Belfast City Airport incident.

de biz

Apparently Belfast City not accepting traffic until 2200.

Fly be Dash 8 involved,safely on ground.

Jack1985

Pax evacuated, aircraft swarmed with emergency services too.

KCAccidental

didnt a fly be engine catch on fire on the way to belfast a few days ago as well?

billie1b

Bit of an insensitive #tag for it on the Journal

The Bould Rabbit

Bloody hell its all happening this week.

Jack1985

billie1b wrote: »

Bit of an insensitive #tag for it on the Journal

Journo's really outdoing themselves this week? I'm really fearing the police-chase culture of US Network's is about to spread world over for Aviation. It seems a fart from an aircraft goes viral/breaks across networks in seconds before it hits the fan this past week.

LXFlyer

They've removed the offending #tag and rightly so.

owenc

Not Flybe again. How many times are we going to hear about smoke on their planes, its just constant. I don't fly on that airline and I don't intend to.
The idea of flying on a small turboprob does not exactly excite me, i'm not sure why they just don't order or lease some 737's as they can definitely sustain it.

Growler!!!

owenc wrote: »

Not Flybe again. How many times are we going to hear about smoke on their planes, its just constant. I don't fly on that airline and I don't intend to.
The idea of flying on a small turboprob does not exactly excite me, i'm not sure why they just don't order or lease some 737's as they can definitely sustain it.

Constant eh?

http://avherald.com/h?search_term=Flybe&opt=0&dosearch=1&search.x=0&search.y=0

What is your cost analysis of turbo probs over jets on thin routes?

owenc

Well obviously not every week but it was only a week or two ago that one of their planes made an emergency landing in BFS due to a fire on one of the engines. They have also had other smoke incidents over the last year.

Preset No.3

Has anyone ever read the secret life of Walter Mitty?

tayto lover

Growler!!! wrote: »

Constant eh?

http://avherald.com/h?search_term=Flybe&opt=0&dosearch=1&search.x=0&search.y=0

What is your cost analysis of turbo probs over jets on thin routes?

Just read that link.
Is it any wonder i'm so afraid to fly?

Highflyer13

Growler!!! wrote: »

Constant eh?

http://avherald.com/h?search_term=Flybe&opt=0&dosearch=1&search.x=0&search.y=0

What is your cost analysis of turbo probs over jets on thin routes?

Jesus from looking at that link they are taking a big risk. Thats a lot of incidents for that type of aircraft. I never realised they were that bad. I'm putting them on my no-fly list now:o

owenc

I only fly on Flybe when I have to. They are quite an expensive airline for the short routes that they fly.

I don't feel like the price is worth it for the crappy plane they put you on.

Growler!!!

tayto lover wrote: »

Just read that link.
Is it any wonder i'm so afraid to fly?

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Jesus from looking at that link they are taking a big risk. Thats a lot of incidents for that type of aircraft. I never realised they were that bad. I'm putting them on my no-fly list now:o

Relax lads, Flybe have 71 aircraft and those incidents go back 4 years or so.

Growler!!!

owenc wrote: »

I only fly on Flybe when I have to. They are quite an expensive airline for the short routes that they fly.

I don't feel like the price is worth it for the crappy plane they put you on.

How many of their flights have you paid for? Or did your parents pay, effectively you had no choice over the carrier.


Any details on the incident? Can't find anything online.

PinOnTheRight

I believe it was smoke detected in the hold.

Highflyer13

Growler!!! wrote: »

Relax lads, Flybe have 71 aircraft and those incidents go back 4 years or so.

45 of them being the Dash 800 which nearly all of the incidents involve. Must take a look into it, surely that rate of incidents has to be higher than normal?

owenc

Growler!!! wrote: »

How many of their flights have you paid for? Or did your parents pay, effectively you had no choice over the carrier.


Any details on the incident? Can't find anything online.

Well about twice so never really went on them again but I have to go again soon. We paid £300 for me and my father to fly to Manchester which I felt was a rip off, just kind of felt if Flybe are going to operate a hub at BHD they can bring in 737s.

Don't know about the incident but apparently it is a cargo fire etc.

man98

I have no issue with props (I personally prefer them on some routes) and let's not derail this topic, but it is a bit weird that there were 2 incidents in a small space of time, it seems there's always something happening on Flybe... One thing I will say for them, leaving my disliking of them aside, is that these incidents haven't injured anyone, although they should look into it.

Preset No.3

owenc wrote: »

i'm not sure why they just don't order or lease some 737's as they can definitely sustain it.

There you have it ladies and gentlemen. Please someone forward this post to the management of Flybe. Their problems have been solved by the ramblings of a kid from Northern Ireland who obviously knows more than anyone else in the airline business.

Highflyer13

Preset No.3 wrote: »

There you have it ladies and gentlemen. Please someone forward this post to the management of Flybe. Their problems have been solved by the ramblings of a kid from Northern Ireland who obviously knows more than anyone else in the airline business.
............

Well they have had plenty of engine shutdowns and failures. Some fires too. What will it take? 2 engines to shutdown at once over the Irish sea for them to review their fleet? That would put them out of business quickly. And yes we know the airline business is all about the bottom line but they shouldn't be compromising passenger safety. From looking at the list of incidents they're taking a big bloody risk.

martinsvi

I have a friend who works as an engineer for an airline that also operates DH8D, trust me, it's not flyBe, it's the plane. Not going to go into much detail, but I remember him saying repeatedly - "I can't believe these birds are Canadian, even Chinese would do a lot better job"

type in DH8D in avherald, your top 3 should be hydraulics, engines and cabin pressure

The Bould Rabbit

Preset No.3 wrote: »

There you have it ladies and gentlemen. Please someone forward this post to the management of Flybe. Their problems have been solved by the ramblings of a kid from Northern Ireland who obviously knows more than anyone else in the airline business.

You don't have to be an expert on aviation to comment here. Its a general discussion forum.

But as you're obviously such a fabulous expert on everything, why not simply explain to the poster why 737s aren't feasible instead of taking the piss out of him.

man98

737s are well beyond the optimum capacity for Flybe. Not sure you've been monitoring them recently but even the E195 is going because of its size, which is smaller than any 737, or even the A318. They're swapping them with an American airline for even more Q400s. The best you can hope for in the E175.

eatmyshorts

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

You don't have to be an expert on aviation to comment here. Its a general discussion forum.

But as you're obviously such a fabulous expert on everything, why not simply explain to the poster why 737s aren't feasible instead of taking the piss out of him.

Because its a waste of time when the person thinks they know everything better anyway.

owenc

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

You don't have to be an expert on aviation to comment here. Its a general discussion forum.

But as you're obviously such a fabulous expert on everything, why not simply explain to the poster why 737s aren't feasible instead of taking the piss out of him.

This poster harasses me on every thread I comment on. He also harassed me on airliners.net via private message.

owenc

man98 wrote: »

737s are well beyond the optimum capacity for Flybe. Not sure you've been monitoring them recently but even the E195 is going because of its size, which is smaller than any 737, or even the A318. They're swapping them with an American airline for even more Q400s. The best you can hope for in the E175.

Are you sure about that? The Belfast city wikipedia page shows many of their routes having passenger numbers exceeding 100,000 which to me would actually demand a 737 at least.

Manchester for one having 280,000 passengers. Maybe it is their business idea to have more frequency than larger planes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Best_Belfast_City_Airport

owenc

owenc wrote: »

Are you sure about that? The Belfast city wikipedia page shows many of their routes having passenger numbers exceeding 100,000 which to me would actually demand a 737 at least.

Manchester for one having 280,000 passengers. Maybe it is their business idea to have more frequency than larger planes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Best_Belfast_City_Airport

Flybe are ditching their EMB195's (jets), they have as an Airline, decided Jets are not what they want/need as they are costing them too much money and are sticking with the Dash.

The Bould Rabbit

There are a number of different reasons though some are interlinked.

Aircraft routing - A plane arriving at Belfast (or anywhere else) may not necessarily be flying back to the same airport it came from, and as some of the airports they use aren't able to take 737s it would require an overhaul of their scheduling to introduce them.

Competition - Because they can fly into airports unavailable to Ryanair and Easyjet, they are relatively safe from serious competition on these routes. If they converted to the Boeing aircraft, O'Leary would have them for breakfast. Ask Barbra Cassani.

Availability - 737s aren't as easy to come by as they were a year or two back. Again this is largely thanks to Ryanair. Since placing their record order with Boeing for additional aircraft, this has had a knock-on effect on the second hand and leasing market pushing costs up. This probably won't ease off until Ryanair begin taking delivery of the new planes and start replacing their existing fleet.

Cost - Flybe are a small outfit getting by ok with what they have. The cost of upgrading even some of their fleet to 737s and keeping running costs at a minimum are prohibitive.

Just a few reasons I can think of, but I'm not the expert here.

owenc

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

There are a number of different reasons though some are interlinked.

Aircraft routing - A plane arriving at Belfast (or anywhere else) may not necessarily be flying back to the same airport it came from, and as some of the airports they use aren't able to take 737s it would require an overhaul of their scheduling to introduce them.

Competition - Because they can fly into airports unavailable to Ryanair and Easyjet, they are relatively safe from serious competition on these routes. If they converted to the Boeing aircraft, O'Leary would have them for breakfast. Ask Barbra Cassani.

Availability - 737s aren't as easy to come by as they were a year or two back. Again this is largely thanks to Ryanair. Since placing their record order with Boeing for additional aircraft, this has had a knock-on effect on the second hand and leasing market pushing costs up. This probably won't ease off until Ryanair begin taking delivery of the new planes and start replacing their existing fleet.

Cost - Flybe are a small outfit getting by ok with what they have. The cost of upgrading even some of their fleet to 737s and keeping running costs at a minimum are prohibitive.

Just a few reasons I can think of, but I'm not the expert here.

Well I think if Ryanair can fly a couple of fully laden 737-800 into Derry everyday then surely they can do the same to BHD. You know they don't even have to get a 737-800 they could get A319's or A318's. I just think these 70 seater aircraft to the likes of Manchester and Glasgow are a little small.

MoeJay

At the risk of fanning the flames...

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2010/0831/135033-ryanair/

And for all the FlyBe related info you could ever want to read..

https://www.flybe.com/corporate/investors/pdf/2014/Flybe-Capital-Markets-Day-28-November-2014.pdf

https://www.flybe.com/corporate/investors/pdf/2014/Flybe-Group-plc-Half-year-report-September-2014.pdf

Fortunately (and unfortunately too) airlines pay a lot of money to people to figure all this stuff out.

Similarly, and maybe on topic, their incident rate is hardly newsworthy compared to others.

The Bould Rabbit

Derry has a longer runway capable of handling fully laden Ryanair aircraft.

Belfast City can't offer that.

http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/belfast/belfast6.html

eatmyshorts

owenc wrote: »

Well I think if Ryanair can fly a couple of fully laden 737-800 into Derry everyday then surely they can do the same to BHD.

FR are dropping Derry.

owenc

eatmyshorts wrote: »

FR are dropping Derry.

eh no they are not. You have no experience of flying into that airport.

I do and each and every time I fly in there the flights to London are packed with at least 120 passengers. The last one was almost full.

Also they have changed to Glasgow international now so numbers are increasing on that route.

owenc

The Bould Rabbit wrote: »

Derry has a longer runway capable of handling fully laden Ryanair aircraft.

Belfast City can't offer that.

http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/belfast/belfast6.html

Well BMI has flown an a321 there before. Still the airline has locations where a 737 could meet demand.

Clearly their moto is frequency.

Jack1985

owenc wrote: »

eh no they are not. You have no experience of flying into that airport.

I do and each and every time I fly in there the flights to London are packed with at least 120 passengers. The last one was almost full.

Also they have changed to Glasgow international now so numbers are increasing on that route.

Nothing you have said remotely matters. You have been told before, routes aren't profitable going by Load Factor - But by yield and additional GOBR (Generated On-Board Revenue). So I doubt you have any experience with regards to the finances of routes on behalf of Ryanair from LDY. You seem to have the impression that when you visit airports that's their busiest operational days.

eatmyshorts

owenc wrote: »

. You have no experience of flying into that airport.
.

I was operating in and out of Derry airport when you were nothing more than a tingling in your father's loins, kiddo.

owenc

eatmyshorts wrote: »

I was operating in and out of Derry airport when you were nothing more than a tingling in your father's loins, kiddo.

My brother worked in that airport for years and my father is part of the flying club.

I would rather you keep visual representations like that to yourself thanks.

You can take your thumbs up elsewhere. I have clearly shown him that we know alot about that airport.

fr336

I've read about FR dropping Derry but seen nothing concrete. Now you've said it eatmyshorts I believe it more than ever. Is there any official info out yet?

fr336

Preset No.3 wrote: »

There you have it ladies and gentlemen. Please someone forward this post to the management of Flybe. Their problems have been solved by the ramblings of a kid from Northern Ireland who obviously knows more than anyone else in the airline business.

Not everyone at the top of a business is an automatic genius, you know. Hence why some companies are way out in front of their competitors. Such collective arrogance is just pointless and verging on knocking a poster because of who they are rather than the post itself. There are many other posts of owen's that do warrant such a response.

Happy new year.

peter1892

fr336 wrote: »

I've read about FR dropping Derry but seen nothing concrete. Now you've said it eatmyshorts I believe it more than ever. Is there any official info out yet?

News reports (from october) indicate that FR are dropping the Derry-Birmingham route but I can find nothing else about them pulling out of LDY on any other routes.

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/business/ryanair-to-cease-operating-their-birmingham-route-from-city-of-derry-1-6381495

PinOnTheRight

Flybe are far more interested in offering frequency and chasing business passengers than bulk shipping people in 737s - hence the armada of Q400s and E175s moving 78-88 people around at a time. Not sure about the particular figures for the E-jets but the Dash is pretty economical and works well offering frequency and getting results, just a shame they are inherently...troublesome.

737-800 ops into BHD aren't a problem for domestic services, international routes would be more problematic with the increased weight. Ryanair initially had a cap on the flights inbound but was soon lifted. bmi used to regularly operate A321s through BHD but even then on a LHR service the aircraft was never anywhere near approaching its maximum structural weight and performance was rarely an issue.

man98

Firstly Owen, click this: http://img.planespotters.net/photo/286000/original/G-STRA-Flybe-Boeing-737-300_PlanespottersNet_286957.jpg
FlyBe had 737s and decided they weren't suited. And ask yourself next, what does a business passenger want on a route. A morning and night departure. Seeing as Business traffic makes FlyBe quite a lot (Short notice bookings, food and more convenience I imagine) . 3 daily flights with a Q400 provides about 85,000 annual seats each way, while a 737-700 would provide 157,000. Even the A318 would provide 142,000. While Belfast - Manchester may sustain this, it serves no purpose for smaller routes. Inevitably this means cutting frequencies, which alienates their money makers - business passengers. Add to that the fact that the A318 burns much more fuel per passenger, and a miniscule time saving on short routes, why use a jet on a 200 mile route when props do the same job, burning less fuel, quieter (BHD being noise sensitive) and the vast majority of passengers have no issue with it. The only real alternative for FlyBe is the ATR 72 or Xian 600s.

lord lucan

Yet another thread has gone completely off topic, thread closed.