Religion vs Physics - Physics won

Kermit.de.frog

So I happened to be watching an episode of "How the Universe Works" on the discovery channel in front of 3 old ladies (don't ask), religious Catholic types.

They seemed to have a big issue with the program and wanted to ignore the glorious wonder of the Universe. But in particular I was asked to turn it off when the issue of the Sun expanding to where the Earth is in it's orbit came up (it's red giant phase). I was told this was "rubbish", nonsense etc.

I admit I did turn to them and ask what the position of the church was on this inevitability in a mischevious way. This appeared to really irritate them. *surely all this is in the good book!?*

What is religions take on these threats? None seem to have any. The narrative seems to be stick to planet Earth or nothing makes sense to them.

They just did not want to know.

But they had the look and demeanor of 3 old religious women that had been beaten by this and were suddenly unsure perhaps even questioning which might explain the irritation.

Religion seems to fall remarkably quickly when hard science comes along.

I want to stress though I have no issue at all with religious beliefs which I fully respect. In this case though religion (visibly) failed.

RDM_83 again

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître

Kermit.de.frog

RDM_83 again wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître

Ah touché. The flock maybe need more awareness of this though. Time to edit the Bible.

kneemos

I know nothing about the Bible but I think there is some sort of reference about fire from the sky bringing the end of the world.
Always assumed it referred to a meteor.

Kermit.de.frog

kneemos wrote: »

I know nothing about the Bible but I think there is some sort of reference about fire from the sky bringing the end of the world.
Always assumed it referred to a meteor.

Perhaps they are referring to a Gamma Ray burst?

Hermy

It's very simple - man created god in his image.

pmasterson95

Logic beats faith....what next? North Korea hacks Sony?

Peregrine

kneemos wrote: »

I know nothing about the Bible but I think there is some sort of reference about fire from the sky bringing the end of the world.
Always assumed it referred to a meteor.

According to the Book of Revelation, during the apolcalypse the sun turns black, the moon turns red, the stars fall onto the earth and the sky disappears, mountains and islands are "removed from its place".

There's some crazy shit in the Book of Revelation.

SEPT 23 1989

you feel better now OP?

Birneybau

Hermy wrote: »

It's very simple - man created god in his image.

Thought god was like a vapour or something. I ain't no vapour fool.

catallus

The majesty of creation comes from the mind of God.

Senna

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So I happened to be watching an episode of "How the Universe Works" on the discovery channel in front of 3 old ladies (don't ask), religious Catholic types.

They seemed to have a big issue with the program and wanted to ignore the glorious wonder of the Universe. But in particular I was asked to turn it off when the issue of the Sun expanding to where the Earth is in it's orbit came up (it's red giant phase). I was told this was "rubbish", nonsense etc.

I admit I did turn to them and ask what the position of the church was on this inevitability in a mischevious way. This appeared to really irritate them. *surely all this is in the good book!?*

What is religions take on these threats? None seem to have any. The narrative seems to be stick to planet Earth or nothing makes sense to them.

They just did not want to know.

But they had the look and demeanor of 3 old religious women that had been beaten by this and were suddenly unsure perhaps even questioning which might explain the irritation.

Religion seems to fall remarkably quickly when hard science comes along.

I want to stress though I have no issue at all with religious beliefs which I fully respect. In this case though religion (visibly) failed.

Did any of that really happen? Or were you just wanting a thread about religious vs science and need a back story to make the thread different to any of the rest of them.

_Whimsical_

The reaction of the three old ladies was probably more to do with them being three old ladies rather than their religion to be honest. They probably haven't been exposed to the theory of the universe or a university physics education, like most old Irish ladies. Catholicism and most centre ground christianity does not have issue with the big bang theory or with evolution, these things are taught in christian schools and universities all over the world, including Ireland.

catallus

Religion is science!

hfallada

Well in fairness the bible was written 2000 years ago. Anything we call Science didnt really occur until the 1600s at the earliest. But OP is surprised modern Science contradicts a 2000 year old book? The Catholic Church which Im sure the OP is referring to. Changes its stance on Science constantly

lazygal

catallus wrote: »

Religion is science!

Just ask any scientician.

NIMAN

If you find yourself hanging around with 3 old dolls watching TV, religion v science is the least of your worries pal.

jhegarty

Next time you make up a story say it was a evangelical protestant of some type. Then the story would make some sense.

I suggest Western Branch of American Reform Presbylutheranism.

CiDeRmAn

I wound up in a hotel bar, adjoining Disneyland Paris, with my sister in law and her husband who were trying to convince me that there was no reason that the laws of physics don't change when you go far enough away, say to Neptune. Their example, not mine.
An hour of explanation ensued with them declaring me having "faith" in science and that, as I wasn't able to actually go there, to Neptune, and check that π still =π then I have no proof and accept on faith that the rules still apply.
They wanted me to say that there was some small probability, say 1%, that I could be wrong.
I refused.
I did make the error of subsequently explaining a black swan event, to which they felt this explained their point exactly and decided the debate was won in their favour.

Karl Stein

You made three elderly women feel uncomfortable with your incredible intellect OP?

Well done you hero.

_Whimsical_

Karl Stein wrote: »

You made three elderly women feel uncomfortable with your incredible intellect OP?

Well done you hero.

Agreed, lot to be said for nodding and smiling in these situation when there are elderly people involved.

B.A._Baracus

At the risk of sounding like a cynical jerk... I dont believe the op's story. Just sounds made up.
3 old bible bashing grannies watching discovery channel's "How the universe works" with someone else whose younger. Then one says "XYZ" then the younger person says "XYZ"

Then the post ends with the usual 'disclaimer' of "I want to stress though I have no issue at all with religious beliefs which I fully respect. In this case though religion (visibly) failed"

There is a big wooden spool stirring something here

CrabRevolution

This list is surprisingly extensive. Not in the sense that priests aren't capable of being scientists, but to have enough interest in both God and science to dedicate your life to both:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric-scientists

NIMAN

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like a cynical jerk... I dont believe the op's story. Just sounds made up.
3 old bible bashing grannies watching discovery channel's "How the universe works" with someone else whose younger. Then one says "XYZ" then the younger person says "XYZ"

Then the post ends with the usual 'disclaimer' of "I want to stress though I have no issue at all with religious beliefs which I fully respect. In this case though religion (visibly) failed"

There is a big wooden spool stirring something here

Maybe the OP is an old lady too, and there were 4 old dolls watching the telly.

The Diabolical Monocle

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So I happened to be watching an episode of "How the Universe Works" on the discovery channel in front of 3 old ladies (don't ask), religious Catholic types.

They seemed to have a big issue with the program and wanted to ignore the glorious wonder of the Universe. But in particular I was asked to turn it off when the issue of the Sun expanding to where the Earth is in it's orbit came up (it's red giant phase). I was told this was "rubbish", nonsense etc.

I admit I did turn to them and ask what the position of the church was on this inevitability in a mischevious way. This appeared to really irritate them. *surely all this is in the good book!?*

What is religions take on these threats? None seem to have any. The narrative seems to be stick to planet Earth or nothing makes sense to them.

They just did not want to know.

But they had the look and demeanor of 3 old religious women that had been beaten by this and were suddenly unsure perhaps even questioning which might explain the irritation.

Religion seems to fall remarkably quickly when hard science comes along.

I want to stress though I have no issue at all with religious beliefs which I fully respect. In this case though religion (visibly) failed.

Fantastic, now all you have left to do is explain who it is that feels sensations and emotions.

The inner world, human experience and consciousness is a doddle, easily solvable with some good ol physical science.

Tin Foil Hat

Scientists base their conclusions around the evidence. Religionists base the evidence around their conclusions.

obplayer

catallus wrote: »

Religion is science!

:eek::eek::eek::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D:D

WTF!

catallus

The modern fad of saying religion and science are opposed to each other is wrong.

They complement each other.

It's all about the human factor.

To reject the transcendental is to reject our humanity.

Science is the stuttering voice of the mind trying to communicate the totality of God.

toastedpickles

I'm sure can all put our differences aside...for science...you monsters...

Nabber

OP your story is muck. Your attempt at bash a religion thread failed on the first post. Being scientifically minded is your thing and religion the 3 old ladies thing? You failed harder.

Now, tell us how you ended up in a room with 3 old ladies and a cup? Did you meet them at a lemonparty?

NIMAN

Maybe it was a swingers party.

Turtwig

RDM_83 again wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître

Ah but that's just Catholicism. What did the Muslims, Buddhists and Christians ever do!? Huh !? HUHHhhhh!!?

NotASheeple

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I dont believe the op's story. Just sounds made up.

You're not alone in thinking that.

RobertKK

The Catholic Church also has the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, about a third of the scientists are Nobel prize winners in the area of science and the scientists are made up of different faiths and none.
A scientist that most people know like Stephen Hawking is a member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.
Some like to portray there is this conflict going on between science and religion and the intelligent will look down on religion. The reality is they co-exist together and both offer different elements to the human experience.

Molester Stallone II

Hermy wrote: »

It's very simple - man created god in his image.

Does god have a small mickey too?

CiDeRmAn

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Ah touché. The flock maybe need more awareness of this though. Time to edit the Bible.

The link make it clear, no editing required.
All it needs is for people to see that their having a faith does not exclude them from setting science as a wonderful way to describe the universe around us.
It seems that the more colloquial aversion to the bigger things science has to say, such as the eventual expansion of the sun past the earth's orbit, would be beyond many people ken and therefore irrelevant and foolish.
That has nothing to do with their religion, simply that it's so remote from their personal experience that they do not need their world view cluttered with this "noise".
Same reason why it's so hard to talk serious illness with some people, particularly of currently asymptomatic, they just don't want to know and switch off.

zuutroy

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I wound up in a hotel bar, adjoining Disneyland Paris, with my sister in law and her husband who were trying to convince me that there was no reason that the laws of physics don't change when you go far enough away, say to Neptune. Their example, not mine.
An hour of explanation ensued with them declaring me having "faith" in science and that, as I wasn't able to actually go there, to Neptune, and check that π still =π then I have no proof and accept on faith that the rules still apply.
They wanted me to say that there was some small probability, say 1%, that I could be wrong.
I refused.

You have to accept there's a chance you're wrong or at least our understanding is incomplete. For years the Pioneer probes had scientists genuinely scratching their heads wondering if there was a hole in Newtonian mechanics.

Furthermore other research has suggested the fine structure constant may not be constant throughout space-time, which would mean that one or more of the electron charge, the speed of light, and planck's constant are not fixed.

Birneybau

Molester Stallone II wrote: »

Does god have a small mickey too?

Your god does

Donkey Oaty

catallus wrote: »

Religion is science!

As Steven Hawkins said, "Together we are a powerful force."