Opening dates for Civil Service recruitment 2015

ravingitup

My question is, is it possible to know with any degree of certainty, whether or when, stage one recruitment will open again for graduate positions in the Civil Service in 2015? Is there any time of the year that they usually do open?

I'm new to applying for graduate positions in the Civil Service as I only graduated recently (I was abroad and wasn't aware that they opened in 2014 until the deadlines had passed) and I'm aware some of the positions are recruiting now, however with the exception of Executive Officer, none are still open (at the first stage) for recruitment.

I'm looking particularly at Administrative Officer (AO), Clerical Officer (CO), Third Secretary (Junior Diplomat) and Judicial Assistanships. Any help, be it speculative or otherwise, would be very helpful as I'd like to apply for these positions in the new year.

Thanks!

Tarzana2

Why not apply for EO? Why would you be interested in CO over it? EO is a higher grade with more responsibility and pay.

ravingitup

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Why not apply for EO? Why would you be interested in CO over it? EO is a higher grade with more responsibility and pay.

I would definitely take EO over it and AO over EO, but I suppose I just want to keep my options open, and besides, wouldn't it be great to have the luxury of choice. CO wouldn't be ideal as it's the lowest entry grade, but if it opened again, I'd apply and go from there.

Tarzana2

ravingitup wrote: »

I would definitely take EO over it and AO over EO, but I suppose I just want to keep my options open, and besides, wouldn't it be great to have the luxury of choice. CO wouldn't be ideal as it's the lowest entry grade, but if it opened again, I'd apply and go from there.

Beware, competition is fierce! You don't stroll into these jobs anymore.

The_Conductor

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Beware, competition is fierce! You don't stroll into these jobs anymore.

Aside from a brief spell in the early 1980s- when the then government saw the civil service as a dumping ground for manipulating unemployment statistics- it has never been the case that you could stroll into a civil service job. With the advent of the PAS- any sort of lobbying (by TDs or whoever) on behalf of constituents (and believe you me- it happened a lot more than politicians would have you believe)- became just cause for summarily disqualifying candidates.

Anyone who imagines they can stroll into a civil service job- has another thing coming.........

Holysock

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Beware, competition is fierce! You don't stroll into these jobs anymore.

Totally agree. OP I wouldn't make it your goal to get one of these jobs, apply when it opens again but don't bank on getting it.

I have a first class degree and didn't get through the first stage of the AO. They only brought the first 115 to the next stage, based entirely on an online assessment. Didn't get the CO first time around either and only now sitting the tests after PAS called the second group. I've been a TCO for almost 8 months but your experience doesn't count, you have to ace these online assessments. Add to that that the recruitment process takes months.

ravingitup

Holysock wrote: »

Totally agree. OP I wouldn't make it your goal to get one of these jobs, apply when it opens again but don't bank on getting it.

I have a first class degree and didn't get through the first stage of the AO. They only brought the first 115 to the next stage, based entirely on an online assessment. Didn't get the CO first time around either and only now sitting the tests after PAS called the second group. I've been a TCO for almost 8 months but your experience doesn't count, you have to ace these online assessments. Add to that that the recruitment process takes months.

Thanks for the reply, Hollysock. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not banking on getting these jobs at all. I know how hard it is to get in these days. I just wanted to apply as if you aren't in it, you can't win it. They are just another option for graduates to apply for, and that's how I'm treating it.

I have two friends who recently were appointed AO's (both graduated last year, like myself) so that's what got me thinking - 'Well, if X can get in (who wasn't a high-flyer by any means in my class), well maybe I can too'. That being said, I am aware of the online tests being the dealbreaker for these jobs, and as a Law graduate, I feel disillusioned. My numerical/spatial reasoning would be average at best, with my overwhelming strength being verbal reasoning and I feel like because of my weakness at maths, I might never even get to interview stage - something that would really annoy me as it is at interviews that I feel more comfortable.

The_Conductor

You are right- if you're not in, you can't win. The verbal and numeracy exams are ridiculously blunt instruments- that exclude a large number of people who would have made excellent employees. At the end of the day- there has to be some manner of determining how to cull applicants down to an acceptable number- and nuking people for seemingly arbitray reasons isn't really fair- but it is equally unfair on everyone........

As to when there might be another competition- its a bit of how long is a piece of rope- question......... The recruitment embargo is over. However- the effects of the embargo- and the 1-in-6 replacement policy- for most of the decade before the embargo- is that the civil service has aged to quite a remarkable extent. Some Departments have fewer than 1% of staff under the age of 30, and only 5-6% in the 30-40 year age group- with the average age in the civil service is now in the 50s. The entire civil service- in so far as it exists as an organisation going forwards- will most probably have to be replaced on age grounds alone- within the next 10-12 years. There will be immediate backfilling of critical posts (including clerical posts)- after that- it will be up to each HOD to argue their case for staff.

If we have 20-30k people going for each grade compeition (which is the case)- even if they do only put x number of people on each panel- the panels could be extended- for quite some time.

Normally- a panel has a 12 month lifespan- that is recruitment for a new panel would commence 12 months after a panel is constituted. So- recruitment for AO- would be 12 months after the interviews for the current panel are over- and those on the panel are placed. (In some cases in internal competitions- this differs).

Specialised competitions- including disciplines- such as law- which you yourself have- are often held randomly out of the blue- so you do really need to bookmark the Public Jobs website- and check it on a regular basis- because these do come up.

You can pop into your PAS profile- and sign up for e-mail alerts for certain categories of jobs- like those confined to graduates- or those confined to local authorities etc- and get e-mail alerts automatically- when posts are uploaded. I'd suggest checking on a regular basis, nonetheless.

Tarzana2

Rather selfishly, I love that the numerical components of aptitude tests are given as much weight, as I usually do well in them and many people often don't.

The_Conductor

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Rather selfishly, I love that the numerical components of aptitude tests are given as much weight, as I usually do well in them and many people often don't.

Thats only happened in the Public sector ones- in the last 12 months.
Prior to that- it was pass the numeracy- then dump it- and your panel place would be determined solely on the basis of the verbal and the work scenario test. This was seen to be a manner of implementing defacto gender quotas- as females were traditionally less likely to have taken maths to higher levels than men. Obviously this is no longer the case- more females now do honors math than males- which is quite a turnaround........

There is a stated policy of trying to increase female participation in the upper echolons of the public sector- where females are massively under-represented- and it is thought there may be an inverse attempt to encourage males at the CO entry point- where over 80% of staff are female..........

It is nice that all your skills- both verbal and numerical are enumerated- however, its still one hell of a blunt tool- and more a measure of how fast you can zoom through a test- than a measure of how you would perform under normal circumstances.........

Tarzana2

The_Conductor wrote: »

Thats only happened in the Public sector ones- in the last 12 months.

I know, you've said this numerous times before. I only applied to the civil service for the last 12 months so what went before isn't really of any relevance to me. I'm delighted they are now taking numeracy into account again, I can't belief how undervalued a skill it is in Ireland.

I know it's a blunt tool but I'm not sure I agree that showing you can think accurately under pressure is valueless, I think it's a great skill to have actually.

adrian_2000

A quick question as a matter of general opinion since you folks seem to be in the know on this front: I'm currently in the middle of the application process for EO, and was wondering do you think it would be possible to move within the civil service or am I better off waiting for Junior Diplomat to open up again? That's really the position I want and I made it to the final round of interviews last time, and know where I slipped up. I figured having some experience in the civil service might help, but would it be more difficult to move within the service? Is there a separate applications process?

Cliona2012

Hi
Anyone have any ideas when 2016 recruitment will start?
Or when application window opens?

The_Conductor

Cliona2012 wrote: »

Hi
Anyone have any ideas when 2016 recruitment will start?
Or when application window opens?

At what grade?
There is HEO competition on the immediate horizon- it was supposed to have happened before Christmas but PAS were too busy to get it up and running.
Presumably it'll be announced at some stage this month- with the now accepted 1:1:1 recruitment ratios (External:Interdepartmental:Internal). The agreement is that its backdated 6 months- so if there were a rake of internal promotions- they'd have to have a commensurate number of external or interdepartmental recruitees- before any internal promotions would occur.

HEO is the only general service grade civil service competition that most of us are expecting imminently- however, the numbers from it would reasonably be expected to be a fraction of CO/EO/AO recruitments.........

As for the other grades- the agreement is the panel(s) have a 12 month lifespan from date of first appoinment. It did become established practice to keep rolling this down the road- however- its likely they'll row back on this in light of our changed economic circumstances. Aka- they will likely refresh the panels faster than they might have done at any stage in the preceding 15 years- by actually sticking to the stated lifespans of the panels.

Zipppy

The_Conductor wrote: »

At what grade?
There is HEO competition on the immediate horizon- it was supposed to have happened before Christmas but PAS were too busy to get it up and running.
Presumably it'll be announced at some stage this month- with the now accepted 1:1:1 recruitment ratios (External:Interdepartmental:Internal). The agreement is that its backdated 6 months- so if there were a rake of internal promotions- they'd have to have a commensurate number of external or interdepartmental recruitees- before any internal promotions would occur.

HEO is the only general service grade civil service competition that most of us are expecting imminently- however, the numbers from it would reasonably be expected to be a fraction of CO/EO/AO recruitments.........

As for the other grades- the agreement is the panel(s) have a 12 month lifespan from date of first appoinment. It did become established practice to keep rolling this down the road- however- its likely they'll row back on this in light of our changed economic circumstances. Aka- they will likely refresh the panels faster than they might have done at any stage in the preceding 15 years- by actually sticking to the stated lifespans of the panels.

External HEO?
I didnt know that was opened up externally?

The_Conductor

Zipppy wrote: »

External HEO?
I didnt know that was opened up externally?

Presumably- in the same manner they've opened up AP/PO etc- which traditionally were solely promotional grades.

McSween

Although I am applying for other jobs I am keeping my 2015 submission in the back of my mind. I will be home in February. Do you think 2015 will last much longer than that? I was down the pecking order for that period.

BabySlam

As far as I know you can get the website to email you when vacancies in your field come up. its publicjobs.ie or gradpublicjobs.ie

The_Conductor

McSween wrote: »

Although I am applying for other jobs I am keeping my 2015 submission in the back of my mind. I will be home in February. Do you think 2015 will last much longer than that? I was down the pecking order for that period.

It depends on which panel you're on- and how its moving. However- the prescribed lifespan of a panel is 1 year from the date of first appointment from the panel (i.e. not from when the competition itself was called). This timescale has been widely ignored over the past decade- with one infamous panel who placed a person almost 11 years after the panel was first constituted.........

If you're way down the pecking order- I'd not make any assumptions at all- I'd just keep on going- and keep an eye on Publicjobs/Gradpublicjobs at least once a week.

Note- even if you haven't heard anything- it makes sense to log onto your profile and check to see if you have any messages in your inbox, periodically.

gazzer

The_Conductor wrote: »

At what grade?
There is HEO competition on the immediate horizon- it was supposed to have happened before Christmas but PAS were too busy to get it up and running.
Presumably it'll be announced at some stage this month- with the now accepted 1:1:1 recruitment ratios (External:Interdepartmental:Internal). The agreement is that its backdated 6 months- so if there were a rake of internal promotions- they'd have to have a commensurate number of external or interdepartmental recruitees- before any internal promotions would occur.
.

Just wondering if anybody has heard about more about this upcoming HEO competition?

gazzer

Sorry for bumping this thread again but just wondering has anybody heard when the HEO competition is being announced. I am hearing plenty of rumours in my Department but it seems to be a case of Chinese Whispers. Is the competition actually happening? Thanks.