Burial grounds.. who is responsible...?

W123-80's

Hello,
Firstly not sure if the thread title is accurate so feel free to modify MODs.

Basically I caught a very small piece on the radio yesterday, Galway County Council had announced that the situation with graveyards was nearing crisis point. Can't remember the exact stat, but they were saying that they were all nearly full.
That are appealing to members of the public to donate land or sell it at agricultural prices to ensure that the crisis is averted.
I didn't hear any specific mention of any particular brand of religion or creed, but I can only hope that if they are appealing for a Joe public to donate land or sell at agri prices that the burial ground will be a secular ground open to all class of dead person, so to speak..
Surely they are not appealing to the public on behalf a particular type of faith/religion??

Anyone else hear this piece?

I also assumed, incorrectly, that burial grounds were the responsibility of the Church.
If they are the responsibility of the council I assume that anyone can get buried in them??

Its a bit of a non story in fairness, it just made me think about the whole responsibility of burying dead people of all or no faith..

Found a link..
http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/74452/dearth-of-burial-plots-upsetting-councillors

lazygal

Local authorities or county councils usually own and run them, apart from ones that are specifically denominational which would usually be right beside a church or place of worship.

W123-80's

lazygal wrote: »

Local authorities or county councils usually own and run them, apart from ones that are specifically denominational which would usually be right beside a church or place of worship.

I see. So in this case the local authority burial grounds would be open to folk of all denominations or none I assume?

redfacedbear

W123-80's wrote: »

I see. So in this case the local authority burial grounds would be open to folk of all denominations or none I assume?

That's certainly the case for any Local Authority graveyard that I'm aware of.

A journalist had difficulty burying his mother in Donegal - as detailed in this thread so she ended up in a cemetary in Derry. I found it interesting that the Derry cemetary had separate Catholic and Protestant sections even as a publicly owned facility. I am also aware of some cemetaries that have a Muslim section - to facilitate them being buried the 'correct' way.

lazygal

W123-80's wrote: »

I see. So in this case the local authority burial grounds would be open to folk of all denominations or none I assume?

Yes, once you buy the plot they don't care. The most recent funeral I was at was a humanist ceremony for an atheist who was buried in the local graveyard.

Peregrinus

Most cemeteries are open to all comers. There are a few cemeteries run by minority religious denominations for their own members which may nto be. (I think you do need to be Jewish to be buried in a Jewish cemetery, for instance.)

A few cemeteries have separate sections for separate religious denominations. That's quite common in other countries; it's rarer, but not unknown, in Ireland. I think the deal is that the denominations concerned take some responsibility for maintenance and upkeep of their section, and in return have some say over who gets buried there and what kind of monuments get erected. They may, or may not, exercise that control so as to confine burial in their section to their members.

Most cemeteries in Ireland are run by local authorities. Glasnevin cemetery is run by a non-denominational trust and is open to people of all faiths and none. A few cemeteries are run commercially, as profit-making concerns; presumably they will also take anybody.

On edit: I am genuinely suprised to find, on following the link in redfacedbear's post, to find that there is a county in Ireland with no local authority burial grounds - or, at any rate, that there was in 2008. I am also surprised that apparently all the church-controlled burial grounds in Donegal confine burial to their members. This certainly isn't usual; rural Ireland is filled with small Anglican churchyards, and it's obvious from the gravestones, etc, that from way back many of the people buried in them were not Anglicans. Perhaps the situation in Donegal is a legacy of some particularly toxic Ulster sectarianism.

iguana

As local authority graveyards are the norm in most areas, why are there so many stories from only a few decades ago of bereaved parents having to organise secret burials of their stillborn or unbaptised children?

lazygal

iguana wrote: »

As local authority graveyards are the norm in most areas, why are there so many stories from only a few decades ago of bereaved parents having to organise secret burials of their stillborn or unbaptised children?

I asked the same question in the Tuam thread. I can only guess that the issues about burial in consecrated ground arose where parents wanted to use a family plot in a churchyard rather than a local authority one. Perhaps some areas had no options other than church burial grounds until more recent decades?

PopePalpatine

lazygal wrote: »

I asked the same question in the Tuam thread. I can only guess that the issues about burial in consecrated ground arose where parents wanted to use a family plot in a churchyard rather than a local authority one. Perhaps some areas had no options other than church burial grounds until more recent decades?

Maybe the local authority was unwilling to bury unbaptised/stillborn children due to religious dogmatism?

lazygal

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Maybe the local authority was unwilling to bury unbaptised/stillborn children due to religious dogmatism?

Where were 'dissenters' buried then? Or people who died by suicide? There's a very large cemetery near us and I remember seeing three stillborn babies' graves side by side, who died in the early 1980s. It stuck with me because they were relatlvey close in age (eg 1981, 1983, 1984 or something) and all from the same family. Its a local authority graveyard. Maybe it depended on which one you were dealing with at the time.

Peregrinus

iguana wrote: »

As local authority graveyards are the norm in most areas, why are there so many stories from only a few decades ago of bereaved parents having to organise secret burials of their stillborn or unbaptised children?

I'm not aware of that many storis from "only a few decades ago". It was common in Ireland until the mid to late nineteenth century for unbaptised people - nearly all of whom were infants or stillborn children - to be buried in a separate area, usually unconsecrated. You didn't need a "secret burial" unless you wished to bury your child in the consecrated area, without the permission of the clergyman who controlled it. (Usually, in Ireland, the Anglican clergyman; nearly all burial grounds in rural districts were attached to the Church of Ireland church, rather than the Catholic church.)

In urban areas, once municipal cemeteries and public cemeteries became common, the issue never arose.