Not allowed work

beaugester

Hi,

I am looking for some advice please. I have recently been out of work for 3 weeks, due to an odd ball condition called pericarditis which meant I couldn't move around much without getting chest pain. I was certed out by the hospital until yesterday (8th Dec - 29 Dec) getting weekly certs from them after ECGs, Echos etc. I contacted my employer Monday 29th re being fit to work and was told I wasn't needed until next week. I am not being paid, and obviously don't have sick certs either to claim from social welfare. I wrote to my boss on the Monday after receiving the text not to come in (he didn't answer the phone) basically saying in the email he had agreed to me working 5 days per week, I am fit to work and what was he going to do about that? (obviously I worded it better!). I got an unpleasant email last night which made judicious use of the CAPS LOCK button, telling me basically, he had to make other arrangements and not to be bothering him....in other words F*&k off! He also said he would meet me next week to "reevaluate where we go from here". I am working here since mid June and this was first time to be ill. I have been given no warnings or anything like that (also no contract either so don't know if that's relevant). Basically I'm in limbo now until next week with no pay check and am wondering what my options are.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

smcgiff

beaugester wrote: »

Hi,

I am looking for some advice please. I have recently been out of work for 3 weeks, due to an odd ball condition called pericarditis which meant I couldn't move around much without getting chest pain. I was certed out by the hospital until yesterday (8th Dec - 29 Dec) getting weekly certs from them after ECGs, Echos etc. I contacted my employer Monday 29th re being fit to work and was told I wasn't needed until next week. I am not being paid, and obviously don't have sick certs either to claim from social welfare. I wrote to my boss on the Monday after receiving the text not to come in (he didn't answer the phone) basically saying in the email he had agreed to me working 5 days per week, I am fit to work and what was he going to do about that? (obviously I worded it better!). I got an unpleasant email last night which made judicious use of the CAPS LOCK button, telling me basically, he had to make other arrangements and not to be bothering him....in other words F*&k off! He also said he would meet me next week to "reevaluate where we go from here". I am working here since mid June and this was first time to be ill. I have been given no warnings or anything like that (also no contract either so don't know if that's relevant). Basically I'm in limbo now until next week with no pay check and am wondering what my options are.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

My understanding is that if you have not got a contract within two months of starting you are deemed a permanent employee. Were your hours regular?

Have you provided documentation to say it's okay to return to work. I'd also like more proof than the expiration of a sick cert, which may or may not mean you are fit to return to work.

obplayer

beaugester wrote: »

Hi,

I am looking for some advice please. I have recently been out of work for 3 weeks, due to an odd ball condition called pericarditis which meant I couldn't move around much without getting chest pain. I was certed out by the hospital until yesterday (8th Dec - 29 Dec) getting weekly certs from them after ECGs, Echos etc. I contacted my employer Monday 29th re being fit to work and was told I wasn't needed until next week. I am not being paid, and obviously don't have sick certs either to claim from social welfare. I wrote to my boss on the Monday after receiving the text not to come in (he didn't answer the phone) basically saying in the email he had agreed to me working 5 days per week, I am fit to work and what was he going to do about that? (obviously I worded it better!). I got an unpleasant email last night which made judicious use of the CAPS LOCK button, telling me basically, he had to make other arrangements and not to be bothering him....in other words F*&k off! He also said he would meet me next week to "reevaluate where we go from here". I am working here since mid June and this was first time to be ill. I have been given no warnings or anything like that (also no contract either so don't know if that's relevant). Basically I'm in limbo now until next week with no pay check and am wondering what my options are.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Have you asked the Doctor / Consultant if you are fit to work?

beaugester

My hours were regular, five days every week. The hospital said it was okay for me to work but I do not have that in writing.

obplayer

beaugester wrote: »

My hours were regular, five days every week. The hospital said it was okay for me to work but I do not have that in writing.

I would get it in writing first of all and then approach your employer and ask if he / she is going to give you work.

Senna

If you are getting weekly certs, why aren't you sending them into the SW and getting sick pay, do you not have enough contributions?

beaugester

Okay I will. I have the final social welfare medical cert signed by the GP, that isn't enough I take it. Thanks again

beaugester

Hi Senna, I got my final social welfare cert for last week. As for this week, I should be working, just was told he didn't need me as he had made other arrangements.

obplayer

beaugester wrote: »

Okay I will. I have the final social welfare medical cert signed by the GP, that isn't enough I take it. Thanks again

Also if your employer has no work for you need that in writing, ideally as a P45, so you can claim welfare. I know this is not what you are hoping for but you have to plan for the worst.

beaugester

I see. So he can let me just like that. No notice or cause?

beaugester

Sorry if that sounds naive.

obplayer

I see. So he can let me just like that. No notice or cause?

beaugester wrote: »

Sorry if that sounds naive.

I honestly don't know but it seems to me that you need to sort out your immediate income arrangements first. If he is willing to take you back then great, if not then you can find out what the legal situation is about that, but first of all you need to know where your money will be coming from. You can't live on air:mad:

beaugester

Yeh, I've been trying air this week, not very filling ;-) Thanks!

AngeGal

No expert but I always thought that employee without a contract could be dismissed without cause in the first twelve months. Sorry that's obviously not what you want to hear, I could well be wrong too, hopefully someone will answer with more certainty.

Mrs OBumble

You're still on probation, so you can be let go with only a week's notice at any time.

I would not be surprised if your employer lets you go: You're only just in the door, when you got out sick, at (probably) the busiest time of the year, with what could be a long term condition, and I'd imagine a very vague sense of when you might be fit for work again.

Now you want to come back when they're possibly closed for the Christmas, or if they're open they have already rostered replacement staff - and you've not even got a certificate saying you're fit for work! Assuming there are replacement staff in place - what do you expect the employer to do - put them off again with only a couple of days notice?

As soon as you get a P45, you can go to Welfare and sign on for JB/JA.

You can ask the CWO if there is any option to cover the days in between when you were neither sick not have the P45. I don't know if there is anything, but there might be some variation on Supplementary Welfare Allowance to cover the transition.

If your personal circumstances are so bad that you cannot cover a few days unpaid, then you may have to visit SVP or similar in your area. They can help in various ways, which may include some budgeting / financial planning advice as well as more immediate things like food.




Just reading back before I hit post .. I know this sounds mean. But it's the way things are, and it's probably more helpful for you to hear the ugly truth than platitudes that don't spell out the full story. Good luck with getting things sorted.

MouseTail

beaugester wrote: »

I see. So he can let me just like that. No notice or cause?

Yes, in the first year of employment. After that you acquire more rights.

smcgiff

MouseTail wrote: »

Yes, in the first year of employment. After that you acquire more rights.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/contract_of_employment.html

From what the OP says he didn't get a contract in time and therefore the employer is in breech. I think this gives the employee extra protection. He should check with citizen's advice.

obplayer

smcgiff wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/contract_of_employment.html

From what the OP says he didn't get a contract in time and therefore the employer is in breech. I think this gives the employee extra protection. He should check with citizen's advice.

After he has sorted out his immediate income situation I hope.

smcgiff

obplayer wrote: »

After he has sorted out his immediate income situation I hope.

Oh-Kay... But, It'll take him all of 5 minutes on the phone to CI tomorrow morning.

Senna

Just to say, before a full year in employment the employee has little rights if let go, but you should be given 1 weeks notice. If you were not and assuming you don't start back at work next week, your employer owes you notice in lieu, a weeks wages.

Nody

//MOD

As we've had multiple reported posts and actions taken in this thread so far for the same issue let me be perfectly clear. Commenting on someone's posting style is not only off topic thread derailment but also rapidly goes into the backseat moderation and personal attack territory. If you got problems with a post you report it and let the moderators decide what to do; that's what we're here for.

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beaugester

Okay, thanks for all that. Citizens Advice basically backed up what you said. Nothing I can do in the first year. We'll see what happens. Sometimes the head imagines things that are not real and as I think Mark Twain said, worrying is like paying interest on a loan you don't know you even owe.

Thanks for all the advice again.

smcgiff

beaugester wrote: »

Okay, thanks for all that. Citizens Advice basically backed up what you said. Nothing I can do in the first year. We'll see what happens. Sometimes the head imagines things that are not real and as I think Mark Twain said, worrying is like paying interest on a loan you don't know you even owe.

Thanks for all the advice again.

Hi,

Did you mention to CA that you'd not yet got your contract and it was over two months?

beaugester

I did. He didn't seem to think that meant anything though on their own web page it says that an employee must receive a contract within the first two months. Basically it appears to me that, if you are working less than 12 months and unless you are fired for race or creed, then there is nothing you can do.

smcgiff

beaugester wrote: »

I did. He didn't seem to think that meant anything though on their own web page it says that an employee must receive a contract within the first two months. Basically it appears to me that, if you are working less than 12 months and unless you are fired for race or creed, then there is nothing you can do.

Mmm. Okay thanks. I had been told by someone of the sanction for not providing the contract in time, but it's only anecdotal.

therecklessone

smcgiff wrote: »

Mmm. Okay thanks. I had been told by someone of the sanction for not providing the contract in time, but it's only anecdotal.

This document is a useful reference:

Terms of Employment InformatioN Act Explanatory Booklet

5. COMPLAINTS TO RIGHTS COMMISSIONER

Referral Of Complaints

5.1 An employee may present a complaint to a Rights Commissioner if it
appears that his/her employer has failed to provide a full and accurate
written statement of the particulars of the terms of employment or has
failed to notify the employee of any changes to the particulars in the
statement. A complaint to a Rights Commissioner may be made by giving
notice of it in writing on the appropriate form. The form is available
from the Rights Commissioner Service, Labour Relations Commission,
Tom Johnson House, Haddington Road, Dublin 4 (phone 01 - 613 6700),
Lo-Call 1890 220 227.

5.2 The Rights Commissioner, on receipt of a complaint, will send a copy of
the notice of complaint to the employer. The Rights Commissioner will
then give the parties an opportunity to be heard by him/her and to
present any evidence relevant to the complaint. After hearing the parties,
the Rights Commissioner will issue a written recommendation.
Proceedings before a Rights Commissioner will be held in private.
Rights Commissioner’s Recommendation

5.3 The recommendation of the Rights Commissioner shall do one or more
of the following:-

(a) declare that the complaint was or was not well-founded,

(b) (i) confirm all or any of the particulars contained or referred to
in the written statement,
(ii) alter or add to the written statement for the purpose of
correcting any inaccuracy or omission in the statement,

(c) order the employer to give the employee a written statement
containing such particulars as may be specified by the Rights
Commissioner,

(d) order the employer to pay the employee compensation of a
maximum of 4 weeks remuneration.

5.4 In relation to (b) (ii) above, where the Rights Commissioner alters or adds to the written statement for the purpose of correcting any inaccuracy or omission, the written statement as added to or amended by the Rights Commissioner shall be deemed to have been given to the employee by the employer.

Mrs OBumble

Interesting, there has been a recent case where the Labour Court has applied some laws - I don't know which ones - to apparently give someone with less than 12 months service some rights:

http://connachttribune.ie/compensation-sweetens-the-pot-for-sacked-chef-442/

So if it were to go legal, OP, you may have some options based on things other than the Unfair Dismissals Act - provided you can pay a good-enough lawyer. And this is where the lack of a written contract would help. OTOH, it's possible that the court was just peeved that the employer didn't turn up: the amount awarded to the fired worker is tiny, probably about the same as having a lawyer would have cost them.

But that case is also a great example of why legal isn't always the best approach: the former worker won. But his former colleagues have published his name and their thoughts on his work all over Facebook. Based on that I don't think he'll be working in the fast-food industry in Galway again (at least).


OP, thinking about this some more overnight, it's just possible that you can save your job if you apologise to the manager for asking them to re-arrange everyone else's rotas right on Christmas week to accommodate you. We don't know what industry you're in, or how replaceable you are as a worker. But a lot will hinge on how you present yourself when you talk to them next week, face to face. Don't do any more communication by text: if you want to arrange a time to meet them, then dial the number and talk to them.

beaugester

Hi there and thanks to Mrs O Bumble and the recklessness for their posts.

Anyway, I was let go today, he said it wasn't 'working out' and 'he wasn't happy' that I was filling the job the way he wanted. I did apologise for Christmas etc and stressed that it couldn't be helped etc. I didn't get notice today nor a weeks pay...is that a legal requirement if you are let go immediately? I kept my cool and ended it as best I could.

In answer to Mrs O Bumbles question, I am a herbalist & pharmacist, I left my pharmacy job of 8 years to work in a health food shop. I was keen to make a career change and at the time this seemed like a good option for a drop in pay of €50 a week and a chance to work as a herbalist and pick up clients.

I am good at my job and was told that today again by my ex-boss.

It's my first time being fired. Not a nice feeling.

Mrs OBumble

Ya, it's pretty horrid getting fired. Nothing any of us can say to make it easier. Except maybe that you just have to keep your chin up and believe that it's not the end of the world: look after your health and yourself first, work should always be a 2nd priority to your health. And you will find a new job (believing that you will is really important). Talking to your ex-boss to day was a good move.

I'd suggest a visit to Citizen's Information tomorrow. They may be willing to make a phone call to your ex-employer, educating him about his responsibilities re a week's notice.

Did you get a P45? If not, then also hound him for this as you'll need it for signing.

Good luck with the job hunting.

beaugester

Thank you. And I will get a job. I've learned a lot through this experience. With regards to a weeks notice, yes, I should have got a weeks notice, legally speaking. Also holiday pay.