need advice

LegacyUser

Hi folks
I would like some help with a problem please.
I have a six year old daughter who is extremely intelligent. She is always asking questions. she cleans her own bedroom, she has manners and respects her elders. we are quite strict with her because we think it is in her best interest to instill morals now and avoid correcting mistakes later.
Recently she has become very withdrawn, she was once a very happy, outgoing little girl and now she sits silently. she cries a lot and whinges when she doesn't get her own way. she always seems to want to cuddle all the time. she doesn't want to go to sleep. she declared the other day that she HATES shopping. this is something that we always enjoyed doing together.
she told me that there are two boys in school doing things to her e.g they opened the door while she was sitting on the toilet (to let the other boys laugh at her). they told the other boys that they saw her bum. They point between her legs and laugh. I called the school and they said that they would sort it and they got cross with the boy. which i don't think is good enough. When something like this is happening i think parents should be called in, I would want to know if my child was doing this to another child.

this may not be the reason though, maybe we are doing something wrong, we both work a lot and we had her when we were teenagers. her twin sister also died when they were babies ( maybe she feels something that I don't understand).has anyone else ever been in this position? is it just a phase? dont get me wrong my child is no angel but until recently she was so confident and always able to stand up for herself, in fact she is so strong minded that I was worried that she would be a bully. But not anymore, she is so secluded and in a world of her own. It is very difficult as it seems she is changing before my eyes

quickq987

Hi folks
I would like some help with a problem please.
I have a six year old daughter who is extremely intelligent. She is always asking questions. she cleans her own bedroom, she has manners and respects her elders. we are quite strict with her because we think it is in her best interest to instill morals now and avoid correcting mistakes later.
Recently she has become very withdrawn, she was once a very happy, outgoing little girl and now she sits silently. she cries a lot and whinges when she doesn't get her own way. she always seems to want to cuddle all the time. she doesn't want to go to sleep. she declared the other day that she HATES shopping. this is something that we always enjoyed doing together.
she told me that there are two boys in school doing things to her e.g they opened the door while she was sitting on the toilet (to let the other boys laugh at her). they told the other boys that they saw her bum. They point between her legs and laugh. I called the school and they said that they would sort it and they got cross with the boy. which i don't think is good enough. When something like this is happening i think parents should be called in, I would want to know if my child was doing this to another child.

this may not be the reason though, maybe we are doing something wrong, we both work a lot and we had her when we were teenagers. her twin sister also died when they were babies ( maybe she feels something that I don't understand).has anyone else ever been in this position? is it just a phase? dont get me wrong my child is no angel but until recently she was so confident and always able to stand up for herself, in fact she is so strong minded that I was worried that she would be a bully. But not anymore, she is so secluded and in a world of her own. It is very difficult as it seems she is changing before my eyes

braddun

bullying


http://www.antibullyingireland.com/

Chemical Byrne

Definitely bullying. And quite a serious case of it too. From what you described I would even consider it to be sexual harassment. Barging in and mocking her while she is in the toilet is completely and utterly unacceptable behavior. If I were you I'd be taking a fairly stiff line with the school to put a stop to the behavior of these boys.

If the drag their heels on the issue and you could probably threaten them with a damages claim.

Moonbeam

Have you spoken to her teachers?
Does she have friends ?
Is she frustrated from being intelligent ?
It could be a hundred different things .

aaakev

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Definitely bullying. And quite a serious case of it too. From what you described I would even consider it to be sexual harassment. Barging in and mocking her while she is in the toilet is completely and utterly unacceptable behavior. If I were you I'd be taking a fairly stiff line with the school to put a stop to the behavior of these boys.

If the drag their heels on the issue and you could probably threaten them with a damages claim.

Ah come on now a bit of cop on here. what is happening is bullying, no denying that and the school should deal with it in an appropriate manner but sexual harassment?? ffs these are 6 or 7 year old kids, no need to try make it more serious than it already is

Chemical Byrne

I don't agree. I think the sort of thing the op describes goes beyond normal school yard bullying.

OP could you tell your daughter to make sure she locks the door when she's in the toilet? Do school toilets have locks on the doors?
Either way, these boys need to be set straight on what is and is not acceptable behavior, sooner rather than later.

quickq987

Moonbeam wrote: »

Have you spoken to her teachers?
Does she have friends ?
Is she frustrated from being intelligent ?
It could be a hundred different things .

Ive spoken to her teachers who were supposed to call me back but they didn't. My daughter told me that they had given out to the boys. She does not seem frustrated. She also goes to school with four of her cousins who are the same age. i regularly see her with these children so I know that she is friends with them. they regularly come to our house and she goes to theirs.
I don't know how to tackle the issue with the school. they said that bullying is repetitive behavior and at the time i could only tell them of two incidents. my daughter has only told me of three incidents as she becomes very shy and intimidated when I ask her as if she feels ashamed. Children in the school are not allowed to lock the bathroom door which is why the door was unlocked.

Moonbeam

Ask the school for a copy of their anti bullying policy too .

quickq987

Actually moonbeam thats a great idea, i think i have that here at home.
thank you

Chemical Byrne

You should tell your daughter to lock the door of the toilet. If the teacher gives her grief about it tell her to tell them that you gave her permission to lock it.
It might save hassle to just give her a letter to show the teacher that she is to lock the door.

But really you shouldn't have to do this. The bullying needs to stop. Put pressure on them to resolve it and demand that the boys' parents are informed of what they are doing to your daughter. You need to be firm with them as they probably do not want to rock the boat with other parents and want to avoid conflict. You will need to apply pressure. Demand to see their anti bullying policy, review it, call them out on any failings or non compliances you identify, ask them why and what are they going to do about it.

Basically you need to demonstrate to them that would want and expect action and are not the type to be fobbed off with stories of "getting cross".

as_mo_bhosca

Bullying is a term thrown about too easily and the definition lost. I'd be very suspicious that there is bullying going on but you need to know if more is happening. It does sound like it from your child's reaction.
Keep in contact with teachers and principal but in a non confrontational manner. At the same time not being too casual. Hope you get what I'm saying. Threatening a claim/legal action is totally wrong way to go.
The teacher may not have gotten back to you as the end of term is usually mental. Xmas plays and what not. Remind him/her about it at the star of school on the fifth.
It's very hard for a six year old to recall all things that may have been done bullying wise and they are not the most reliable 'witnesses' for want of a better word.
Your reaction so far seems spot on. Keep in contact with teacher as much as you can. The manner in which you do is important.
My two cents as a former principal, not a parent.

quickq987

I do agree that the term bullying can be thrown around at times and i am very wary that she is no angel herself and has probably done things in the past that could be perceived as bullying as she used to be quite bossy, before when you could get a word out of her. I am very nervous about not being taken seriously. We are a very different family to the other families at the school. They are all married with other children and big houses. They all have stay at home mothers who seem to be perfect and they also seem to have loads of money. It is a very "clicky" school. While we are not stuck for money we would not be able to have one of us stay home even if i wanted to give up working. We are not married (not that i believe that it makes a difference) and our house is a very normal plain house in a quiet estate. I have always felt that they looked down on me and it never really bothered me before i do feel that the other parents have the status in this situation that we do not have. I guess i am going to have to be persistent without seeming pushy

December2012

Why are you so strict with her? What is your definition of strict?

Do you ever talk about her twin? Does she get to express any feelings about her twin?

Look inside the home as well as outside.

Are your standards unrealistic? Why would you expect a six year old to like shopping? Most don't.

You say you both work a lot; what fun things do you do that she gets to pick? Is she allowed to make a mess / play creatively (NOT educationally!)

Where is the fun?

as_mo_bhosca

You seem very level headed in your approach. I agree you may be given the run around by the school. I have seen it happen. Very rarely I must add. The vast majority of schools I've known deal well with these situations. As one poster said get a copy of school code of conduct/behaviour policy. All schools are now required to have an anti bullying policy that is pretty standard. Lays out how they will investigate it and proceed.
Don't be swayed by people suggesting you start going all out attack mode.
I hope you sort this for your little girl. I wish more people had such a level headed approach as you.

Big Bag of Chips

You don't know that the boys' parents haven't been approached. Everyone is on school holidays now, so let her relax and enjoy her time off. Don't mention it again unless she does. Don't question her or put words in her mouth. For the next two weeks enjoy her being a child at Christmas time.

When she goes back to school ask her caually "how was school today?". A very good tip, I think I read here is to ask "What was the best thing that happened in school today?" "What was the funniest thing" "... Worst thing...?" Etc. It gives the child the chance to tell you things if things need to be told. But do it casually.. While you are driving home, or making the dinner etc. Not as a sit down, serious chat.

And don't think that anybody is looking down their nose at you. I'm a stay at home parent, purely because it wouldn't pay me to work and pay childcare for 4 children. I'm lucky that we are in a position where I don't have to work, and we are comfortable, but we're certainly not rich! And outside of my own group of friends at the gate I couldn't tell you who works, who doesn't, or what type of house they live in. People don't think of you half as much as you think they do.

Enjoy Christmas, keep an eye on her in January and if the problem persists make a formal complaint to the class teacher. If it is not handled to your satisfaction bring your complaint to the principal, if it's still not resolved go to the board of management. That is the procedure in all schools I know of.

quickq987

I am strict in the sense that i dont allow her out to play in the estate, I know a lot of parents are OK with this but too many things can happen in my opinion. I always make her clean her own room. she does not get dessert if she doesn't finish her dinner. I don't tolerate any kind of cheek or name calling and if she whinges or cries for something she will not get it. she only gets new toys at xmas and birthdays ( but she does get a lot of toys on these occasions). We do fun things together not as much as i would like but on Sundays we always try to do something with her i.e petting zoo or playground. when i said she doesn't like shopping it wasn't that i expected her to like it, i just meant that she always loved it before. I am looking at myself and i am questioning everything to see if the issue is at home. i dont want to push the issue so as people have said i am going to wait until January and hope things are better then.
thank you all for your advice, i will update as soon as i can
x

Big Bag of Chips

One other thing to be mindful of is at this time of year kids are exhausted. Then there's the added excitement of Santy coming. I know my own lads for the last 2 weeks have been on the verge of tears! And the slightest thing would set them off. I was talking to one of the teachers in the school the other day and she said all the kids are the same. She said always at this time of year there's a bit more tension around, and children who wouldn't usually cause trouble tend to get into little squabbles.

So don't be too worried about her being teary or not wanting to go shopping etc. See how she gets on in January.

thaidad

quickq987 wrote: »

I am strict in the sense that i dont allow her out to play in the estate, I know a lot of parents are OK with this but too many things can happen in my opinion. I always make her clean her own room. she does not get dessert if she doesn't finish her dinner. I don't tolerate any kind of cheek or name calling and if she whinges or cries for something she will not get it. she only gets new toys at xmas and birthdays ( but she does get a lot of toys on these occasions). We do fun things together not as much as i would like but on Sundays we always try to do something with her i.e petting zoo or playground. when i said she doesn't like shopping it wasn't that i expected her to like it, i just meant that she always loved it before. I am looking at myself and i am questioning everything to see if the issue is at home. i dont want to push the issue so as people have said i am going to wait until January and hope things are better then.
thank you all for your advice, i will update as soon as i can
x

Expect her to rebel hard in her teen years, you both work so not around as much the token every Sunday won't make it up in her mind you also don't let her go out to play and are very strict.

Moonbeam

Do remember that she is only 6 .
My eldest is nearly 6 and she is extremely intelligent , concientius and well mannered and all 3 of my bigger ones know to tidy up after themselves after meals ( 3 and 1)
We also jump in puddles ,get muddy ,have crazy art ,sing and dance around the house .
Make up crazy stories ,put on shows .
We go for cake ,picnics anything we can really and these are the times that the eldest talks to me and the time there is no pressure on them to be anyone except themselves .

Orion

You need to speak again with the principal and failing that contact the chairperson of the Board of Management. The parents should definitely be involved immediately.

quickq987

Don't get me wrong, we eat chocolate for breakfast, we watch T.V after school, we make believe and sing "Let it go" at the top of our lungs.?I don't claim to be perfect and I am not a stepford mother but I try to instill morals in her as i dont want her to grow up with a sense of entitlement as I see so many children have these days. I don't think that she will rebel against us as I think if i instill a sense of morale in her now i will not have to when she is older. My daughter is my world and no matter what happens at work, I will change my schedule if there is an issue with her. I don't think it is very fair to say that she will rebel against us because we are strict with her. From the perspective of someone who has buried a child, I would like to make it clear that nothing is more important than the happiness of my child. I may be strict to a certain degree but never at the expense of my daughter's happiness I welcome support and advice but surely the fact that i am posting here shows that i am a loving and supportive parent. I dont believe that given the small amount of information given that it is fair to say that there will be issues in her teenage years

ch750536

Kids are weird. Simple as that. Most of the time adults make things worse by interfering with a natural learning process. Be there and be open and non judgemental if they want to talk but also allow them to deal with things in their own way.

It sounds like your kid isn't as happy as you would like and you're trying to guess what the problem is an solve it. Maybe take a step back and allow them to come to you to talk. Whenever I get a moment alone with one of mine I always ask them 'what should we talk about'. This week we had a chat about a dwarf we met in Cork. 'She was a little girl with boobies'. They opened the conversation and drove the conversation, I just answered questions. The other day we talked about what bullets do to kill you, I was honest and educated the kids answering anything they asked without judging.

This approach leads to a very open and trusting relationship that works for us, may not work for you.

maryk123

One thing I learned about kids in school. Got to teacher tell them what happened don't believe something will always be done. If your child is still not happy go back in and if situation still not getting better go to principal or contact parents yourself. I in my naivety thought school would sort problems. They said they would be sorted but they didn't sort problems. Had to approach parents myself to sort it out. Not saying this is all schools but bare this in mind. You will know by your child.

byhookorbycrook

I certainly recommend that you go back to the teacher. Approaching other parents may backfire in a big way. Document meetings and what action was agreed.

poolsandles

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I certainly recommend that you go back to the teacher. Approaching other parents may backfire in a big way. Document meetings and what action was agreed.

This is great advice. Do not approach the other parents. There are a lot of parents out there who will not believe that their little darlings can do anything wrong and will try to blame you, say your child is lying etc.

Orion

Duplicate threads merged

Just as an FYI OP - when you post unregistered it has to be approved by the mods before it's visible - there was no need to register an account 10 mins later to post it again.

greengirl31

thaidad wrote: »

Expect her to rebel hard in her teen years, you both work so not around as much the token every Sunday won't make it up in her mind you also don't let her go out to play and are very strict.

This is a bit harsh isn't it ... OP sounds like she is doing a great job with her daughter ... All kids rebel to some degree when they're older but if there's some level of respect instilled at a young age it lasts a lifetime

DeclanJWhite

Don't be intimidated by the material status of the school and a phone call won't grab their attention like your presence will. Be as pushy as you like in this matter, I think. There is no more important matter than children behaving happily and properly together.

That's in dealing with the school. I think more important than that is have your daughter communicate with you naturally and unashamedly everything that's on her mind about the whole problem. You must be completely in her confidence, I would've thought.