Our baby wont stop barking

Split · 31-12-2014 1:25am #1

Hi Folks .

Maybe you can offer some advice as we are really at the end of our tether and completely out of options . Complaint has been made to both dog warden and now a threat of civil action by our neighbours .

Our 4 year old dog non stop barks no matter where he is - both indoors and outdoors even when we are here. This is not a new issue and we have worked non stop on it but now things are out of hand .Just now he is having his dinner and barking .
He lives with 2 other dogs aged 12 who literally just ignore it .

Things we have done or continue to do -
praise good behavior , ignore bad
corrected bad or distracted
behaviorist recommended by the local rescue
Kong
vet (twice)
adapil diffuser
sonic sound emitter

He is a chihuahua X terrier , rescued at 6 weeks (not by choice but farmer was threatening to drown all the pups ) walked up to 3 times a day . loads of toys that he does play with us .

If we cannot sort this our baby will have to go as everyone is upset with us and the dog at this point . Any suggestions appreciated

Nody · 31-12-2014 6:45am

But have you figured out why he's barking yet? What's the trigger?

braddun · 31-12-2014 6:48am

http://www.cesarsway.com/tips/dogtraining/Dog-Barking-101

Nody · 31-12-2014 6:51am

braddun wrote: »

http://www.cesarsway.com/tips/dogtraining/Dog-Barking-101

Don't bother go there for the advice unless you want to make things worse. He's been confirmed multiple times to be a complete and utter waste of time. He's not trained, he's regularly attacked and uses methods which have been proven not to work (bark collar, leader of the pack etc.) and no certified behaviorist would even consider using and for good reason. He makes good TV basically and that's it...

Split · 31-12-2014 11:29am

Nody wrote: »

But have you figured out why he's barking yet? What's the trigger?

To be honest and not to sound blunt . Everything :mad:

Split · 31-12-2014 11:34am

I would never follow Caesar as I was told that his techniques are damaging . Am open to other options ?

Nody wrote: »

Don't bother go there for the advice unless you want to make things worse. He's been confirmed multiple times to be a complete and utter waste of time. He's not trained, he's regularly attacked and uses methods which have been proven not to work (bark collar, leader of the pack etc.) and no certified behaviorist would even consider using and for good reason. He makes good TV basically and that's it...

Raminahobbin · 31-12-2014 11:49am

I saw this thread on the front page and got really confused until I saw it was Animals and Pets forum.

Was picturing a demonic baby barking it's head off :pac:

OP, does your dog have a crate? Does he seem to be a highly strung/nervous dog in general? My dog can get a bit anxious about stuff on a daily basis, like she doesn't know where she's supposed to be when stuff is happening. I notice an immediate relax in her when she has a bed or crate to go into, positioned in the same room as everyone else, so that she can watch stuff going on around her and knows where she's supposed to be, if that makes sense.

deadwood85 · 31-12-2014 12:06pm

Unfortunately your last chance will be a shock collar,it hurts the first time but it does work.

After the first use my dog stopped never had to use it since then,she still barks at normal stuff but the nuisance barking stopped.

People on here will moan about it but I was in the same situation use it or give up the dog.Good luck

Ralf and Florian · 01-01-2015 9:45am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zuv4v8c3xZk

Arbiter of Good Taste · 01-01-2015 11:18am

OP you say he is walked up to three times a day? Are you walking him enough? "Up to" may sometimes only be one short walk a day. I'm not being judgemental. I know that sometimes it's hard to get enough walks in.

You have two other dogs, but they are elderly. Would you consider putting him in day care for a day or two a week? We have Lola in day care three times a week and it really makes a difference. There are plenty of dogs of all ages to play with and it really wears her out. We have really noticed the difference the last two weeks as the day care has been closed for Xmas. She's been barking at everything and really kmisbehaving.

ShaShaBear · 01-01-2015 3:49pm

deadwood85 wrote: »

Unfortunately your last chance will be a shock collar,it hurts the first time but it does work.

After the first use my dog stopped never had to use it since then,she still barks at normal stuff but the nuisance barking stopped.

People on here will moan about it but I was in the same situation use it or give up the dog.Good luck

If he still barks, then it clearly doesn't work.

OP, please don't get a shock collar, physically abusing your dog isn't going to help matters.

aaakev · 01-01-2015 4:15pm

ShaShaBear wrote: »

If he still barks, then it clearly doesn't work.

OP, please don't get a shock collar, physically abusing your dog isn't going to help matters.

Did you even bother to read the whole post? He said the nuisance barking stopped.

Op iv used a shock collar too and had good success

ShaShaBear · 01-01-2015 4:46pm

aaakev wrote: »

Did you even bother to read the whole post? He said the nuisance barking stopped.

Op iv used a shock collar too and had good success

Of course I did, but the dog isn't going to understand which barking is a nuisance and which isn't. The dog still barks. Punishment to achieve any results isn't usually the way to go on this forum. Your dog might stop barking, but he could also show signs of aggression every time someone touches his neck, or you could get dogs that end up so demented with fear that they need to be rehabilitated in a totally new environment because they end up so mentally scarred.

Graces7 · 03-01-2015 6:57am

oP.. great sympathy here. One of my family has four chis and chi terrier mix and they are non stop barkers. It comes with the breed. Like you they tried everything; you have done so well! Finally they had three debarked and it is perfect. They still think they are " talking" but they are not creating a nuisance and it is far less stressful and damaging than the current situation. They are still working with the the fourth chi cross but will be happy to go down that route with him. These are professional dog people so to be trusted. They say a loud NO re the shock collar. You need to find a vet who knows what he is doing ... Far better than what is happening now. I hear the fourth wee dog on the phone and it is such a shrill piercing bark it makes one wince..

Markcheese · 03-01-2015 7:48am

ShaShaBear wrote: »

If he still barks, then it clearly doesn't work.

OP, please don't get a shock collar, physically abusing your dog isn't going to help matters.

If it's last chance saloon - ! !

Jen Pigs Fly · 03-01-2015 8:49am

Graces7 wrote: »

oP.. great sympathy here. One of my family has four chis and chi terrier mix and they are non stop barkers. It comes with the breed. Like you they tried everything; you have done so well! Finally they had three debarked and it is perfect. They still think they are " talking" but they are not creating a nuisance and it is far less stressful and damaging than the current situation. They are still working with the the fourth chi cross but will be happy to go down that route with him. These are professional dog people so to be trusted. They say a loud NO re the shock collar. You need to find a vet who knows what he is doing ... Far better than what is happening now. I hear the fourth wee dog on the phone and it is such a shrill piercing bark it makes one wince..

You are honestly suggesting debarking? :eek:
Op don't follow this advice, debarking would rank very high on what would create a very psychologically damaged dog ...

borderlinemeath · 03-01-2015 11:07am

Graces7 wrote: »

oP.. great sympathy here. One of my family has four chis and chi terrier mix and they are non stop barkers. It comes with the breed. Like you they tried everything; you have done so well! Finally they had three debarked and it is perfect. They still think they are " talking" but they are not creating a nuisance and it is far less stressful and damaging than the current situation. They are still working with the the fourth chi cross but will be happy to go down that route with him. These are professional dog people so to be trusted. They say a loud NO re the shock collar. You need to find a vet who knows what he is doing ... Far better than what is happening now. I hear the fourth wee dog on the phone and it is such a shrill piercing bark it makes one wince..

:eek::eek:

"Professional Dog People"?? I really don't think so.

I cannot believe somebody would advocate debarking a dog as a solution. I know that sometimes it happens in the US by court order but to be "happy" to use it as a solution is insane. I don't think there is a vet in Ireland that would happily carry out this procedure anyway. Rehoming the dog would be far higher on the list than something as barbaric as this.

OP, you say everything is triggering the dog. When does he not bark? Is he ever at ease and quiet? Chis love burying themselves in blankets and making a little "den" for themselves, do you have a crate or a pen for him that he can bury himself in? Rather than a bed a few cheap Penneys fleecy blankets might work. If he's under the blankets maybe he won't see any of his triggers and you might get a bit of peaceful time.

Graces7 · 03-01-2015 6:58pm

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

You are honestly suggesting debarking? :eek:
Op don't follow this advice, debarking would rank very high on what would create a very psychologically damaged dog ...

We have three dogs say else...
Yes honestly suggesting this. How would it damage a dog? It can still make sound after all...

Graces7 · 03-01-2015 7:04pm

borderlinemeath wrote: »

:eek::eek:

"Professional Dog People"?? I really don't think so.

I cannot believe somebody would advocate debarking a dog as a solution. I know that sometimes it happens in the US by court order but to be "happy" to use it as a solution is insane. I don't think there is a vet in Ireland that would happily carry out this procedure anyway. Rehoming the dog would be far higher on the list than something as barbaric as this.

OP, you say everything is triggering the dog. When does he not bark? Is he ever at ease and quiet? Chis love burying themselves in blankets and making a little "den" for themselves, do you have a crate or a pen for him that he can bury himself in? Rather than a bed a few cheap Penneys fleecy blankets might work. If he's under the blankets maybe he won't see any of his triggers and you might get a bit of peaceful time.

It i far from barbaric.. perhaps define barbaric? or define how this can damage a dog? and far less traumatic than what is happening with stress levels... ah but this IS Ireland, so far behind the times. So anti anything new and different... It was by the way carefully thought about etc and the dogs are perfectly happy and well adjusted and in their own homes Interesting and offensive that you choose to insult! So backwards and immature as so often in this benighted country! You need to research this issue fully and maybe grow some. And yes professional and highly respected people .

Graces7 · 03-01-2015 7:04pm

borderlinemeath wrote: »

:eek::eek:

"Professional Dog People"?? I really don't think so.

I cannot believe somebody would advocate debarking a dog as a solution. I know that sometimes it happens in the US by court order but to be "happy" to use it as a solution is insane. I don't think there is a vet in Ireland that would happily carry out this procedure anyway. Rehoming the dog would be far higher on the list than something as barbaric as this.

OP, you say everything is triggering the dog. When does he not bark? Is he ever at ease and quiet? Chis love burying themselves in blankets and making a little "den" for themselves, do you have a crate or a pen for him that he can bury himself in? Rather than a bed a few cheap Penneys fleecy blankets might work. If he's under the blankets maybe he won't see any of his triggers and you might get a bit of peaceful time.

It i far from barbaric.. perhaps define barbaric? or define how this can damage a dog? and far less traumatic than what is happening with stress levels... ah but this IS Ireland, so far behind the times. So anti anything new and different... It was by the way carefully thought about etc and the dogs are perfectly happy and well adjusted and in their own homes Interesting and offensive that you choose to insult! So backwards and immature as so often in this benighted country! You need to research this issue fully and maybe grow some. And yes professional and highly respected people . OVER and OUT from me on this as your post really is so way out even for Ireland....which is saying something! Bye bye

Graces7 · 03-01-2015 7:27pm

For your education.......http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/article/debarking-bark-softening-myths-and-facts plenty more real facts on google! Learn and digest..

DBB · 03-01-2015 8:47pm

Graces7, give it a rest.
I'm out attempting to have a life tonight, so I'm closing this thread until tomorrow when I can better deal with the messing/insulting/trolling.
Thanks,
DBB

DBB · 04-01-2015 1:13pm

Graces7 wrote: »

It i far from barbaric.. perhaps define barbaric? or define how this can damage a dog?

Your linking to advice from a random lady who breeds dogs, but who has no express expertise nor qualification in animal health or welfare, is entirely unconvincing given the lack of weight such a contributor brings to a discussion such as this. Anyone can write anything on their little blogs. Expert and professional this does not make them, unless they have the credentials to show it. Being a breeder in a country that's hell-bent on invasive cosmetic surgery on pets does not cut it, I'm afraid.
Au contraire, the professional, qualified opinion of a number of august, well-respected veterinary, animal health and animal welfare organisations is that debarking is inhumane and unacceptable, in some cases only acceptable if all else has failed. As it happens, despite the OP's opening post, by no means have all avenues been explored in their case.
Having done a quick Google search myself, I was struck by the number of research papers and policy documents of veterinary and welfare organisations which explicitly define debarking as cruel and unnecessary, and not without considerable risk.
To save me linking to each and every one, this peer-reviewed article sums up a fair amount:

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/LiteratureReviews/Pages/Canine-Devocalization-Backgrounder.aspx?mode=full

I think the vital, vital message to take from this article is that debarking, just like physical punishment, does not remove the dog's motivation nor emotional status that is causing the problem in the first place.
It is vitally important to do so to really address this issue (as it is with all behavioural issues), rather than simply and lazily putting a bandage on the wound, inhibiting the symptoms rather than finding a cure. In this case, risky and invasive surgery.
We also need to remember that there is a fair mountain of research coming out of Europe and the US that has thus far only scratched the surface of how important a dog's bark is to it, not only as a communicative device, but as a behaviour that allows dogs to define themselves as individuals. Removal of their vocal abilities (and please note that successful loss-of-volume can only be guaranteed upon complete removal of the vocal cords) is a blunt axe indeed, and brings to a whole new level the damage we've done to dog welfare by allowing the operation to done for anything other than health reasons.

ah but this IS Ireland, so far behind the times. So anti anything new and different... So backwards and immature as so often in this benighted country! You need to research this issue fully and maybe grow some... OVER and OUT from me on this as your post really is so way out even for Ireland....which is saying something!

With respect, coming onto an Irish forum to belittle and complain about said country, a country that supports you and in which you have chosen to live, is contemptible.
Furthermore, allow me to reciprocate for your education, as my pedantic side must correct your use of "over and out". There is no such expression used on the airways by trained users. It's either "over", or "out". But is never both together.

DBB · 04-01-2015 1:29pm

Interesting and offensive that you choose to insult!

Now, graces7, with mod hat on. Nobody insulted you. If you feel they did, you did not report it. On the contrary, you managed to back-seat moderate, to soap-box and advocate a practice that is considered cruel by some of the finest animal health and welfare organisations in the world, and to insult every Irish person who uses this Irish forum on this Irish site.
It didn't take long for you to become once again disruptive when you made this latest return to this forum.
So, here's the deal. When you return, be it hours, days, weeks or months from now, and under whatever username you choose to use, if you cause the slightest whiff of disruption again, and cause anything near the avalanche of reported posts your posts elicited in this thread, you will be permanently banned.
As it is, you are not to contribute to this thread any further.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

splitcro · 04-01-2015 9:33pm

Split wrote: »

Hi Folks .

Maybe you can offer some advice as we are really at the end of our tether and completely out of options . Complaint has been made to both dog warden and now a threat of civil action by our neighbours .

Our 4 year old dog non stop barks no matter where he is - both indoors and outdoors even when we are here. This is not a new issue and we have worked non stop on it but now things are out of hand .Just now he is having his dinner and barking .
He lives with 2 other dogs aged 12 who literally just ignore it .

Things we have done or continue to do -
praise good behavior , ignore bad
corrected bad or distracted
behaviorist recommended by the local rescue
Kong
vet (twice)
adapil diffuser
sonic sound emitter

He is a chihuahua X terrier , rescued at 6 weeks (not by choice but farmer was threatening to drown all the pups ) walked up to 3 times a day . loads of toys that he does play with us .

If we cannot sort this our baby will have to go as everyone is upset with us and the dog at this point . Any suggestions appreciated

I was asking fellows on this forum about this problem since I am coming to Ireland in about one month with two small dogs which never barks and behave totally good...But I was worried what if they bark and disturb a neighbours around...I get two advices, first go to kennel (?) and second hire a dog walker (?)....Anyway, since I have dog I wish you a lot of sucess and hope that you will do something with this....I knew once one old dog trainer from Rijeka Croatia, he used to train dogs not to bark when noone's home....he tie them to a long leash and go outside waiting in front of the dors, every time they start to bark he just pull it, like a Cesar Milan was doing....he was very successful, but as I see your dog is barking always, not only when alone....

DBB · 04-01-2015 10:06pm

splitcro wrote: »

I knew once one old dog trainer from Rijeka Croatia, he used to train dogs not to bark when noone's home....he tie them to a long leash and go outside waiting in front of the dors, every time they start to bark he just pull it, like a Cesar Milan was doing....he was very successful, but as I see your dog is barking always, not only when alone....

Ah splitcro! Advising Cesar Milan's methods to a thread like this is going to fan flames. The method you describe is yet another Milan-esque method of using force, startle, pain, and fear to suppress the behaviour, rather than addressing why the dog is barking. It is rare indeed for Milan to actually try to understand the why of behaviours, he and his equally unqualified followers just punish the symptoms instead.
A disaster for dogs, particularly the many that nobody hears about (conveniently) that are devastated by such rough treatment.

daUbiq · 04-01-2015 10:07pm

Graces7 wrote: »

oP.. great sympathy here. One of my family has four chis and chi terrier mix and they are non stop barkers. It comes with the breed. Like you they tried everything; you have done so well! Finally they had three debarked and it is perfect. They still think they are " talking" but they are not creating a nuisance and it is far less stressful and damaging than the current situation. They are still working with the the fourth chi cross but will be happy to go down that route with him. These are professional dog people so to be trusted. They say a loud NO re the shock collar. You need to find a vet who knows what he is doing ... Far better than what is happening now. I hear the fourth wee dog on the phone and it is such a shrill piercing bark it makes one wince..

What a load of ****e! De-barking? Professional dog people? [Mod edit] This is madness.

<snip>

DBB · 04-01-2015 10:38pm

Folks, please don't engage graces7 any further in this thread, as this poster no longer has the right of reply.
DaUbiq, I have edited your post accordingly.
Thanks,
DBB

Split · 12-02-2015 1:50am

Nearly afraid to post here in case this nonsense starts again however just to come back with an update .

Have spoken with 2 dog trainers , met 1 and were given methods to follow with a varying degree of success . We finally found out two of his triggers (by accident) - Sirens ! and we live on a hospital road . He can obviously hear them when we cannot and is reactive to them. Second one which is a little stranger - our neighbour has a sonic mouse/rat alarm . When its plugged out he barks less - I did suggest if they just leave it plugged out they would not have to complain to the council dog warden or the district court .

On top of the training methods ,he is on some homeopathic relaxers which we hope will reduce his anxiety around noises etc.

Not giving up on the little man even though he is a little menace but hoping with this combo we can at least rebuild a relationship with the neighbours .
Thanks for the pm's and positive input and sorry if my question caused some squabbling

gormdubhgorm · 08-05-2019 10:57am

Would the problem be that the dog is being treated as a 'Baby' and not a dog?

borderlinemeath · 08-05-2019 11:33am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Would the problem be that the dog is being treated as a 'Baby' and not a dog?

It's hardly a baby anymore. The thread is over 4 years old. Middle aged dog maybe.

Our baby wont stop barking

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