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First time overclock: i5-4690K, MSI GTX 970, Gigabyte Z97MX Gaming 5?

  • 29-12-2014 1:56pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭


    I have been reading through some guides online and I still have a few questions.

    Here are some pictures so you can get an idea of the airflow:

    IMG_20141223_125654.jpg

    IMG_20141223_125711.jpg

    IMG_20141223_125738.jpg

    IMG_20141223_125743.jpg

    IMG_20141223_125801.jpg

    This is the CPU with stock settings at idle:

    CPU_stock_idle.jpg

    In a RealTemp I left running with a blend test which started 10 minutes prior I can see the max is already 68c!

    CPU_stock_blend_running_10m_prior.jpg

    The CPU cooler is a Noctua L-12, as the larger more recommended Noctua would not have fit this HTPC case. The manual for the Fractal Design Node 605 node case recommends, if putting in an extra 120mm fan at the back (top left of first image), it usually works best as an outtake. It made no recommendation for the two extra 80mm fans I put at the back (left of first image) but considering all but one 120mm was intake I made both 80mm outtake. I have all of the 120mms hooked up to the case's fan controller which has a switch with low, medium, and what I assume is full speed. The two 80mm fans are connected to two SYS_FAN ports on the motherboard, leaving a third free. I leave the 120mms set to full using the physical switch, and although not loud enough to put me off gaming, I was hoping they would have been quieter. I have tried to manage the cables and attach them to the bottom of the case as best I could but there is a lot of surplus cable, mainly cable tied between the PSU and GPU, although not directly obstructing the GPU fans. There is also a lot of cable at the front of the case, which is right in the first image. I was thinking I may be able to measure with a piece of twine what length would be perfect for each of the PSU cables and order them individually. Ideally I would like the system to automatically increase and decrease the speed of all fans as needed, although I am not sure this is possible with the fans all being three-pin and there only being three ports. The options for the fans, at least in the basic bios (there is also a smart bios) are for normal, full, manual, and disabled.
    1. Is the fan intake outtake configuration correct? Would it make any sense to configure the upper-left 120mm fan as instake instead of outtake, leaving just the two 80mms as outtake?
    2. Would there be any reason to connect different fans to the three port switch controller and different fans directly to the three motherboard SYS_FAN ports?
    3. Could I automate fan control somehow, if connecting to the motherboard maybe with some Y-cables to connect 5 fans to the three ports?
    4. Should I set my CPU_FAN and OPT_FAN (second CPU cooler fan) to full in the BIOS instead of normal? Maybe these already increase speed automatically when the CPU temperature rises?
    5. Would it be worth investing in PSU cables to size?
    6. Is this BIOS overclocking guide a good one to follow? The main part of it seems to be gradually increasing the multiplier until too warm or blue screening, then gradually increasing the volatage, then back to the multiplier and so on. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/overclocking-for-beginners/1100-6421190/
    7. The guide mentions making sure no core exceeds 75C although 60 is more comfortable. Other guides list different temperatures and one quotes intel advising one should not exceed 72C. 60 seems low enough, I saw Far Cry yesterday generate a max of 62C in RealTemp. What maximum should I be aiming for?
    8. In another video guide someone recommends turning off some power save features, is this recommended? They are using the Z97X model rather than Z97MX. http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/57425-gigabyte-z97x-overclocking-guide.html


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Luck100


    Yes, you might try running all the 120mm fans as intake. I would recommend running both a blend test and some kind of gpu load (Firestrike or Unigine Valley on a loop) for a good 10 minutes before and after reversing the fan so you can see if it is better or worse. I have a similar build with a Silverstone GD-09 case + i5-4690 + GTX 670 and it's definitely a bit cluttered with excess cable (even with a modular PSU, extra length in cables has to go somewhere). I also think the GPU tends to block most of the airflow between left and right sides of the case so basically they act as two separate chambers. I have a reference cooler on my GPU, which definitely helps. Your gpu exhausts hot air back in to the case, so you should expect higher CPU temps when your GPU is also under load.

    Can't offer much help with overclocking details, since mine isn't overclockable. That guide seems ok to get started, but have a look around overclock.net if you want something more detailed (also lots of experienced overclockers there on the forums). You may have to take it easy as you don't have an ideal setup in terms of case airflow and cooling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    1. Is the fan intake outtake configuration correct? Would it make any sense to configure the upper-left 120mm fan as instake instead of outtake, leaving just the two 80mms as outtake?
      You want to balance in and out as much as possible , you can do fancy things like creating positive pressure , In a desktop I'd just look for a balanced cfm environment with efficient input filtering and enough exhaust to prevent suck back through the exhaust fans. In short, I think that a balanced airflow would be a good thing, but I'd lean a bit towards some positive pressure and some good filtration at the input.
    2. Would there be any reason to connect different fans to the three port switch controller and different fans directly to the three motherboard SYS_FAN ports? As long as you can control / monitor them it wont make any difference.
    3. Could I automate fan control somehow, if connecting to the motherboard maybe with some Y-cables to connect 5 fans to the three ports?
      Probably not , you'd pull too much power from those outlets and risk damaging the board. or else be constantly undervolting you fans . it'll depend on the output voltage and the Power requirements of the fans.
    4. Should I set my CPU_FAN and OPT_FAN (second CPU cooler fan) to full in the BIOS instead of normal? Maybe these already increase speed automatically when the CPU temperature rises?
      CPU should spin faster when the Cpu temps increase. I'm not sure about OPT fan , spinning this faster would change the balance of air in and air out of the case , and as i said before I'd rather If a case has more air intake than exhaust, it creates positive air pressure
    5. Would it be worth investing in PSU cables to size?
      Modular? you'd have to cut and crimp yourself , not worth it unless youre doing a build for a show or something , just tidy and cable tie best as possible
    6. Is this BIOS overclocking guide a good one to follow? The main part of it seems to be gradually increasing the multiplier until too warm or blue screening, then gradually increasing the volatage, then back to the multiplier and so on. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/overclocking-for-beginners/1100-6421190/
      yes but be very wary about increasing the voltages.

    7. The guide mentions making sure no core exceeds 75C although 60 is more comfortable. Other guides list different temperatures and one quotes intel advising one should not exceed 72C. 60 seems low enough, I saw Far Cry yesterday generate a max of 62C in RealTemp. What maximum should I be aiming for?
      Intel know what their chips are capable of , 72

    8. In another video guide someone recommends turning off some power save features, is this recommended? They are using the Z97X model rather than Z97MX. http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/57425-gigabyte-z97x-overclocking-guide.html

      yes turn off powersave and throttling options when overclocking , these can undervolt your cpu making your OC unstable and bluescreening your system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭game4it70


    RE: Turning power saving feature off.

    I never do as whats the point of running full multi/vcore of your OC when idling.
    If its stable when you test your OC it really should be able to handle the down clocking too.

    The best guide i've found for Haswell OC'ing is here.
    Its very thorough and the guys on there are very helpful.

    How are you getting on so far?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭runswithascript


    Thank you both for the responses.

    Okay, so I have read the the airflow guides on overclock.net and I am trying different fan intake outtake configurations. I like the PWM guide but I have noticed Gigabyte have a program that displays a graph controlling the CPU_FAN, CPU_OPT, and the three SYS_FAN fans. The graph is adjustable, it calibrates the fans and allows me to set different fan power percentages for different speeds. As the fans are only three pins rather than four I am not sure if this is exactly PWM but it seems to accomplish the same thing. I am going to connect the three 120mm to the three SYS_FAN ports to control them this way as intakes and connect the two 80mm fans as outtakes to the case fan controller and leave them running on full. I still need to see if this is the best configuration with both CPU fans drawing air into the CPU versus drawing it away. For my tests before I overclock should I leave all fans running at 100% or am I good to have the motherboard increase fan power from say 30C @ 30% up to 100% at 65C or even 60C? I do not want to exceed 72C on this chip. Further, is there a way I can make the system shut down automatically, no matter what I am doing, if the CPU reaches 70C? Is lapping the CPU and heatsink with sandpaper still valid for the 4690K with a Noctua CPU cooler?

    Please advise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    dusf wrote: »
    Thank you both for the responses.

    Okay, so I have read the the airflow guides on overclock.net and I am trying different fan intake outtake configurations. I like the PWM guide but I have noticed Gigabyte have a program that displays a graph controlling the CPU_FAN, CPU_OPT, and the three SYS_FAN fans. The graph is adjustable, it calibrates the fans and allows me to set different fan power percentages for different speeds. As the fans are only three pins rather than four I am not sure if this is exactly PWM but it seems to accomplish the same thing. I am going to connect the three 120mm to the three SYS_FAN ports to control them this way as intakes and connect the two 80mm fans as outtakes to the case fan controller and leave them running on full. I still need to see if this is the best configuration with both CPU fans drawing air into the CPU versus drawing it away. For my tests before I overclock should I leave all fans running at 100% or am I good to have the motherboard increase fan power from say 30C @ 30% up to 100% at 65C or even 60C? I do not want to exceed 72C on this chip. Further, is there a way I can make the system shut down automatically, no matter what I am doing, if the CPU reaches 70C? Is lapping the CPU and heatsink with sandpaper still valid for the 4690K with a Noctua CPU cooler?

    Please advise.

    you can undervolt the two 80mm fans if you want to also , cutting the molex and flipping it upsidedown . The fan speed ramp sounds good , similar thing happens on graphics cards.
    I wouldn't bother with lapping , you'll void your warrantys and if youre using a good thermal compound it won't be needed , the finishing on the newer processors and coolers are much better than were in the past.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭runswithascript


    Ultimately I'd like the two 80mms on the ramp also but I think I will need extra cables, maybe a y-cable or something else as I only have three SYS_FAN ports and five case fans. For the moment I will leave the 80mms on max, unless the cables to connect them all up to the SYS_FAN ports are something I could buy in a shop here early rather than ordering?

    Regarding my testing before overclocking, to see what intake/outtake configuration, including CPU fans works best, should I run all fans at 100% while checking for the lowest CPU temp while stressing, or use the CPU ramp?

    Also, is the ramp I am describing PWM?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    Check the manual of the board for the output capacity of each pinout of the sysfans. 1A at 12v or somthing like that. Check the draw of the fans , maybe they're something like 350mA or so ,and use this to determine if you can connect the fans up in a parallel circuit , will probably require some extra wiring and soldering.. don't forget to leave a little extra play in output vs usage as there is an inrush current for initially overcoming inertia
    and starting up the fans

    if the connection is only 3 pint it wont be PWM , that requires 4 connections. Ground, +12 V, sense, control . The sense pin is used to relay the rotation speed of the fan and the control pin is used to control the fan by modulating a square wave with the duty cycle determining the fan speed.

    those ramps you describe on a 3 pin output and the graph probably just ramps the voltage on the output to spin the fan faster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭game4it70


    Good advice there by papu regarding the fans.

    I would normally run the fans at full pelt while stress testing the OC's.Then run them whatever way you want for normal use.

    Don't mind the 72c temp as that is the max "socket" temp.
    Your safe easily up to 85c on the cores.Use realtemp or coretemp to monitor your cores while testing.

    Lapping haswell is not worth it as you gain very little from it.
    Haswell temps are awful as the IHS is badly put on with to much adhesive.The IHS doesn't transfer the heat well form the DIE so they used alot of thermal paste to bridge the gap.
    Alot of people including myself "delidded" the IHS to fix the the gap and use liquid metal.Here is a post of my before and after temp.Linky
    There is also a huge thread on overclock.net on delidding.


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