How do pro-whip, pro-IW posters feel about this?

hatrickpatrick

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/senator-mark-daly-expelled-from-fianna-fáil-parliamentary-party-for-defying-whip-on-water-bill-1.2045780

FF senator has been expelled from the party after voting in favour of the new IW bill, defying the party whip which mandated a no vote.

Seeing as those who are pro-IW tend to line up with those who are pro-whip (accepting that there are several exceptions, of course), I'm just wondering which of the two issues takes priority here? Could this particular issue perhaps illustrate to some of those people exactly why the party whip is disastrously damaging to parliament?

For the record, I oppose the IW bill and I'd vote against someone who voted in favour of it, but I commend this man's courage in voting as he saw fit as opposed to how he was instructed, and being willing to such a ridiculous price. We need more such politicians.

So which issue takes priority?

GoldFour4

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/senator-mark-daly-expelled-from-fianna-fáil-parliamentary-party-for-defying-whip-on-water-bill-1.2045780

FF senator has been expelled from the party after voting in favour of the new IW bill, defying the party whip which mandated a no vote.

Seeing as those who are pro-IW tend to line up with those who are pro-whip (accepting that there are several exceptions, of course), I'm just wondering which of the two issues takes priority here? Could this particular issue perhaps illustrate to some of those people exactly why the party whip is disastrously damaging to parliament?

For the record, I oppose the IW bill and I'd vote against someone who voted in favour of it, but I commend this man's courage in voting as he saw fit as opposed to how he was instructed, and being willing to such a ridiculous price. We need more such politicians.

So which issue takes priority?

He was expelled for voting against the Whip on a motion about how the bill was debated, not the bill itself. He wanted the debate to continue past 3am, the government and FF didn't. That's what he voted against the whip on.

valor rorghulis

Wow that was quite a minor whip infringement to be expelled over.

I'm pro-IW as a concept and anti-whip. Think your IW/whip assumption (even with cavaet) is a tad lunatic hp

Scofflaw

He was expelled for voting against the Whip on a motion about how the bill was debated, not the bill itself. He wanted the debate to continue past 3am, the government and FF didn't. That's what he voted against the whip on.

Good illustration of the rather farcical tightness of the whip system here - to expel someone over the vote itself would be reasonable enough in most party-based democracies, but to expel them over a procedural issue!

cordially,
Scofflaw

johnnyskeleton

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/senator-mark-daly-expelled-from-fianna-fáil-parliamentary-party-for-defying-whip-on-water-bill-1.2045780

FF senator has been expelled from the party after voting in favour of the new IW bill, defying the party whip which mandated a no vote.

Seeing as those who are pro-IW tend to line up with those who are pro-whip (accepting that there are several exceptions, of course), I'm just wondering which of the two issues takes priority here? Could this particular issue perhaps illustrate to some of those people exactly why the party whip is disastrously damaging to parliament?

For the record, I oppose the IW bill and I'd vote against someone who voted in favour of it, but I commend this man's courage in voting as he saw fit as opposed to how he was instructed, and being willing to such a ridiculous price. We need more such politicians.

So which issue takes priority?

Am i putting words in your mouth if I read your assumption that people who are pro IW to be pro whip to mean that you assume anyone who agrees with IW because of party loyalty and not on any other rational basis?

For me, Im pro water charges but anti Irish Water as a company(insofar as it is an overbloated quango). Its a shame that the legitimate criticisms of Irish Water have been overshadowed by the "no way we wont pay" crowd because as taxes go its great to have some that:
-Directly go towards the service they relate to and not just into the central exchequer black hole;
-Are based partially on use rather than how hard you work;
- can be avkided altogether if you can get it cheaper in the private sector.

If only health/unemployment insurance worked in the same way!