill say after that Proceed with great caution
from what I am reading you are already in too deep get out while you can

welton john

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Shouldn't need that much mea . Had good few Feb heifers at 250 in Nov this yrs and had no meal since weaning

They were prob on good reseeded ground not in a field of rushes.Horse on the meal ;-)

GreatOaktree

I'll go for the shine so.

Ok so lets say for an investment of 3500 and strip grazing could i get a return of 8 grand ? what would be wrong with that ?

why is straw good for them ? as feed ?

I'm open to all suggestions here

Bullocks

GreatOaktree wrote: »

I'll go for the shine so.

Ok so lets say for an investment of 3500 and strip grazing could i get a return of 8 grand ? what would be wrong with that ?

why is straw good for them ? as feed ?

I'm open to all suggestions here

I don't see the 8k return , 250kg weaning like that were picked up for 400/500 euro this autumn.

_Brian

GreatOaktree wrote: »

Hi all,
In the coming months I intend to buy 10 bull calves for 200 a piece and rear them on milk replacer. I'll use a whey based replacer. I hope to get them at 10 days old and feed them twice a day for 10 days and then once a day for 10 days and then decrease the feed according to the amount of starter and hay they are eating. studies in the USA show that stirring the starter 6 or more times a day encourages them to eat it getting the rumen developed quicker. I have housing and 5 acres of pasture on heavy soil. The plan is to get them to 250kg by November and sell. How does that sound ? how much is 16% protein feed ? how much should they be getting ? is 5 acres enough ? Are there any grants or subsidies or benefits that I can apply for ?

thanks for reading

I found supercream from freshacres a good milk replacer, but we would feed twice a day as you're going to be seeing them twice or more anyway.
Budget for a bag a head we found works well.

Starter crunch needs to be in the shed from day 1 as with nice fresh straw in a feeder, we would have replaced the uneaten crunch every second day and given it to weanlings so there was fresh stuff in front of calves all the time and yet it wasn't wasted. Found fresh rolled barley also good to get them started as it smells sweet and seems to attract them, just throw some onto the crunch.

Never ever hay to sucks unless to a sick animal.

Have an isolation pen ready with heat lamp fitted, you'll need it just when putting one together is a big deal so best have it there. Once theyre really sick they need a heat lamp - even with a high temp, I asked the vet this and definitely.

Get a thermometer and be ready to use it regularly, calves show a high temp fairly instantly theyre sick so its a great indicator..

Have some basic vetinary supplies ready too, sulpha 2 powders, electrolytes, pink "scour" tablets too. Again you'll need them at some stage so best have them to hand.

Keep straw under them dry and clean at all times, you should be able to kneel on the bedding and not get a wet knee within 10seconds ( read this on a site and its actually a good enough gauge).

Fresh water is important for weaning, we opted for no piped supply as its then easier to know how much theyre drinking. Water needs to be really, really clean and fresh, we would dump twice daily and refill with fresh, when feeding.

Get to know the signs of a sick calf, ears down, quiet, eyes sunken. Sucks go down really quickly so if you miss it, you're on the back foot treating anything.

Look up skin tent test for recognising a dehydrated calf, its a good simple test.

When you have a calf with a scour, and I say WHEN rather than IF. Don't restrict feeding, the calf is already pouring energy out its backside - starving it too will only kill it quicker.

Again, pretty no matter what the ailment - give the calf electrolytes, plenty of electrolytes. 20minutes before feed is ideal. This raises the blood pressure making them feel like eating, it also balances their blood to ensure the best absorb the feed, and of course keeps them hydrated.

Know how to mix your feed, there's a huge difference in;
add xg of powder to 2l water
or
add xg of powder to mix to 2l of feed.

This is about 10% difference in density of the feed and will under/over feed calves causing poor thrive or nutritional scour.

I found it handy to do one good accurate mix and mark the bucket with permanent marker, then your not measuring all the time and speeds up feeding.

Get a water heater of some sorts right where your mixing feed.

We bought a €10 tesco drill and a skim coat mixer, mixes a batch of feed instantly and thouroughly which is important.

I think your weight target will be tough to acheive without plenty of meal and that may eat into your profit. I found that they only seem to get weight into them from 9 months, but time will tell.

I presume you have a supplier when you already know the price of the calves ?? What breeds will you have?


Rearing sucks is a nice farming style that I'd enjoy allot, but recent spring prices have left things with essentially no real margins.

Miname

GreatOaktree wrote: »

I'll go for the shine so.

Ok so lets say for an investment of 3500 and strip grazing could i get a return of 8 grand ? what would be wrong with that ?

why is straw good for them ? as feed ?

I'm open to all suggestions here

where is 8 grand coming from. dairy bred sucks at the end of the year will make 160-180 a kilo if they are good.

epfff

GreatOaktree wrote: »

I'll go for the shine so.

Ok so lets say for an investment of 3500 and strip grazing could i get a return of 8 grand ? what would be wrong with that ?

why is straw good for them ? as feed ?

I'm open to all suggestions here

Can I ask where are you getting the figure of 8grand from?
I think thats walter mitty prices

€2 a kilo would be more than the value of any dairy cross bucket rared calf in november

I feed and buy mostly dairy cross stock only reason I feed any calves is that I cant get my hands on numbers rared I cant say its the most profitable side of my business

mahoney_j

A good start is half the battle,feed them twice a day for first 10 days 300 Grames of powder to 3 ltrs of water .when starting oad start building up concenteration of powder over the next 7/10 days to 750 Grames even to 800 in 3.5 ltrs of 38 degree water.they will fly on this.keep feed and feeding time regular .
Also keep bed dry and fresh and offer an 18% p nut/ration (young stock need loads of p to grow a frame rather than get fat)and straw to appetite ,don't chop the straw,the more coarse the better.its also well worth ur while to vaccinate calves when they arrive for pbuemonia with bovipast followed up with a booster 3 weeks later.
If calves can acces a paddock all the better but make sure it's well sheltered or that they can retreat back to shed if they want.once weaned keep young lush grass into them ideally new patch twice a week and keep up with the 18% p meal about 1/2 kg per head depending on calf and grass quality.

GreatOaktree

Either there's loadsa Benny reilly's or your from Lavey

I've been researching like mad and I've seen lots of methods including the yogurt method but never read anything about mixing correctly. Thanks for that.

I was expecting sale prices of €3.50 a kg.

I've even toyed with the idea of buying a few old high cell count cows and milking them with one of those mobile milking machines to fatten as many calves as possible.

epfff

GreatOaktree wrote: »

Either there's loadsa Benny reilly's or your from Lavey

I've been researching like mad and I've seen lots of methods including the yogurt method but never read anything about mixing correctly. Thanks for that.

I was expecting sale prices of €3.50 a kg.

I've even toyed with the idea of buying a few old high cell count cows and milking them with one of those mobile milking machines to fatten as many calves as possible.

Top blues might make 350 that have no direct line back to any dairy breed and rared on a cow


A 200 euro calf without seeing him is a white head or angus
I bought most of them last november less than 400

Even if you give 350 ish for a ch or bb from dairy cow they still arent or never will be in the same league as a beef breed continental

My advice is go with 5Jersey and 5 fr first year keep money down and you will make mistakes and you will lose a calf or 2 while you learn

Base price

welton john wrote: »

18% might be a little better for calves.
Would you consider buying a few yearlings.we've kept 25+ calves with last few years to sell as stores and whatever profit is in them was made the second year on grass.

Totally agree. Lads queue up in marts around the country (myself included on occasion) picking up dairy/dairy x weanlings for handy money from lads who have put in all the effort and money rearing.
We rear a few calves in Spring and we would never consider selling them in the Autumn.

Bullocks

GreatOaktree wrote: »

Either there's loadsa Benny reilly's or your from Lavey

I've been researching like mad and I've seen lots of methods including the yogurt method but never read anything about mixing correctly. Thanks for that.

I was expecting sale prices of €3.50 a kg.

I've even toyed with the idea of buying a few old high cell count cows and milking them with one of those mobile milking machines to fatten as many calves as possible.

Might not be a bad idea to buy maybe three high cell quiet cows and put the calves sucking on them and not bother milking them yourself . Hopefully if you have patients you could get them all sucking and not have to feed them yourself after a couple of weeks. Fatten the cows as best you can and send them to the mart when they are dry and you should at least get back what you paid for them and maybe a bit more

Miname

Bullocks wrote: »

Might not be a bad idea to buy maybe three high cell quiet cows and put the calves sucking on them and not bother milking them yourself . Hopefully if you have patients you could get them all sucking and not have to feed them yourself after a couple of weeks. Fatten the cows as best you can and send them to the mart when they are dry and you should at least get back what you paid for them and maybe a bit more

i got the olld man one last autumn with calves, moreso to keep him occupied more than anything. youd be surprised how much a cow with calves dragging on her will need just to keep going.

Bullocks

Miname wrote: »

i got the olld man one last autumn with calves, moreso to keep him occupied more than anything. youd be surprised how much a cow with calves dragging on her will need just to keep going.

Oh I know she will need feeding that's why I said to fatten her as best he could , I have one here with 3 calves and I reckon they drag more out of her than if she was being milked twice a day

GreatOaktree

If I abandon the idea of buy suck calves and go from weanlings what weight and price should I be aiming for keeping in mind I wanna sell in nov as I've no tractor.

Miname

scour the marts in january and look out for a few of the dairy bred reared calves, dont leave it till march when most lads will be looking.

Base price

No shortage of dairy farmers in Cavan. Go direct and buy ex farm you may be competing against lads buying for export but as Miname said try to buy in Jan or Feb before the export trade really gets going.
My advise for what it worth is to keep away from marts when buying calves. You're only buying in trouble.