careless driving charge

fepper

hi there,i was involved in minor collision at a road junction a while ago, my fault as i pulled out of the minor road. guard rang me and said that i will be getting a fixed charge penalty for careless driving,i taught id get a charge of driving without due care and attention as it happened at a junction. are both charges the same or is one more serious than the other . thanks

punisher5112

Wow never heard or had anyone that I was hit by get charged that is a strange one.

Was there anyone injured or very expensive damage?

Sounds excessive if only minor and just pure accident and not involving mad overtakes and loads of dangerous stuff.

braddun

you have to pay a fine as well in 56 days and you get points on your licence


if you don't pay fine in 56 days you go to court,they double fine and penalty points


also expect your insurance to double

Careless driving: This is defined as 'driving a vehicle in a public place without due care and attention'. The Gardai enforce careless driving offences and this involves a mandatory court appearance. A driver charged and subsequently found guilty of careless driving will receive 5 penalty points on their licence and may also be fined up to a maximum of €5,000. If the careless driving causes death or serious bodily harm, the driver is liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years or to a fine not exceeding €10,000 or to both.

fepper

a bit of damage alrite and other driver is putting in claim for personal injury

fepper

thanks for that info lads, il be screwed so!!!

punisher5112

I would maybe try and have a word with a seargent or the Guard himself just to see.

Like were you seen driving dangerously or was it you just didn't see the other car?

fepper

no didnt see him until we collided, its a v dangerous junction with a blind spot,the guard said it was serious collision so id say the charge will stay

punisher5112

But an accident is just that so this to me seems very strange as I have been in quite a few including been taken out at roads where other driver ran red lights but were never charged.
hit from behind also roundabout and few others.

I would suggest contacting a lawyer that specialize in these situations.

fepper

a friend suggested i go to solictor also so i think i will now thanks for advising punisher

Little CuChulainn

If it's a fine then it will be under 51a of the Road Traffic Act. I'm pretty sure there's no provision for fines under Section 52. And it's not unusual for a person to be prosecuted after a collision if they clearly caused it.

coylemj

In the RSA list of fixed charge penalties, there is an entry for 'Driver found to have been driving carelessly' which involves a mandatory court appearance and five penalty points on conviction so the OP will definitely need to talk to a solicitor.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Penalty-points/Types-of-offences/

OP, to answer your original question.... 'careless driving' is the shorthand description for an offence under S.52 of the RTA 1961 which is defined as 'driving without due care and attention' so they are one and the same thing.

keano25

Just to point out there is technically no such thing as an accident anymore. For years the guards reported them as road traffic accidents, but now they're classed as road traffic collisions.

T0001

Did you hit the car or did it hit you. AS far as I'm aware if you are hit in the side or back of the car you are not liable?

Pat Mustard

T0001 wrote: »

Did you hit the car or did it hit you. AS far as I'm aware if you are hit in the side or back of the car you are not liable?

The charge is careless driving, per s.52 of the Road Traffic Act 1961, as amended.

S.52 doesn't state that a collision is an element required for a conviction for careless driving.

Just for clarity, careless driving is driving without due care and attention. There is no difference.

fepper

T0001 wrote: »

Did you hit the car or did it hit you. AS far as I'm aware if you are hit in the side or back of the car you are not liable?

thanks for all replies guys, i got hit on the front wing drivers side. i was in contact with investigating guard who said that i will be getting a fixed penalty charge for careless driving which will be 80 euro fine paid within 28 days and 2 penalty points on my drivers licence,no court appearance or conviction, so i suppose its the lesser of two evils, will talk to a solictor as well when their offices are open. thanks again

Little CuChulainn

For clarity, there are three offences of a similar nature. Section 51 is driving without reasonable consideration. Section 52 is careless driving, also known as driving without due care and attention. Section 53 is dangerous driving. Only offences under section 51 can be dealt with by fine. The other two are mandatory court appearances. This might help clarify,

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0028/sec0004.html

CarrickMcJoe

Happened my wife years ago, guard said he was charging her with careless driving but not to worry as it's only part of the procedure. After she made statement charge was withdrawn. All not lost yet OP.

fepper

thanks for explaining the charges there cuchulainn so the charge would be driving without reasonable consideration i guess,carrickmcjoe thats interesting because i was never asked for a statement by the gardai. just to add that it was the guard that said the fixed charge would be for careless driving so that s what got me worried

brian_t

T0001 wrote: »

AS far as I'm aware if you are hit in the side or back of the car you are not liable?

This sounds completely wrong.

punisher5112

In most cases if you are hit from behind it is the person that hit you unless they didn't have brake lights, stopped dead in the overtaking to let ducks cross or something.

There are many factors where it may not actually be the fault of the person behind.

coylemj

T0001 wrote: »

Did you hit the car or did it hit you. AS far as I'm aware if you are hit in the side or back of the car you are not liable?

That is a ridiculous generalisation.

If I come up to a 'Stop' or 'Yield' sign at a T junction, turn left without looking properly and a car coming from my right (now behind me) which is driving at under the speed limit runs into the back of me, it's his fault?

If I crash a red light at a crossroads and a car coming from my left or right (through a green light) slams into the side of me, it's his fault?

coylemj

fepper wrote: »

thanks for explaining the charges there cuchulainn so the charge would be driving without reasonable consideration i guess,carrickmcjoe thats interesting because i was never asked for a statement by the gardai. just to add that it was the guard that said the fixed charge would be for careless driving so that s what got me worried

You keep saying that the Garda mentioned 'careless driving' but if you're getting off with two points (as you told us earlier today), it means that he's doing you for 'driving without due consideration' (S.51A) which is a different offence, I'd consider that as getting off lightly so pay the fine and be done with it.

boardsuser1

Was charged with dangerous driving a decade ago, brought to court was advised to plead guilty, judge reduced it to a section 52 careless driving, penalty was a fine,no ban,no endorsement or anything

thadg

T0001 wrote: »

Did you hit the car or did it hit you. AS far as I'm aware if you are hit in the side or back of the car you are not liable?

I hope I never meet you on the road, with that attitude.

car pulled out in front of me 10 years ago from a by road, I was on a main road, he was pushed up the road, I didn't even get a chance to brake. 10k damage done to my car , his insurance paid for my car as you cant pull out of a junction in front of traffic and expect another vehicle to stop. he said his dad an 80 year old man told him there was nothing coming.

the driver should have been put off the road for that , there was no prosicution

thadg

T0001 wrote: »

Did you hit the car or did it hit you. AS far as I'm aware if you are hit in the side or back of the car you are not liable?

this is the attitude some people have that is causing accidents

car pulled out in front of me 10 years ago from a by road, I was on a main road, he was pushed up the road, I didn't even get a chance to brake. 10k damage done to my car , his insurance paid for my car as you cant pull out of a junction in front of traffic and expect another vehicle to stop. he said his dad an 80 year old man told him there was nothing coming.

the driver should have been put off the road for that , there was no prosicution

fepper

coylemj wrote: »

You keep saying that the Garda mentioned 'careless driving' but if you're getting off with two points (as you told us earlier today), it means that he's doing you for 'driving without due consideration' (S.51A) which is a different offence, I'd consider that as getting off lightly so pay the fine and be done with it.

look its my first time been in a situation like this,admitted im in the wrong,v dangerous junction even the approaching main road has slow down now signs and road markings and signs to be aware of this dangerous junction ahead and speed was a major factor here but i was still in the wrong,just wanted to know what i would be facing for careless driving which the guard said thats what the charge was but it seems its different charge now and i will accept it

inajock

sounds to me that you are still a little bit in shock,if you think the other driver was at fault because they were over the speed limit
you should say so and don't be fobed off.

fepper

inajock wrote: »

sounds to me that you are still a little bit in shock,if you think the other driver was at fault because they were over the speed limit
you should say so and don't be fobed off.

read it again i said i was at fault, i even said it two times

godfather2

Hi Op,
just wondering how this played out?

fepper

Fixed penalty charge for driving without due consideration (2penalty points and €80 fine) and ongoing claim for material and personal injuries by the other party!!

kilp10

fepper wrote: »

Fixed penalty charge for driving without due consideration (2penalty points and €80 fine) and ongoing claim for material and personal injuries by the other party!!

You're lucky and from my experience it seems about the level they go for in a case like that. I had someone pull out from a side junction on top of me like that nearly 3 years ago. Hit me side on and I ended up going head on into a wall. I was still suffering the consequences 18months later when another idiot came around a bend on the wrong side of the road and hit me head-on sending me back to square one with injuries.

The first person got off with similar to you, said his windows were fogged up and he couldn't see (so he pulled out anyway...??). The second got off with about the same.
And yes, while I know nobody goes out on the road with the intention of hitting another car (unless they're deliberately acting like idiots), it can still be incredibly hard to stomach what I consider to be light telling offs (after all what's an 80eur fine and a slight hike in insurance) compared to what could end up for the person you hit suffering lifelong pain. No amount of personal injuries awards will ever make up for that, it does not get you back your health.

There's way too much variance in the punishments for causing accidents and in many cases, the victims in RTC's tend to be forgotten about in terms of the impact it has on them, but to be fair, with my second accident, the Garda was excellent and looked for my input when there was a case being put forward by the other side to bring the charge down from careless driving to the lesser.

Anyway, sounds like you've come out of it fairly well. Best thing you did was put the hands up and accept responsibility.

fepper

Appreciate where you're coming from and it is a frightening experience to be involved in.