Returning an item that isn't what you were led to believe it was

Road-Hog

I bought a 'vivofit' activity monitor/wrist watch/heart monitor recently without doing a lot of research into them beforehand. I decided to let the store guide me towards which one to go for based on my budget (€200) and requirements ie a wrist device that would map and time runs/walks and give calories burned etc.

So I walked into a retailer ( who I will not name but they are big) had a look at some 'Garmin' and 'tomtom' products had a chat with a sales guy who claimed he knew the products I was looking for and he guided me towards the Garmin vibofit wrist device. I mentioned GPS capability, mapping etc during the pre purchase discussion so he had a good idea as to what I was looking for. So I went for the Garmin, took it home but decided to leave it until Christmas day to open it and try it out. Box and packaging was ripped open by the young ones (2.5,4 and 6 years old ) and all mixed up with the packaging of their stuff. Any way when I finally got to having a good look at the device later in the day I found out that it was not what I expected. It is basically a sophiscitated pedometer and a Real pain to set up and calibrate. I was lookin for a wrist device that would time map and store routes that I regularly run. After synching with my iPhone downloading two apps I found out that the product was definitely not what I looking for so I decided that I would return it to store and seek a refund or alternative product.

So today I presented myself and the Garmin back to the store only to be told by the sales manager for that particular section that I had to keep it as the packaging was not in tact and that it would not be resale able due to this fact.

I was fairly taken aback and pleaded with them but all she was willing to do was offer me a discount on a similar product meaning I had to keep the one I didn't want.

Surely this is not acceptable. I told her I was totally unsatisfied and wasn't leaving it at this which I'm not. Can a retailer get away with this sort of policy. Am I wasting my time

coylemj

You're in a legal grey area here, it sounds like the sales guy oversold the item you bought but it's your word against his. Did you not study the description on the box before you paid? The type of store you bought it in is notorious for slick salespeople who will say anything they think you want to hear to close the deal, I'm guessing it was a UK chain?

womandriver

The issue seems to be that you allowed the kids to destroy the packaging before you even tried out the product. They clearly can't resell it without the packaging so you're likely to be stuck with it. Maybe post it on adverts.ie or Donedeal.

Road-Hog

Many thanks so far for replies.....an addendum to my OP I've managed to retrieve packaging from green bin. It's not in too bad condition a small bit of sellotape may do the trick. And I badger them again.

With regard to studying the packaging to check before opening I difdnt really do so on this occasion which is something I would normally do. The store isn't a UK one but from an ex UK colony loud annoying ads etc.

Without going down the legal route would the store manager mot have some discretion when applying the corporate rules? Maybe not?!

dudara

It's always worth making an appeal to the store manager. Go in, lay out your explanation, stating that you feel that the salesman didn't sell you the right product.

the_syco

Road-Hog wrote: »

So today I presented myself and the Garmin back to the store only to be told by the sales manager for that particular section that I had to keep it as the packaging was not in tact and that it would not be resale able due to this fact.

The product isn't broken, so what you are trying to do is usually classed as a "change of mind". Some stores may take back the product provided the box is intact along with the internal packaging, and they can resell it at a slightly lower price. From what you describe, I doubt it.

You can try nicely with the product to the manager, but remember; the moment you start quoting your rights, etc, you'll see a fog going over their eyes, and you'll have lost your argument, so be nice.

womandriver

dudara wrote: »

It's always worth making an appeal to the store manager. Go in, lay out your explanation, stating that you feel that the salesman didn't sell you the right product.

Is it fair to blame the sales person when the op went in to make a €200 purchase without doing any research? Especially when it appears there'd be no issue exchanging it if the kids hadn't damaged the packaging. Shifting the blame is poor form and there is an element of personal responsibility to be accepted. I assume the op is an adult.

Guy:Incognito

Road-Hog wrote: »

Many thanks so far for replies.....an addendum to my OP I've managed to retrieve packaging from green bin. It's not in too bad condition a small bit of sellotape may do the trick. And I badger them again.

With regard to studying the packaging to check before opening I difdnt really do so on this occasion which is something I would normally do. The store isn't a UK one but from an ex UK colony loud annoying ads etc.

Without going down the legal route would the store manager mot have some discretion when applying the corporate rules? Maybe not?!

Would you have taken it off them originally if it was clearly opened and presumably used, with the packaging selotaped, or would you have asked for a brand new one in a sealed box?

slimjimmc

the_syco wrote: »

The product isn't broken, so what you are trying to do is usually classed as a "change of mind". Some stores may take back the product provided the box is intact along with the internal packaging, and they can resell it at a slightly lower price. From what you describe, I doubt it.

You can try nicely with the product to the manager, but remember; the moment you start quoting your rights, etc, you'll see a fog going over their eyes, and you'll have lost your argument, so be nice.

Consumer rights are not confined to faulty items, they also cover the situation where the seller lead the consumer to believe the product met his requirements but which it didn't, in other words it was not as purported or described. The lack of original or intact packaging cannot hinder these rights.
As coylemj mentioned it's a border-line situation where it can boil down to who said what and whether the OP had adequate opportunity to examine it (this may include the software).
The gentle but firm approach would be the best start.

womandriver wrote: »

Is it fair to blame the sales person when the op went in to make a €200 purchase without doing any research? Especially when it appears there'd be no issue exchanging it if the kids hadn't damaged the packaging. Shifting the blame is poor form and there is an element of personal responsibility to be accepted. I assume the op is an adult.

If the OP had specified certain requirements and the seller claimed they were met then, yes, you could blame the seller. However if those requirements were met (or the deficiencies were accepted by the OP) and he wants to reject the goods based on additional wants then I'd be on the side of the seller.

womandriver

Everybody wants someone to blame for every little thing these days and then complain about being a nanny state. A little common sense would go a long way. Don't buy an expensive gadget you know nothing about and then dump the packaging before you even turn the thing on!

slimjimmc wrote: »

Consumer rights are not confined to faulty items, they also cover the situation where the seller lead the consumer to believe the product met his requirements but which it didn't, in other words it was not as purported or described. The lack of original or intact packaging cannot hinder these rights.
As coylemj mentioned it's a border-line situation where it can boil down to who said what and whether the OP had adequate opportunity to examine it (this may include the software).
The gentle but firm approach would be the best start.


If the OP had specified certain requirements and the seller claimed they were met then, yes, you could blame the seller. However if those requirements were met (or the deficiencies were accepted by the OP) and he wants to reject the goods based on additional wants then I'd be on the side of the seller.

slimjimmc

womandriver wrote: »

Everybody wants someone to blame for every little thing these days and then complain about being a nanny state. A little common sense would go a long way. Don't buy an expensive gadget you know nothing about and then dump the packaging before you even turn the thing on!

Which is why he relied on the knowledge and advice of the seller. That's not lacking in common sense and you're the only one mentioning nanny state. Again, packaging is not required when returning an item if it was mis-sold.

womandriver

slimjimmc wrote: »

Which is why he relied on the knowledge and advice of the seller. That's not lacking in common sense and you're the only one mentioning nanny state. Again, packaging is not required when returning an item if it was mis-sold.

Well then off the op goes to prove it was mis-sold. Good luck with that. We only only have one side of the story here. All this hassle could have easily been avoided.

And it's common sense to so a bit of research in advance if an expensive purchase. Unfortunately common sense isn't all that common.

Road-Hog

womandriver wrote: »

Everybody wants someone to blame for every little thing these days and then complain about being a nanny state. A little common sense would go a long way. Don't buy an expensive gadget you know nothing about and then dump the packaging before you even turn the thing on!

Due to time of year ie Christmas I think I admitted above that it was a somewhat rushed purchase without as much research done as I normally would hence my queries to the sales guy who gave me the assurances that I was buying what I was looking for no mention of iphone apps required or anything like that . I can assure you it's not something I do on a regular basis ie return goods for 'no reason'.

Very easy to say save the packaging but if you say the floor in our sitting room about 8am on Christmas it was almost carpeted in packaging, boxes, wrapping paper plastic etc. Again I would normally not throw Packaging out but given the amount and day that it was the box for the Garmin item got mixed up and needed up in green bin luckily and not the black one, given the assurances I obtained from the sales person I was sure I had made the correct purchase. Finally I can assure you that I am an adult.

I suppose worst case scenario is to try and sell it on 'done deal' or eBay ?

Road-Hog

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Would you have taken it off them originally if it was clearly opened and presumably used, with the packaging selotaped, or would you have asked for a brand new one in a sealed box?

Boxes genuinely wouldn't concern me so long as they gave me assurances that what was inside was new not damaged etc.

What happenes most boxes after a couple of days and sometimes even minutes ???

womandriver

Road-Hog wrote: »

Due to time of year ie Christmas I think I admitted above that it was a somewhat rushed purchase without as much research done as I normally would hence my queries to the sales guy who gave me the assurances that I was buying what I was looking for no mention of iphone apps required or anything like that . I can assure you it's not something I do on a regular basis ie return goods for 'no reason'.

Very easy to say save the packaging but if you say the floor in our sitting room about 8am on Christmas it was almost carpeted in packaging, boxes, wrapping paper plastic etc. Again I would normally not throw Packaging out but given the amount and day that it was the box for the Garmin item got mixed up and needed up in green bin luckily and not the black one, given the assurances I obtained from the sales person I was sure I had made the correct purchase. Finally I can assure you that I am an adult.

I suppose worst case scenario is to try and sell it on 'done deal' or eBay ?

I feel your pain to be honest, it happens, it's unfortunate when it's something expensive. There's no harm asking in the store again, maybe going down the mis-sold route will be successful, maybe not. Chances are you'll be able to sell it online if there's no joy in the shop. Best of luck with it anyway, hope you can sort something out.

Road-Hog

womandriver wrote: »

Well then off the op goes to prove it was mis-sold. Good luck with that. We only only have one side of the story here. All this hassle could have easily been avoided.

And it's common sense to so a bit of research in advance if an expensive purchase. Unfortunately common sense isn't all that common.[/quote

I agree that you should do research about 'expensive purchases' but if there are time constraints involved It is not always possible to carry out a sufficient amount, hence the odd occasion you take a risk and talk to a sales person who you expect to know a reasonable amount about what they are selling??

womandriver

Road-Hog wrote: »

womandriver wrote: »

Well then off the op goes to prove it was mis-sold. Good luck with that. We only only have one side of the story here. All this hassle could have easily been avoided.

And it's common sense to so a bit of research in advance if an expensive purchase. Unfortunately common sense isn't all that common.[/quote

I agree that you should do research about 'expensive purchases' but if there are time constraints involved It is not always possible to carry out a sufficient amount, hence the odd occasion you take a risk and talk to a sales person who you expect to know a reasonable amount about what they are selling??

I saw that crazed rant at me before you deleted it but it's Christmas so I'll let it go

I still hope it works out for you

Road-Hog

womandriver wrote: »

Road-Hog wrote: »

I saw that crazed rant at me before you deleted it but it's Christmas so I'll let it go

I still hope it works out for you

Thanks. I read it and then thought no it's Christmas so did a bit of 'sarcasm' removal.

P. Breathnach

It's a well-established principle of consumer law that if you rely on a vendor's expertise in making a purchase, then you are entitled to repudiate the contract if the product does not perform as the vendor says. It ties in with the notion of "fitness for purpose". If you tell the vendor what the purpose is, and the vendor advises that a certain product suits that purpose, then that advice is part of the contract for sale.

The above advice does not apply if the vendor is careful to say that any advice or opinion offered is not to be taken as expert advice. That is why you sometimes see disclaimer notices to that effect in business premises.

[On a side-note: it's entertaining to see a joust between two posters who use the names "Road-Hog" and "womandriver".]

A Dub in Glasgo

Lesson of the story here is - do not go for rushed purchases and if you do, accept that sometimes they will not work out. I would try again and if unsuccessful, make a point about not shopping there again, sell the item, learn the lesson and move on


Edit - or buy online and then you have the right to change of mind if within the timescales

Road-Hog

Road-Hog wrote: »

I bought a 'vivofit' activity monitor/wrist watch/heart monitor recently without doing a lot of research into them beforehand. I decided to let the store guide me towards which one to go for based on my budget (€200) and requirements ie a wrist device that would map and time runs/walks and give calories burned etc.

Have you priced how much one with all the features would have cost? Your budget might have limited what is available to you.

Not knowing anything about them I guessed that they all used a phone app and maybe the phone's GPS.

Road-Hog

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you priced how much one with all the features would have cost? Your budget might have limited what is available to you.

Not knowing anything about them I guessed that they all used a phone app and maybe the phone's GPS.

Just to update, I revisited the store in question with my re-constructed box retrieved from the green bin, met a different sales assistant/manager, she had a look at it went off to consult with a colleague, returned and offered me 'credit note' as opposed to cash back as I was outside the 14day cash back period (is this legal, story for another day), in any case I was able to select a watch with GPS built in for same price so all is good. Moral of story is keep box in tact as well as receipts..........!