Government must go

newparty

I feel country is in disaster state at the moment. In fact in much worse position than it was in 2008.
Properties is out of reach.
You can't make any money. Jobs don't pay. You can't find any extra income because part time jobs are not around. Even if you lucky to get some overtime income taxation system will make sure to strip you out of that.
Medical system is a disaster.
Finally we arrive at the state when fat cats enjoy 100 - 300 k a year (from budget money) while rest of population is encouraged to be happy on 22 - 28 k jobs. This is very strange solution to unemployment problem.
To my view government is not capable of running country and should be gone.

You'll get your chance in 12 to 15 Months time. Will you run as an Independent or join a party?

Beaner1

It's a generation war not a government issue. It's going to get a whole lot worse with the pension disaster down the line. Realistically you have only one options. Leave.

syklops

You know what they say, "A pessimist says 'Things are terrible, they can't get any worse', an optimist says 'Oh yes they can!".

The country was a lot worse off 3 years ago. And if the government was to go in the morning who would take their place?

syklops

syklops wrote: »

You know what they say, "A pessimist says 'Things are terrible, they can't get any worse', an optimist says 'Oh yes they can!".

The country was a lot worse off 3 years ago. And if the government was to go in the morning who would take their place?

"Newparty" would, so he would.

Tearin It Up

Beaner1 wrote: »

It's a generation war not a government issue. It's going to get a whole lot worse with the pension disaster down the line. Realistically you have only one options. Leave.

Go where?

syklops

Deleted User wrote: »

"Newparty" would, so he would.

Ah yes. #RebootIreland.

Kristopherus

newparty wrote: »

I feel country is in disaster state at the moment. In fact in much worse position than it was in 2008.
Properties is out of reach.
You can't make any money. Jobs don't pay. You can't find any extra income because part time jobs are not around. Even if you lucky to get some overtime income taxation system will make sure to strip you out of that.
Medical system is a disaster.
Finally we arrive at the state when fat cats enjoy 100 - 300 k a year (from budget money) while rest of population is encouraged to be happy on 22 - 28 k jobs. This is very strange solution to unemployment problem.
To my view government is not capable of running country and should be gone.

Take off the blindfolds, ffs and smell the roses. You did'nt by any chance notice how full the carparks at shopping centres were over the past 10 days. Recession, what recession !!!!!!

Eamondomc

Kristopherus wrote: »

Take off the blindfolds, ffs and smell the roses. You did'nt by any chance notice how full the carparks at shopping centres were over the past 10 days. Recession, what recession !!!!!!

My wife works in a retail outlet and yes spend was up this year.

redpower33

Kristopherus wrote: »

Take off the blindfolds, ffs and smell the roses. You did'nt by any chance notice how full the carparks at shopping centres were over the past 10 days. Recession, what recession !!!!!!

Couldnt agree more,alot of people in this country are delusional when it comes to the state of the country.You just had to spend a day in one of our cities over xmas and you would see that alot of people are better off than they realise or want to realise.

nice_guy80

redpower33 wrote: »

Couldnt agree more,alot of people in this country are delusional when it comes to the state of the country.You just had to spend a day in one of our cities over xmas and you would see that alot of people are better off than they realise or want to realise.

stuff bought on credit cards has to be paid for, eventually

nice_guy80

nice_guy80 wrote: »

stuff bought on credit cards has to be paid for, eventually

As the Country is finding out! What you borrow has to be paid back - with interest!

PDD

No, no they don't. It's a very very simple - remember these two things about debt, ability to pay and willingness to pay. If you have a debt and the debtor is either unable or unwilling to pay the debt then you have is nothing (why do you think bookies break legs rather than cracking skulls - coz cracked skulls can't pay up). If you have credit card debt and your willing to take a hit on your "credit rating" then you can walk away from it relatively easily as in most cases Credit Card companies sell on the debt.

Just like when for some reason the government willing paid unsecured bond-holders without having any legal obligation to do so bar some amorphous threat from the ECB about the boogey market. At that point Enda and every single other TD who voted for the bail out put the interests of the Euro, European Institutions and Continental European banks ahead of that of the Irish People. The social contract is broken and the country remains blissfully unaware. The country is full of coward's and fool's who'd rather be in-vogue than have a genuine thought for themselves.

And if you think that was an extortion racket wait until the TTIP is in place, then we will have our "Government", then European Institutions and Law above those and finally secret supra-national courts of "arbitration". The time for Ireland to act was during the crisis when the bailout was being forced through, Noonan should have said sure we'll do a bailout but the money comes from the ECB or we leave the Euro. We had all the cards to play and no intelligence or courage to put the Irish people first and if that affects relations with our European neighbours than so be it but a friend that intimidates, extorts and dictates is no friend at all. There is a case to be made that every single European country would be better off without the Euro in Ireland's case there is no doubt having the basic macro-economic tools such as setting interest rates would have assisted in a genuine recovery.

eire4

PDD wrote: »

No, no they don't. It's a very very simple - remember these two things about debt, ability to pay and willingness to pay. If you have a debt and the debtor is either unable or unwilling to pay the debt then you have is nothing (why do you think bookies break legs rather than cracking skulls - coz cracked skulls can't pay up). If you have credit card debt and your willing to take a hit on your "credit rating" then you can walk away from it relatively easily as in most cases Credit Card companies sell on the debt.

Just like when for some reason the government willing paid unsecured bond-holders without having any legal obligation to do so bar some amorphous threat from the ECB about the boogey market. At that point Enda and every single other TD who voted for the bail out put the interests of the Euro, European Institutions and Continental European banks ahead of that of the Irish People. The social contract is broken and the country remains blissfully unaware. The country is full of coward's and fool's who'd rather be in-vogue than have a genuine thought for themselves.

And if you think that was an extortion racket wait until the TTIP is in place, then we will have our "Government", then European Institutions and Law above those and finally secret supra-national courts of "arbitration". The time for Ireland to act was during the crisis when the bailout was being forced through, Noonan should have said sure we'll do a bailout but the money comes from the ECB or we leave the Euro. We had all the cards to play and no intelligence or courage to put the Irish people first and if that affects relations with our European neighbours than so be it but a friend that intimidates, extorts and dictates is no friend at all. There is a case to be made that every single European country would be better off without the Euro in Ireland's case there is no doubt having the basic macro-economic tools such as setting interest rates would have assisted in a genuine recovery.

You make a good point about this proposed TPP being a major problem. I must admit I have missed if our government has taken a position on the TPP.

CruelCoin

Kristopherus wrote: »

Take off the blindfolds, ffs and smell the roses. You did'nt by any chance notice how full the carparks at shopping centres were over the past 10 days. Recession, what recession !!!!!!

Our business had its best year in 5 years.

We normally put people on a 3-day week for 4 months of the year due to seasonaility. This year it was a single month.

What recession?

libra33

What is it with Irish people? So many Irish people fall victim to pessimism and draconian views of our economic views. I am not an optimist but I am a realist. Are you for real suggesting that we are now worse off than we were in 2008. Get a grip and lets look at the statistics.


We are by no means a stable economic entity nor are we politically stable entity but the progress we are making is steady and consistent. If you look at the example of Greece, I believe that we have done well to stabilise the economy and society as much as we have. Our adaptation to the circumstances which arose as a result of the economic crisis was good and we, the people of Ireland must be applauded for our efforts. We are a long way from returning to former glories but our reputation globally is slowly rebuilding, people have more money in their pockets and lets be honest Fine Gael are the best of a bad bunch.

A new party, is a feasible option but with a maximum 15 months to the next election a new party would have an untested manifesto and risky policies especially when it comes to economics. A strong new party with core policies and a moderate representation is essential for the next election but I feel they would be best in opposition. Given time to mature and develop policy the new party would be ready to go for the following election and to take power!

Fianna Fáil - Economic history is a disaster
Labour - Weak personalities and lack of passion
Sinn Féin - fairytale economics, no foreign investment, stagnant economy
Independents - Too many contrasting views
Fine Gael - Hardline and unpopular policies but they work

Uncle Ben

Kristopherus wrote: »

Take off the blindfolds, ffs and smell the roses. You did'nt by any chance notice how full the carparks at shopping centres were over the past 10 days. Recession, what recession !!!!!!

Shoplifters.

Uncle Ben

libra33 wrote: »

What is it with Irish people? So many Irish people fall victim to pessimism and draconian views of our economic views. I am not an optimist but I am a realist. Are you for real suggesting that we are now worse off than we were in 2008. Get a grip and lets look at the statistics.


We are by no means a stable economic entity nor are we politically stable entity but the progress we are making is steady and consistent. If you look at the example of Greece, I believe that we have done well to stabilise the economy and society as much as we have. Our adaptation to the circumstances which arose as a result of the economic crisis was good and we, the people of Ireland must be applauded for our efforts. We are a long way from returning to former glories but our reputation globally is slowly rebuilding, people have more money in their pockets and lets be honest Fine Gael are the best of a bad bunch.

A new party, is a feasible option but with a maximum 15 months to the next election a new party would have an untested manifesto and risky policies especially when it comes to economics. A strong new party with core policies and a moderate representation is essential for the next election but I feel they would be best in opposition. Given time to mature and develop policy the new party would be ready to go for the following election and to take power!

Fianna Fáil - Economic history is a disaster
Labour - Weak personalities and lack of passion
Sinn Féin - fairytale economics, no foreign investment, stagnant economy
Independents - Too many contrasting views
Fine Gael - Hardline and unpopular policies but they work

Frank Flannery couldn't put it better.

PDD

Is that you Frank?

PDD

Not entirely sure what he meant by "draconian views of our economic views. " but if he wants to talk about draconian economics lets talk about Keynesian economics? Lets talk about failed QE 1-5 in the US and when that faltered they passed the buck to Japan for Abenomics (only to wipe out Japan's reserves for the first time since WWII) and then on to the EU with its latest traunch of QE because even negative interest rates weren't have any effect. Plus its a nice political football to give to the national parliamentarians so they wave some nice new shinny "Europe is good mmkay" plaque around.

If you want to have a discussion on economics and wants to be a realist how about you start with admitting that the entire global financial system is based on some Keynesian fantasy and no one even Alan Greenspan can explain where the "model" went wrong. Maybe we should by being realistic about a fraudulent fractional reserve banking? How about we discuss the real effects on the world economy post Glass-Steagall and toxic financial products it spawned (such as derivatives who's market is now 1000's of multiples of global GDP)? How about being realistic and accepting that "the market" is a complete and utter fantasy (re high frequency trading or fixing rates e.g. LIBOR?)?

How about we talk about the reality that the Euro has nothing to do with economics and is simply a tool for political union which we have seen post Lisbon Treaty. How about a complete lack of any kind of foresight or willingness of this government or any previous governments to explore alternatives to a mono-culture in our currency systems?

"Our adaptation to the circumstances which arose as a result of the economic crisis was good" - so in your opinion the governments willingness to assume private banking debt as sovereign debt was a good thing? You have no moral objection to being asked to pay for someone else's mistake or rather your children and your children's children paying for someone else's mistakes? Perhaps you think it was acceptable that Trichet and the ECB bullied the Irish government into blindly guaranteeing the banks. Was our adaptation to the circumstances good when it took nearly 3 years to get a straight answer and sum total from the banks?

"Are you for real suggesting that we are now worse off than we were in 2008. Get a grip and lets look at the statistics." - I wouldn't suggest it I would state it as being a fact simply compare debt to GDP before 2008 and then compare debt to GDP after 2008. Perhaps your 'realistic' view of economics means more debt is double plus good.

As for our international reputation lark it has to do with only one thing FDI and the dual tax system we have here in Ireland. As soon as that is sorted (and it will be because of international pressures) you will see the majority of FDI move to eastern Europe as its a lower cost base. Perhaps you think an unprecedented level of debt on the state for a few years of FDI crumbs? In my opinion our international reputation is that of being a weak willed vasal sate of the EU but then again I' not subscriber to international and globalist propaganda.

libra33

libra33 wrote: »

Fine Gael - Hardline and unpopular policies but they work

Same can be said about the Nazi party.

PDD

LOL Yep the communists were pretty hard-line too - lets all go back to an agrarian society so we can feed ourselves.

Fianna Fáil - Economic history is a disaster

You just misspelt it, its Fianna Fail. And if their economic history is a disaster then so is Ireland's.

Labour - Weak personalities and lack of passion

Labour is lipstick on a pig. A pure PR stunt of no no we're not in the centre we're on the left. Of course their recent actions in government have shown their true ideology and complete lack of backbone.

Sinn Féin - fairytale economics, no foreign investment, stagnant economy

All of the above may be true but do you see any other political party putting the Irish citizens interest's firsts ahead of Europe? Is there even another major political party that questions the orthodoxy of Europe is good?

Independents - Too many contrasting views

Yes its called diversity and independent thinking which generally leads to a robust debate and an agreement by consensus - wait a minute that sounds awfully like democracy. The party whip is lauded as being a great Irish invention, in my opinion it is one of the most subversive idea's ever to be introduced into a democratic political systems as it replaces proportional representation (which is questionable claim at best) with an oligarchy. What's the point in electing an official if they can't even vote on issues based on a vote of conscience.

libra33

Look I am by no means suggesting that we have recovered and I think my post was misinterpreted. I don't think we are worse off now than we were in 2008. In terms of economic policy I would put my faith in Fine Gael before any of the others.

My statement regarding their harsh but effective policies is blown out of proportion by comparing them to the Nazis and the communists. Fianna Fails economic history as a while has been poor let's be honest. Sinn Fein claim to put the people first which is brilliant in theory but in practice easily prove to be a fallacy. As for independents I wasn't undermining democracy by pointing to their stark differences but rather questioning whether this would effect their ability to come to decisions.

It is time for a new party, no doubt but my argument is that it will need to mature before taking power.