Power of guards to search luggage

Rex Hiberniae

If I'm walking down the road with a backpack, handbag etc. without committing any crime, do the guards still have the power to search my bag etc.

conorh91

Does the person consent to the search?

Many people consent to a search because they confuse a question with a demand.

Regardless of whether the person consented or not, and so long as AGS give the person a general indication of why they are searching the luggage, yes Gardai they have rights to perform a search.

Luggage and handbags do not enjoy the same constitutional protection as the home or the person, so there would be no need for AGS to quoute the source of their powers to search which, incidentally, depend on the context of the search.

boardsuser1

The one they constantly abused with me when looking to conduct a search was section 23 misuse of drugs act even though i never took drugs, its an act that allows them to search you on suspicion

jpfahy

If you don't consent to a search then the Garda must inform you of their power to search. They could search if they reasonably suspected you of having or conveying stolen property, I think it's under the Criminal Law (Jurisdiction) Act 1976. A Garda cannot just randomly search people or their possessions. They must have a reasonable suspicion - that is key.

boardsuser1

jpfahy wrote: »

If you don't consent to a search then the Garda must inform you of their power to search. They could search if they reasonably suspected you of having or conveying stolen property, I think it's under the Criminal Law (Jurisdiction) Act 1976. A Garda cannot just randomly search people or their possessions.

Oh yes they can,i was on the receiving end many a time

boardsuser1

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=1QKXVKyMM--u7AaPkYHwDg&url=http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1977/en/act/pub/0012/sec0023.html&ved=0CBsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNFLv0i14jSm2RiD57aYWKtkZZ1mFA

conorh91

KC161 wrote: »

The one they constantly abused with me when looking to conduct a search was section 23 misuse of drugs act even though i never took drugs, its an act that allows them to search you on suspicion

I don't see how they could abuse you with an Act of the Oireachtas.

The only requirements are that the suspicion must have been fair and reasonable and honestly held on the basis of information available to the Garda at the time; and that they you be given some general information about why you were being searched.

What alternative model of policing do you propose?

I understand that nobody likes to have their bags searched, but there has to be some balance between privacy and functional policing, and I think s.23 strikes as agreeable a balance as is possible.

boardsuser1

conorh91 wrote: »

I don't see how they could abuse you with an Act of the Oireachtas.

The only requirements are that the suspicion must have been fair and reasonable and honestly held on the basis of information available to the Garda at the time; and that they you be given some general information about why you were being searched.

What alternative model of policing do you propose?

I understand that nobody likes to have their bags searched, but there has to be some balance between privacy and functional policing, and I think s.23 strikes as agreeable a balance as is possible.

I used drive modified cars when i was younger, that may have had something to do with it but never done drugs in my life, in my locality it's still a common act used to search randomly

braddun

they are looking for burglars



http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82108

Savage93

Rex Hiberniae wrote: »

If I'm walking down the road with a backpack, handbag etc. without committing any crime, do the guards still have the power to search my bag etc.

Don't see what the issue is, if you are not doing anything illegal why would you have any objection to having your stuff searched???????

aaakev

KC161 wrote: »

I used drive modified cars when i was younger, that may have had something to do with it but never done drugs in my life, in my locality it's still a common act used to search randomly

I agree amd have also been on the receiving end of this when i was younger even though id never been in trouble. There are definitely guards who misuse these powers if they don't like the look of you

conorh91

KC161 wrote: »

I used drive modified cars when i was younger, that may have had something to do with it but never done drugs in my life, in my locality it's still a common act used to search randomly

I have to say I'm not a fan of searches that are based on non-specific suspicions of general criminality, but like most people, I think general criminality is a far worse affliction for a neighbourhood than public inconvenience and fleeting embarrassment.

TheQuietFella

Savage93 wrote: »

Don't see what the issue is, if you are not doing anything illegal why would you have any objection to having your stuff searched???????

While I would tend to agree but how would you feel the same if it happened on multiple occasions?

boardsuser1

conorh91 wrote: »

I have to say I'm not a fan of searches that are based on non-specific suspicions of general criminality, but like most people, I think general criminality is a far worse affliction for a neighbourhood than public inconvenience and fleeting embarrassment.

Indeed i agree with you on that.

ted1

KC161 wrote: »

Oh yes they can,i was on the receiving end many a time

You must look dodgy... How did you come about bring stopped many times ?

Victor

Savage93 wrote: »

Don't see what the issue is, if you are not doing anything illegal why would you have any objection to having your stuff searched???????

Maybe you are in a hurry somewhere?

Maybe you value your privacy?

Maybe you are on the way to your mistress's place with a double dildo in your bag?

boardsuser1

ted1 wrote: »

You must look dodgy... How did you come about bring stopped many times ?

Driving done up cars with bodykits and loud exhausts

Ted_YNWA

Guards needs to have reasonable grounds for the search.

If you are regularly being stopped, you must be on their radar for some reason.

sheesh

Savage93 wrote: »

Don't see what the issue is, if you are not doing anything illegal why would you have any objection to having your stuff searched???????

maybe I have better things to be doing with my time.

It looks bad if someone that knows me sees me being searched by the cops.

boardsuser1

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

Guards needs to have reasonable grounds for the search.

If you are regularly being stopped, you must be on their radar for some reason.

Legality of the vehicle was one of their queries, usually the same stations,that was circa 10 years ago now however

Peregrinus

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

Guards needs to have reasonable grounds for the search.

If you are regularly being stopped, you must be on their radar for some reason.

. . . but not necessarily a good reason!

Savage93

Savage93 wrote: »

Don't see what the issue is, if you are not doing anything illegal why would you have any objection to having your stuff searched???????

I hate that attitude. It's because I'm not a scumbag and not doing anything illegal is exactly why I don't want to be.

I don't want a stranger pawing through my personal posessions

Happdog

The Gardaí usually target people who for want of a better term are disempowered in society, the young, poor or non-national. Some posters position that the Gardaí should be allowed search you because the innocent have nothing are arguing backwards.

To quote Terry Pratchett:

“Cheery was aware that Commander Vimes didn't like the phrase 'The innocent have nothing to fear', believing the innocent had everything to fear, mostly from the guilty but in the longer term even more from those who say things like 'The innoc ent have nothing to fear'.”

robman60

conorh91 wrote: »

Luggage and handbags do not enjoy the same constitutional protection as the home or the person, so there would be no need for AGS to quoute the source of their powers to search which, incidentally, depend on the context of the search.

So is a warrant required to search your pockets if you don't consent? I'm unsure because I know evidence was excluded in DPP v. McDonnell when drugs were found after a search of the pockets which had been removed from McDonnell.

However, some searching on Citizens Information seemed to indicate that a Garda could search your person if they had reasonable suspicion you were involved in a particular crime.

Savage93

Savage93 wrote: »

Don't see what the issue is, if you are not doing anything illegal why would you have any objection to having your stuff searched???????

How about constant harassment and bullying by the same group of cops who for no justifiable reason just happen to take a dislike to you?

Kenny Logins

Savage93 wrote: »

Don't see what the issue is, if you are not doing anything illegal why would you have any objection to having your stuff searched???????

Everyone that passes assumes you are.

percy212

Does this mean they can search luggage but not my body i.e. my clothing?

Either way I don't like the authorities having that power. My bag, my body, my property. I would absolutely object and let them take me to the station if they wished. Then I would ask for a formal statement of exactly why they want to search my belongings/person, following which I would make a complaint that there reasons were not good enough.

If something is written in law it should be able to withstand argument. Caving into "laws" without question, is not good for a society.

Hands off!

conorh91 wrote: »

Does the person consent to the search?

Many people consent to a search because they confuse a question with a demand.

Regardless of whether the person consented or not, and so long as AGS give the person a general indication of why they are searching the luggage, yes Gardai they have rights to perform a search.

Luggage and handbags do not enjoy the same constitutional protection as the home or the person, so there would be no need for AGS to quoute the source of their powers to search which, incidentally, depend on the context of the search.

Markcheese

Savage93 wrote: »

Don't see what the issue is, if you are not doing anything illegal why would you have any objection to having your stuff searched???????

You're right but it can depends how it's done - a grumpy surly gard rooting through your stuff in the middle of the road wouldn't thrill me -

conorh91

percy212 wrote: »

Does this mean they can search luggage but not my body i.e. my clothing?

No. It just means that the courts have in the past tended to differentiate between the constitutional rights vs the legal rights of the person, regarding powers of search.

It was probably too technical a point to have been relevant.

It doesn't mean that Gardai need a warrant to search your clothes.

They need the permission of the Superintendent before they search your underpants, but lets not get into your underpants.

Savage93

TheQuietFella wrote: »

While I would tend to agree but how would you feel the same if it happened on multiple occasions?

As stated already anyone with nothing to hide should have no problem with search/searches.

Savage93

Victor wrote: »

Maybe you are in a hurry somewhere?

Maybe you value your privacy?

Maybe you are on the way to your mistress's place with a double dildo in your bag?

Anyone with nothing to hide should have no problem with search/searches

Savage93

sheesh wrote: »

maybe I have better things to be doing with my time.

It looks bad if someone that knows me sees me being searched by the cops.

we all have better things to do with our time but if you were the subject, by consenting and co-operating you'll be on your way in no time.

Maybe you do have something to hide then if you'r concerned what people think.

234

Savage93 wrote: »

we all have better things to do with our time but if you were the subject, by consenting and co-operating you'll be on your way in no time.

Maybe you do have something to hide then if you'r concerned what people think.

You might have something to hide that is perfectly legal. What if you happened to be carrying around some weird niche pornography in your bag. Nothing illegal, but most people wouldn't want this exposed on the high street. Good reason to want to Gardai to only be allowed to.search when certain thresholds are met.

Savage93

Deleted User wrote: »

I hate that attitude. It's because I'm not a scumbag and not doing anything illegal is exactly why I don't want to be.

I don't want a stranger pawing through my personal posessions

And I hate your attitude. If everyone had your attitude the Gardai could search nobody and every criminal could just go about his business without interference. If you were a victim of crime I wonder if you'd feel the same

Savage93

Deleted User wrote: »

How about constant harassment and bullying by the same group of cops who for no justifiable reason just happen to take a dislike to you?

So a group of cops for no justifiable reason just happen to take a dislike to you.
Don't know what you're smoking bud or what world you'r living in. Of course GROUPS of cops have nothing better to do than harass people for the craic

conorh91

Savage93 wrote: »

As stated already anyone with nothing to hide should have no problem with search/searches.

Sometimes I get the feeling these repeated opinions are only designed to provoke controversy.

It suffices to say that if you believe the "nothing to hide/ nothing to fear" mantra, you are in the distinct minority.

Like most people, I am a good, law-abiding citizen, but I still wouldn't want a camera in my face 24/7; or routine searches every time I leave and enter my home. I have nothing incriminating to hide, but I still value my privacy and my right to be left alone which is, to quote a US Supreme Court judge, the beginning of all freedoms.

Savage93

conorh91 wrote: »

Sometimes I get the feeling these repeated opinions are only designed to provoke controversy.

It suffices to say that if you believe the "nothing to hide/ nothing to fear" mantra, you are in the distinct minority.

Like most people, I am a good, law-abiding citizen, but I still wouldn't want a camera in my face 24/7; or routine searches every time I leave and enter my home. I have nothing incriminating to hide, but I still value my privacy and my right to be left alone which is, to quote a US Supreme Court judge, the beginning of all freedoms.

I am merely expressing my view as you are and am entitled to do so.
NOBODY (except you) mentioned 24/7 camera in anyone's face or routine searches every time anyone enters and leaves home.
If stop and search helped reduce crime/apprehend criminals I'm ALL for it

conorh91

Savage93 wrote: »

NOBODY (except you) mentioned 24/7 camera in anyone's face or routine searches every time anyone enters and leaves home.

You said:

anyone with nothing to hide should have no problem with search/searches.

"Anyone", "nothing", and "no problem" are absolute terms. You gave an absolutist justification of invading the privacy rights of individuals, on the basis that those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear.

If you now want to amend your statement, and claim that powers of search are permissible only in limited cases, fine.

But that's not what you originally said.

And I am not telepathic.

Yorker

conorh91 wrote: »

Sometimes I get the feeling these repeated opinions are only designed to provoke controversy.

It suffices to say that if you believe the "nothing to hide/ nothing to fear" mantra, you are in the distinct minority.

Like most people, I am a good, law-abiding citizen, but I still wouldn't want a camera in my face 24/7; or routine searches every time I leave and enter my home. I have nothing incriminating to hide, but I still value my privacy and my right to be left alone which is, to quote a US Supreme Court judge, the beginning of all freedoms.

words of a cop or a cop fanboy

Carawaystick

Maybe the gardaí should record in writing the reasons for the search. So if a complaint is made against the gard for abusing their power, a court or gsoc or someone can adjudicate if the suspicion is reasonable.

conorh91

Yorker wrote: »

words of a cop or a cop fanboy

You think a "cop fanboy" is a likely opponent of a robust power of search?

For the record, I've seen many Gardai's hard work being frustrated and undermined by the legal professions. I've seen conscientious, enthusiastic Gardai portrayed as ambivalent and cynical shysters by defence counsel. Needless to say, my sympathy tends to rest with the Gardai.

But I have never met any responsible adult in any profession who adheres to the "nothing to hide/ nothing to fear" maxim.

percy212

Quite the opposite I think Yorker. Maybe you misread the post.

Yorker wrote: »

words of a cop or a cop fanboy

goz83

I would not like to be searched.....unless she was good looking.