Retrofitting roof clear-sheet (roof light) with safety cages

milkprofit

Retrofitting roof clear-sheet (roof light) with safety cages
What's the cost who supplies same

freedominacup

milkprofit wrote: »

Retrofitting roof clear-sheet (roof light) with safety cages
What's the cost who supplies same

Why would you do this?

sh1tstirrer

freedominacup wrote: »

Why would you do this?

To prevent someone falling through it, which is fairly common

I know a man that put strong mesh wire under the sky lights, he said it would give you a bit of support if you broke through the skylight to give you a chance to get back up on the roof his idea not mine would it work?

Damokc

Just do it from outside then. Screw strong box wire mesh over the skylights. Long screws into the timbers and stitchers into the sheeting. Oooooor just watch where you walk! Is it asbestos/cement fibre sheets or metal cladding?

sh1tstirrer

Damokc wrote: »

Just do it from outside then. Screw strong box wire mesh over the skylights. Long screws into the timbers and stitchers into the sheeting. Oooooor just watch where you walk! Is it asbestos/cement fibre sheets or metal cladding?

The knacks have a habit of painting over them, a neighbour who bought a farm a few years ago found that out after falling through luckily he survived and ended up with a limp.

freedominacup

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

To prevent someone falling through it, which is fairly common

I know a man that put strong mesh wire under the sky lights, he said it would give you a bit of support if you broke through the skylight to give you a chance to get back up on the roof his idea not mine would it work?

From a hsa point of view there is no safe work method that would allow you to walk around on a roof without fall arrest gear and safety rails that would negate any need for meshes/safety cages. And this would only be in an emergency situation. For normal access cherrypickers/scissors lifts would be a basic requirement again with fall arrest gear and properly trained operators. This talk of safety cages is utter bollocks in the event of an accident/hsa inspection where people are working without the correct equipment. It would be a nice extra but it doesn't begin to address the safety issues.

sh1tstirrer

freedominacup wrote: »

From a hsa point of view there is no safe work method that would allow you to walk around on a roof without fall arrest gear and safety rails that would negate any need for meshes/safety cages. And this would only be in an emergency situation. For normal access cherrypickers/scissors lifts would be a basic requirement again with fall arrest gear and properly trained operators. This talk of safety cages is utter bollocks in the event of an accident/hsa inspection where people are working without the correct equipment. It would be a nice extra but it doesn't begin to address the safety issues.

My neighbour got a traveller to paint his sheds he asked him had he insurance and rang the legit insurance company to be told he was insured. There was no safety gear or any of the things you mention so how would an insurance insure him then?

freedominacup

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

My neighbour got a traveller to paint his sheds he asked him had he insurance and rang the legit insurance company to be told he was insured. There was no safety gear or any of the things you mention so how would an insurance insure him then?

I doubt if they can. They'll take the premium but it's up to the insured party to ensure they are complying with the policy terms. I can't imagine any policy insuring any operator that wasn't complying with hsa regs. I've had more than one safety inspection ordered by the insurance company over the years. Most farmers are going to have to undergo a huge mindset change in relation to health and safety over the next few years.

keep going

Ran 3 lenghts of inch blue band up under theridges and it worked well.

Timmaay

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

The knacks have a habit of painting over them, a neighbour who bought a farm a few years ago found that out after falling through luckily he survived and ended up with a limp.

Only one solution there, don't let the fcukers do the job in the 1st place.

Agreed fully with Freedom on this whole issue, safely cages just kicking the can down the road, it's a total change of attitude needed, nobody who isn't correctly trained and obeying basic H&S guidelines should be up on a roof, simple as is.

freedominacup

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

My neighbour got a traveller to paint his sheds he asked him had he insurance and rang the legit insurance company to be told he was insured. There was no safety gear or any of the things you mention so how would an insurance insure him then?

Btw it was very easy for the insurance company to say he had a policy no lie in that at all. What they didn't say was that it was your neighbours yard and totally his responsibility to ensure regs were complied with. Sub contractor has very little responsibility. It's possible your neighbour could have been sued by the insurance company in question had there been an accident they had to pay out on.

sh1tstirrer

Timmaay wrote: »

Only one solution there, don't let the fcukers do the job in the 1st place.

Agreed fully with Freedom on this whole issue, safely cages just kicking the can down the road, it's a total change of attitude needed, nobody who isn't correctly trained and obeying basic H&S guidelines should be up on a roof, simple as is.

He bought the farm, the man that owned it before him left them do the job.

sh1tstirrer

freedominacup wrote: »

Btw it was very easy for the insurance company to say he had a policy no lie in that at all. What they didn't say was that it was your neighbours yard and totally his responsibility to ensure regs were complied with. Sub contractor has very little responsibility. It's possible your neighbour could have been sued by the insurance company in question had there been an accident they had to pay out on.

True, I would never let them near my sheds insured or not.

Bullocks

Will these safety bars/cages not block light and gather extra leaves and dirt that will negate the clear light anyhow ?
How these are getting preference over pro covers is mad .
Do the stats show that clear lights are causing more accidents than pto shafts I wonder ?

Farmer Pudsey

First of all on the proposed safty cages. these will be fitted under the roof lights. I think the spec is 16mm rebar welded into a 6'' mesh or smaller i believe that these will align with valleys in box profile. The bar running lenghtways on (in valleys) will be left longer than distance between purloins. These will be shoved up through valleys and out far side of purloin. Then other end will be pushed back down over lower purloin in same fashion.

The bars over upper purloin will be bend and strapped to upper purloin.

freedominacup wrote: »

From a hsa point of view there is no safe work method that would allow you to walk around on a roof without fall arrest gear and safety rails that would negate any need for meshes/safety cages. And this would only be in an emergency situation. For normal access cherrypickers/scissors lifts would be a basic requirement again with fall arrest gear and properly trained operators. This talk of safety cages is utter bollocks in the event of an accident/hsa inspection where people are working without the correct equipment. It would be a nice extra but it doesn't begin to address the safety issues.

Not entirely true. safety rails can be used along edges and around fall points if possible. In the case of rooflights this would not be possible. Fall arrest equipment is to prevent a fall causing death. However cages will still be required below rooflights. The problem is that in the case of a person being suspended the next issue is rescue and if this is not possible a fellow worker has to keep his circulation going. No way on a shed roof would a fall arrest system be totally compliant with H&S by its self or even with safety rails. Cages would be required under rooflights to prevent workers falling through same.

Timmaay wrote: »

Only one solution there, don't let the fcukers do the job in the 1st place.

Agreed fully with Freedom on this whole issue, safely cages just kicking the can down the road, it's a total change of attitude needed, nobody who isn't correctly trained and obeying basic H&S guidelines should be up on a roof, simple as is.

The big issue with H&S is that it has now become a burden on employment. This is why in the area of manual type labour big companies sub contract this type of work out. This has lead to agency type work by small to medium subcontractors. By subcontracting out this work in general it gives a bit of arm length safety large firms (Utility companies, Telecoms Operators, energy companies). The upshot of this is poorer paid jobs for workers and I think time will tell lower levels of safety,

It all very well to talk about H&S guidelines. However farmers are generally sole traders. In the drystock area it is a low margin business. If I want to clean the eve shoots of the shed more than likely I get a ladder go up on the roof and work away. Most farm death and serious accidents are often farmers working by themselves doing a job they cannot afford to pay someone else to do.

Believe it or not safety cages may well save a few lives down the road where a farmer goes up on a shed roof to secure a sheet or fix a leak will not drop through a rooflight.

joejobrien

It all very well to talk about H&S guidelines. However farmers are generally sole traders. In the drystock area it is a low margin business. If I want to clean the eve shoots of the shed more than likely I get a ladder go up on the roof and work away. Most farm death and serious accidents are often farmers working by themselves doing a job they cannot afford to pay someone else to do.

Believe it or not safety cages may well save a few lives down the road where a farmer goes up on a shed roof to secure a sheet or fix a leak will not drop through a rooflight.[/QUOTE]
Well said. F. Pudsey.
I believe that is the correct thinking. If farmwers had to apply the same methodology as industries they would simply be out of business long ago.
But unfortunately the tide has changed and now alll farmer, the good , the bad , and the ugly are been tared with the one brush. This will in future lead to higher costs.:(

Timmaay

Fair point FP, I guess it's easier for me as I'm full time with a decent enough margin (for now ha) in dairying, if a roof needs fixing usually me climbing up to fix one or to bits is only a sticking plaster job, we re roofed one shed 2yrs ago and got another one badly needing replacing now, I haven't even bothered to do anything with it yet. However even if I do go up, I will be treating it as a risky job, will be staying away from skylights, only go up when the roof is good and dry, and walk along battens of timber where there are nails to provide some grip. I've only been on a roof twice this while year I think, if I'm up there much more often, then that's a warning signal that I really need to have a professional in fixing the problems and not me wasting my time when I have enough other jobs to do.

Ultimately I dunno if I buy this argument that farming doesn't have the margin to implement H&S properly, for me farming is simple as is a business and a way to earn a living, if this involves taking serious risks which could cause death or life long impairment then to be honest I'll find a different job.

milkprofit

Timmaay wrote: »

f a roof needs fixing usually me climbing up to fix one or to bits is only a sticking plaster job, we re roofed one shed 2yrs ago and got another one badly needing replacing now, I haven't even bothered to do anything with it yet. However even if I do go up, I will be treating it as a risky job, will be staying away from skylights, only go up when the roof is good and dry, and walk along battens of timber where there are nails to provide some grip. I've only been on a roof twice this while year I think, if I'm up there much more often, then that's a warning signal that I really need to have a professional in fixing the problems and not me wasting my time when I have enough other jobs

That's what the man in wheel chair for last 15 years said

It won't happen to me ,!!

Greengrass1

I think but I'm not sure but I heard somewhere you can get clear sheets that will take weight of a person. Unbreakable I think

Miname

Timmaay wrote: »

Fair point FP, I guess it's easier for me as I'm full time with a decent enough margin (for now ha) in dairying, if a roof needs fixing usually me climbing up to fix one or to bits is only a sticking plaster job, we re roofed one shed 2yrs ago and got another one badly needing replacing now, I haven't even bothered to do anything with it yet. However even if I do go up, I will be treating it as a risky job, will be staying away from skylights, only go up when the roof is good and dry, and walk along battens of timber where there are nails to provide some grip. I've only been on a roof twice this while year I think, if I'm up there much more often, then that's a warning signal that I really need to have a professional in fixing the problems and not me wasting my time when I have enough other jobs to do.

Ultimately I dunno if I buy this argument that farming doesn't have the margin to implement H&S properly, for me farming is simple as is a business and a way to earn a living, if this involves taking serious risks which could cause death or life long impairment then to be honest I'll find a different job.

Sadly this isn't just farming, all roofers now are supposed to be harnessed with grab rails and scaffold all around them, all the regs are there to protect people but very few if any of these regs are being properly implemented. In Aus worked was always safety first and work second but all jobs were priced accordingly and it was the norm. Here things are so cut throat and there's always someone out to try beat some one else's price that safety becomes a hindrance. It's all well and good saying h&s this and h&s that but no one wants to pay for it. It's also easy to say get a different job with less risk but these aren't easy got either. If you think walking along the nail lines on a good dry day is a health and safety measure there's a fair bit to be learnt with roofing.

ml100

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I think but I'm not sure but I heard somewhere you can get clear sheets that will take weight of a person. Unbreakable I think

I heard this too, I think Tegral make them.

keep going

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I think but I'm not sure but I heard somewhere you can get clear sheets that will take weight of a person. Unbreakable I think

Im putting on sheeting at the moment and yer man selling the sheet said that you can stand on it but he can do it if he wants but I have bars under it

ml100

keep going wrote: »

Im putting on sheeting at the moment and yer man selling the sheet said that you can stand on it but he can do it if he wants but I have bars under it

What bars are you putting in? I have to replace 14 roof lights, they are 2.5 x 5 foot how many bars do you think I'd need per sheet, 3 ?, and how big 16mm ?

Green farmer

freedominacup wrote: »

Why would you do this?

Because I believe the department are giving grants for it.

ml100

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/farmbuildings/farmbuildingspecifications/pdfversions/S101CDecember2014231214.pdf