Veterinary Medicine

sotisme

Hi everyone, I was just looking to see if any vet med students are on boards.ie. I'm hoping to start veterinary medicine in 2016 (currently in 5th year). I've had my heart set on it my entire life and couldn't see myself doing anything else. I am completely animal obsessed, I've fostered 20+ animals, done about 10 weeks work experience with vets of different types throughout the country, and also work with animal rescues. I am also very interested in the medical side of veterinary.

I really wish I could leave school now to do it, and the thought of having to get about 600 points the leaving cert is terrifying.

What leaving cert results got you into it? Do most people just about scrape the points, or do lots of them get the full 625?

Is the course very female dominated, what would the make:female ratio be like?

Do most people enter the employment field right after their 5 years, or do they choose to specialise/do a PHD?

During the summer (or the college year), are there organised trips to exotic countries for working in animal rehabilitation/wildlife centres like you can do in Zoology?

Have you any advice or tips you could offer me? I would appreciate any replies, or insights as I've never had the opportunity to talk to a student doing veterinary medicine in UCD.

I have also heard talk about the HPAT being introduced for this course , does anyone know when this is likely to a happen?

I know that the course is highly demanding, and in your final year you won't have a minute to spare, but for the first few years, how hard is it? Is there any chance of a social life?!

Lastly, although I know this is virtually impossible to predict, but is it more likely that the points will rise or lower?

Thank you so much and I would be really grateful if someone could answer any of my queries, or offer any advice.

pbthevet

Before you take one more step. And i dont mean to be rude. Do some work experience in a proper mixed practise veterinary clinic.

Decide after that if you still want to be a vet. Because after what i just read your in for a huge dissapointment

sotisme

pbthevet wrote: »

Before you take one more step. And i dont mean to be rude. Do some work experience in a proper mixed practise veterinary clinic.

Decide after that if you still want to be a vet. Because after what i just read your in for a huge dissapointment

Thanks for your reply, I presume that you mean I need to get experience with large animals? Because I have worked in both large and small animal practices, and have experienced bull castration and dehorning, TB tests, blood samples,as well as feline and canine castration. I have helped deliver natural births, as well as seen C sections on cows . I have also helped carry out ultrasounds on horses. I basically spent half of transition year working in vet practices. I have seen the ugly side as well, including a kick from a Belgian blue heifer that left me unable to walk for two days!!

The large animal vet that took me for work experience was very impressed (not trying to sound cocky, just trying to show how much interest I have) and told me that he has never seen a student so enthusiastic. I cant see myself in any other profession, animals are my passion.

To sum it up, I am definitely not lacking in experience in small, mixed or large veterinary practices. I skimmed over the part of my post where I expressed my interest(as I already know veterinary is for me), but I know a lot more than I make myself out to know. I have spent hours online watching videos of veterinary surgeries! My dog also has a very rare neurological condition and has spent weeks in ICU in UCD vet hospital so I have a fair idea of what the hospital is like. I have also had a guided tour of the veterinary building and the vet hospital, and live less than 5 minutes away.

Edit: I've just seen your posts and it's fairly obvious that you aren't happy with the money element and you have also said that if you had your time back, you wouldn't do veterinary as its not worth the effort. I am a total cheapskate so have no need for big money. (Never intended on being a big earner anyways, and am well aware that veterinary is paid awfully). I am also the kind of person that would not be able to cope with an office job. I love the outdoors, am very social and am tall and strong. I would definitely consider working in the large animal practice field and am NOT (!) your typical teenager that thinks veterinary would be "cool" as you'd get to spend your days playing with fluffy puppies.

cpg093

You really need to see some practice with a mixed/large animal practice as what you describe is nothing like the reality of veterinary medecine. I dont want to put you off veterinary if that is your dream but by the sounds of your post something like zooology might be more suited to you.

cpg093

By the way there is no possible way any self respecting vet let you carry out one tb test never mind hundreds of them

sotisme

cpg093 wrote: »

You really need to see some practice with a mixed/large animal practice as what you describe is nothing like the reality of veterinary medecine. I dont want to put you off veterinary if that is your dream but by the sounds of your post something like zooology might be more suited to you.

Please read my above post. Regarding zoology, I spent a week in trinity college at a course for those interested in studying zoology. I talked to students in every year, and got a fantastic insight into what the course entails. However, it is definitely not for me.

I am wondering what you, or anyone else sees as the right requirements and/or interests of someone who would be suited for veterinary medicine?

pbthevet

That a lot of experience youve seen. Way above the norm. Thats good, i definatly respect that.

As regards the course, points required are gonna be high maknly due to demand created from a clueless ideal of what the job entails.

Course work is easy enough. The problem is that theres lots of it and most is new. Compared to most other degrees your going to be in lectures for most of the day and a lot of your evening will be spent reading/studying. Theres a saying that vet students work hard and play harder. This is very true

First year is all about basics, anatomy, simple biology etc
Second year goes into body systems such as reproduction etc in basic detail and more anatomy

Third year is usually regarded as the toughest due to huge amounts of information in microbiology and parisitoligy subjects.

Fourthyear is very clinical, ie proper vet stuff, how to diagnose and cure pneumonia etc.

Final yeal is all clinical rotations. Good fun but can be pressureing for some. You are technically in a year long exam kinda.

Your summers hols are. . . . Gone basically. Took up mostly completing required vet experience.

Final exams . . . .veasy enough to be honest but stressfull

After qualifying finding job is getting tougher. About 50-70 % of your class will go north, uk or aussi new zealand. Starting pay is around €25-35k with diesel paid for

Most rotas in ireland are 1 in 3 or 1 in 4. Thats one or 2 night on call every week and at least one weekend on call on your own a month. Usually no days off for this and during spring youll be busy. Up north practises are bigger some with around 10 vets so rota better but in return money is less. Accomadation is usually provided tho and a car given. I started up north and reccomend it.

When you do qualify there will be very little you can actually do to be honest so you will be doing a lot of tb testing. The nice jobs are done by the boss. Thats why he is the boss.

I do this job because im from a farming background and have no interest working in any other sector. Townies and office people are the type i generally dont even say hello too. Rescuing pets and loving animals . . . . Not really of any use in real world veterinary to be honest. Being as strong as an ox and having a black sense of humour and a deep knowledge of the local gaa team will get you everywhere.

Before going off and getting your 600+ points, and that is very hard work, make sure you really know what you want. Solicitors and doctors earn a lot more money and much better hours working conditions.

sotisme

cpg093 wrote: »

You really need to see some practice with a mixed/large animal practice as what you describe is nothing like the reality of veterinary medecine. I dont want to put you off veterinary if that is your dream but by the sounds of your post something like zooology might be more suited to you.

pbthevet wrote: »

That a lot of experience youve seen. Way above the norm. Thats good, i definatly respect that.

As regards the course, points required are gonna be high maknly due to demand created from a clueless ideal of what the job entails.

Course work is easy enough. The problem is that theres lots of it and most is new. Compared to most other degrees your going to be in lectures for most of the day and a lot of your evening will be spent reading/studying. Theres a saying that vet students work hard and play harder. This is very true

First year is all about basics, anatomy, simple biology etc
Second year goes into body systems such as reproduction etc in basic detail and more anatomy

Third year is usually regarded as the toughest due to huge amounts of information in microbiology and parisitoligy subjects.

Fourthyear is very clinical, ie proper vet stuff, how to diagnose and cure pneumonia etc.

Final yeal is all clinical rotations. Good fun but can be pressureing for some. You are technically in a year long exam kinda.

Your summers hols are. . . . Gone basically. Took up mostly completing required vet experience.

Final exams . . . .veasy enough to be honest but stressfull

After qualifying finding job is getting tougher. About 50-70 % of your class will go north, uk or aussi new zealand. Starting pay is around €25-35k with diesel paid for

Most rotas in ireland are 1 in 3 or 1 in 4. Thats one or 2 night on call every week and at least one weekend on call on your own a month. Usually no days off for this and during spring youll be busy. Up north practises are bigger some with around 10 vets so rota better but in return money is less. Accomadation is usually provided tho and a car given. I started up north and reccomend it.

When you do qualify there will be very little you can actually do to be honest so you will be doing a lot of tb testing. The nice jobs are done by the boss. Thats why he is the boss.

I do this job because im from a farming background and have no interest working in any other sector. Townies and office people are the type i generally dont even say hello too. Rescuing pets and loving animals . . . . Not really of any use in real world veterinary to be honest. Being as strong as an ox and having a black sense of humour and a deep knowledge of the local gaa team will get you everywhere.

Before going off and getting your 600+ points, and that is very hard work, make sure you really know what you want. Solicitors and doctors earn a lot more money and much better hours working conditions.

Your advice is much appreciated. To be honest, points aren't so much a problem as I do very well in school and even if I wasn't aiming for veterinary, I'd still be aiming for the top points. The coursework sounds really interesting, my favourite subjects are biology, maths and chemistry, putting me at a great advantage.

Yep, both my parents are business people, I would never be able to have the same jobs as they do (9-5 sitting at a desk). I would much rather a longer yet more fulfilling day.

I presume that your first job starts when you finish the 5 years, there is never any time for a part time job, and the vet experience you spend all summer doing is voluntary? Do most people depend on their parents, or take out a loan to fund themselves through college?

What you said about rescuing pets and loving animals not being important; Although not needed, I think that a love for animals is important. All the vets I have done experience with value animals differently than how they did before they began veterinary, yet still have a place in their heart for them.

I know what you mean about solicitors and doctors, but think these professions require every bit as much as a vocation as veterinary and I have zero interest in pursuing a career for no reason except money alone.

Thank you x10000 for your help:D

pbthevet

I think i just went from writing you off completely to thinking about offering you a job in the morning

How did that happen?

Anyways good luck! Hope you get it

sotisme

pbthevet wrote: »

I think i just went from writing you off completely to thinking about offering you a job in the morning

How did that happen?

Anyways good luck! Hope you get it

Haha that made me laugh, as well as made my night! I think I'm already booked however as the last vet i did work experience with said he'd take me on the day I'm qualified

I guess I'm just over-excited and the fact that I already know what course I want to do (unlike everyone else I know at my age) makes me impatient and thats really why I started this thread. When people see students my age showing an interest in veterinary, they immediately warn them of all the hard work ect ect, whereas I already knew I was 100% set on veterinary and was trying to find out every tiny detail of the course:rolleyes:

Thank you for all your help:cool:

omicron

sotisme wrote: »

Haha that made me laugh, as well as made my night! I think I'm already booked however as the last vet i did work experience with said he'd take me on the day I'm qualified

I guess I'm just over-excited and the fact that I already know what course I want to do (unlike everyone else I know at my age) makes me impatient and thats really why I started this thread. When people see students my age showing an interest in veterinary, they immediately warn them of all the hard work ect ect, whereas I already knew I was 100% set on veterinary and was trying to find out every tiny detail of the course:rolleyes:

Thank you for all your help:cool:

Your first job should never be near home, make your mistakes somewhere else!

omicron

sotisme wrote: »

I really wish I could leave school now to do it, and the thought of having to get about 600 points the leaving cert is terrifying.

What leaving cert results got you into it? Do most people just about scrape the points, or do lots of them get the full 625?

More or less even spread between the minimum points and 625 - a lot do get maximum tough, and its worth it as you get Ad astra funding from UCD.

Is the course very female dominated, what would the make:female ratio be like?

VAries from 80:20 for girls, to about 60:40 for girls. There were more lads in it the first 2 years after the maths points changed.

Do most people enter the employment field right after their 5 years, or do they choose to specialise/do a PHD?

Most go straight into employment. No one goes straight onto a phd, but some will do internships in other vet hospitals or colleges that can lead to further study.

During the summer (or the college year), are there organised trips to exotic countries for working in animal rehabilitation/wildlife centres like you can do in Zoology?

No organised trips, but you can do your preclinical work experience on something like this after 1st or 2nd year, there are companies tat organise it.
You can also do some of your clinical work experience in exotics in Africa etc, its generally run through companies as well, a few do it every year, it's very expensive generally, and can be fairly hit and miss on how much you actually get to see/do.

I have also heard talk about the HPAT being introduced for this course , does anyone know when this is likely to a happen?

Haven't heard about this lately but if you're in 5th year it's fairly unlikely it'll be introduced between now and then. I don't think it should be introduced, the actual course of veterinary matches up fairly well with the leaving cert - i.e. its not difficult material, you just have to remember an awful lot of it. If you're not good at remembering stuff for the LC it's highly unlikely you'll become good at it in college no matter how much of a vocation you think you have for the job.

I know that the course is highly demanding, and in your final year you won't have a minute to spare, but for the first few years, how hard is it? Is there any chance of a social life?!

Plenty of social life! 1st and 2nd year aren't that difficult, you can go out every week, twice a week if you want and as long as you keep tipping away you'll pass. In later years you don't have as much time for socialising but you can't spend every minute of your day studying either! The 'work hard play hard' thing definitely applies here.

Lastly, although I know this is virtually impossible to predict, but is it more likely that the points will rise or lower?

With the maths included, it's more or less guaranteed to be between 570 and 590.

sotisme wrote: »

I cant see myself in any other profession, animals are my passion.

Don't say this as (a) you might not get into it and may have to go for something else or (b) you might actually not like it, no matter how unlikely that might seem now, and there is no point sticking with it forever just because you've 'always said you wanted it'. Animals being your passion and having seen lots of vet work is no guarantee of enjoying it for the rest of your life.

I have also had a guided tour of the veterinary building and the vet hospital, and live less than 5 minutes away.

Massive advantage, I think the most stressful thing in UCD is trying to find a place to live!!!

Edit: I've just seen your posts and it's fairly obvious that you aren't happy with the money element and you have also said that if you had your time back, you wouldn't do veterinary as its not worth the effort. I am a total cheapskate so have no need for big money. (Never intended on being a big earner anyways, and am well aware that veterinary is paid awfully). I am also the kind of person that would not be able to cope with an office job. I love the outdoors, am very social and am tall and strong. I would definitely consider working in the large animal practice field and am NOT (!) your typical teenager that thinks veterinary would be "cool" as you'd get to spend your days playing with fluffy puppies.

It might not seem like it, but when lots of your friends are earning big money and you're married with kids and lots of obligations you might change your mind!
Another thing to note, you live in south Dublin, you will probably never be able to afford to live in a house where you grew up on vets money.

sotisme wrote: »

Please read my above post. Regarding zoology, I spent a week in trinity college at a course for those interested in studying zoology. I talked to students in every year, and got a fantastic insight into what the course entails. However, it is definitely not for me.

There are other choices as well! Loving animals doesn't mean you have to work with animals, you could look at other options just in case, it doesn't have to be veterinary or zoology.

sotisme wrote: »

Your advice is much appreciated. To be honest, points aren't so much a problem as I do very well in school and even if I wasn't aiming for veterinary, I'd still be aiming for the top points. The coursework sounds really interesting, my favourite subjects are biology, maths and chemistry, putting me at a great advantage.

Don't assume its going to be easy though! Lots of people do very well in school for years and come no where near maximum points, lots of people get the points and can't handle the pressure of exams in college. Maths and Chemistry are requirements for the course but are never used in it, Biology is just learning off stuff but it helps to have it in 1st year!

Yep, both my parents are business people, I would never be able to have the same jobs as they do (9-5 sitting at a desk). I would much rather a longer yet more fulfilling day.

There are more options than 9-5 in an office and veterinary!
Also lots of days will not be fulfilling, lots of days things will go wrong, and lots of days will be mundane and repetitive.

I presume that your first job starts when you finish the 5 years, there is never any time for a part time job, and the vet experience you spend all summer doing is voluntary? Do most people depend on their parents, or take out a loan to fund themselves through college?

First job is usually straight after college but you may have to emigrate for it!
Plenty of time for a part time job in 1st and 2nd year - my advice would be to get one, work hard for the two years and save to take the pressure off the later years. Your main expense is rent and if you live nearby thats not an issue.
SOme banks offer interest free or low interest loans to vet students, lots of people will take them out in later years, but would advise against it early on. You may need to do repeats or want to go abroad for EMS, better not to spend borrowed money on day to day stuff when you have 4 or 5 years left in college.

sotisme wrote: »

I already knew I was 100% set on veterinary and was trying to find out every tiny detail of the course.

I said this already, don't 100% commit to it, things change and you may change your mind no matter how unlikely it seems now. Lots of people who were once 100% set on it change their minds early on in the course or after a few years of work.

sotisme

omicron wrote: »

More or less even spread between the minimum points and 625 - a lot do get maximum tough, and its worth it as you get Ad astra funding from UCD.



VAries from 80:20 for girls, to about 60:40 for girls. There were more lads in it the first 2 years after the maths points changed.



Most go straight into employment. No one goes straight onto a phd, but some will do internships in other vet hospitals or colleges that can lead to further study.



No organised trips, but you can do your preclinical work experience on something like this after 1st or 2nd year, there are companies tat organise it.
You can also do some of your clinical work experience in exotics in Africa etc, its generally run through companies as well, a few do it every year, it's very expensive generally, and can be fairly hit and miss on how much you actually get to see/do.



Haven't heard about this lately but if you're in 5th year it's fairly unlikely it'll be introduced between now and then. I don't think it should be introduced, the actual course of veterinary matches up fairly well with the leaving cert - i.e. its not difficult material, you just have to remember an awful lot of it. If you're not good at remembering stuff for the LC it's highly unlikely you'll become good at it in college no matter how much of a vocation you think you have for the job.



Plenty of social life! 1st and 2nd year aren't that difficult, you can go out every week, twice a week if you want and as long as you keep tipping away you'll pass. In later years you don't have as much time for socialising but you can't spend every minute of your day studying either! The 'work hard play hard' thing definitely applies here.



With the maths included, it's more or less guaranteed to be between 570 and 590.



Don't say this as (a) you might not get into it and may have to go for something else or (b) you might actually not like it, no matter how unlikely that might seem now, and there is no point sticking with it forever just because you've 'always said you wanted it'. Animals being your passion and having seen lots of vet work is no guarantee of enjoying it for the rest of your life.




Massive advantage, I think the most stressful thing in UCD is trying to find a place to live!!!



It might not seem like it, but when lots of your friends are earning big money and you're married with kids and lots of obligations you might change your mind!
Another thing to note, you live in south Dublin, you will probably never be able to afford to live in a house where you grew up on vets money.




There are other choices as well! Loving animals doesn't mean you have to work with animals, you could look at other options just in case, it doesn't have to be veterinary or zoology.




Don't assume its going to be easy though! Lots of people do very well in school for years and come no where near maximum points, lots of people get the points and can't handle the pressure of exams in college. Maths and Chemistry are requirements for the course but are never used in it, Biology is just learning off stuff but it helps to have it in 1st year!




There are more options than 9-5 in an office and veterinary!
Also lots of days will not be fulfilling, lots of days things will go wrong, and lots of days will be mundane and repetitive.



First job is usually straight after college but you may have to emigrate for it!
Plenty of time for a part time job in 1st and 2nd year - my advice would be to get one, work hard for the two years and save to take the pressure off the later years. Your main expense is rent and if you live nearby thats not an issue.
SOme banks offer interest free or low interest loans to vet students, lots of people will take them out in later years, but would advise against it early on. You may need to do repeats or want to go abroad for EMS, better not to spend borrowed money on day to day stuff when you have 4 or 5 years left in college.





I said this already, don't 100% commit to it, things change and you may change your mind no matter how unlikely it seems now. Lots of people who were once 100% set on it change their minds early on in the course or after a few years of work.

That was a really helpful post, thank you.

apache49b

Hi all
I am considering graduate entry to vet med in 2016. I will be a " mature" graduate with two level 7 degrees and a level 9 all business related. Firstly, any advice for gamsat text books for someone who has only leaving cert biology ?
Should I concentrate on Gamsat or take physics and chemistry at LC level ?
Secondly is it possible to work part time ? Would anyone have an example of a semester timetable for first year ?
Thanks in advance for any advice !
B

omicron

apache49b wrote: »

Hi all
I am considering graduate entry to vet med in 2016. I will be a " mature" graduate with two level 7 degrees and a level 9 all business related. Firstly, any advice for gamsat text books for someone who has only leaving cert biology ?
Should I concentrate on Gamsat or take physics and chemistry at LC level ?
Secondly is it possible to work part time ? Would anyone have an example of a semester timetable for first year ?
Thanks in advance for any advice !
B

You can't do the regular 4 year graduate entry degree without a science related degree. There is a possibility of getting into the 5 year as a grad entry but as far as I know there is only 1 place per year, not sure how it is decided.

First year is generally pretty light on hours, start at 9 or 10 and finish at 3 or 4 with a few breaks and some days off (often Fridays), only about 20 contact hours a week or less.
Could definitely work weekends for a few years.

apache49b

Thanks Omicron, it's really great to get this sort of iinformation. At least working weekends is possible, this would help a lot.
Any idea of the profile they look for from the non science grad ? Grad medicine seems to take " mature" applicants , have you seen any " mature" students around the vet school ? A lot of competition for one place then and up hill battle ahead I reckon.
Thanks again.
B

loulou23

apache49b wrote: »

Hi all
I am considering graduate entry to vet med in 2016. I will be a " mature" graduate with two level 7 degrees and a level 9 all business related. Firstly, any advice for gamsat text books for someone who has only leaving cert biology ?
Should I concentrate on Gamsat or take physics and chemistry at LC level ?
Secondly is it possible to work part time ? Would anyone have an example of a semester timetable for first year ?
Thanks in advance for any advice !
B

Hey,

I applied through the graduate entry system. I had a non science degree so I'm in the 5 year programme. I'm in second year now. I got the gamsat test papers and sample answers(bought them on eBay). The gamsat exam is 1st year university level for the sciences.40% chemistry & biology,20% physics. I never did physics so luckily picked up points in the other two essay writing and reasoning sections. I think a decent leaving cert book will cover a lot for you. It is very competitive,only 1-2 spots for graduate 5 year programme. The year I applied I think a mimimum of 55 mark in the gamsat was needed just for your application to be considered which is doable😀. The first time I applied last minute and didn't get accepted.I went and did a lot of animal vet clinic/rescue experience and applied-2nd time lucky! So if your applying,good gamsat grade,quite a lot of animal experience,and also your grades from previous courses are looked at. The first two years you could work part time. If it's what you really want to do keep at it,you will get there! I absolutely love the course😄 good luck!

apache49b

Thanks very much for all the information. It's just what I needed and answers many questions. I guess it's head down now and Gamsat all the way, and of course the voluntary work.
Very best of luck with your further studies.
B

chucks1991

Hi all, I am really interested in joining the vet med graduate program Sept 2016. I'm currently working as an occupational therapist but my heart has always been set on veterinary! I have a 2:2 degree in OT, never did chemistry in school. Hoping to do the four year course. Roughly how many people apply to the graduate program each year? what is the average gamsat score required? I'm planning on volunteering from now onwards with as many private vets/ animal charitys etc as I can at the weekends, any tips on places that would be good for gaining recognised experience? Literally any other relevant information is greatly appreciated.

QCS123

omicron wrote: »

Don't assume its going to be easy though! Lots of people do very well in school for years and come no where near maximum points, lots of people get the points and can't handle the pressure of exams in college. Maths and Chemistry are requirements for the course but are never used in it, Biology is just learning off stuff but it helps to have it in 1st year!

They've actually introduced "intro to epidemiology" for first years now which includes a lot of LC statistics - so it does come in handy. Awful module though - they only introduced it last minute because they needed it to get the AMA Accreditation. Also I think you have to have the background of chemistry knowledge to understand a lot of the biochem in first year. Biology is extremely useful but you can pick it up as you go, chemistry not so much.

Also your experience is an advantage - this is on the MyUCD site for Vet Med "Special Entry Recommendation: Applicants for Veterinary Medicine are strongly recommended to get some experience (two weeks suggested) with animals in such settings as farms, veterinary practices and animal shelters. This is likely to become a requirement for application from 2017 "

You'll probably just miss out on it if you're 2016 but sounds like they're following suit of many of the UK colleges.

At least half my class didn't get in straight after the Leaving. Lots of people who repeated (some repeated twice), lots of people who had rechecks and went up, some people missed out on second round just by chance (as it's a lotto system) and simply applied again the following year and were lucky enough to get picked, some who got the points but just didn't get the HC3 in chemistry and only repeated chemistry and then got in. Moral of the story - if you want it don't give up!

Wisco

I'm in the 5 year grad entry- there are 5 spots per year. I think there are about 40 places on the 4 year grad program but about half go to Americans and Canadians.

I didn't have a science background but taught myself what I needed for GAMSAT with GAMSAT practice tests and organic chemistry for dummies. To be honest, I think GAMSAT is the major player in who gets in or not.

You'll be able to work no problem in first and second year- I also continued working after that , but others in my class didn't.

It's not that hard if you put in the work, but a large part of my class had to repeat the leaving to get the points to get in. We've also had quite a few fail and be a year or two back now.

Funding is the hardest part for mature students unless you have cash set aside- the banks don't really want to fork out 80k so make sure you have funding before you start.