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Unique addresses - how do we do it?

  • 19-12-2014 2:07pm
    #1
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    How would the state go about getting us to be like every other country in the world - that is we have unique addresses?

    1. It has to be done cheaply.

    2. It has to be robust, and acceptable to residents and the state.

    3. It has to be the responsibility of one agency (or at least for each address). Dept of Environment, Dept of Comms, or Co. Councils).

    4. It has to be acceptable to the majority of householders.

    I would suggest that the Co. Councils are first in line. All new planning permission include a unique address, acceptable to the Co Council. All urban areas to sort out numbering problems, as these already have road names).

    All addresses must take the form of

    Number, road name,
    Townland,
    Postal town,
    County. Postcode

    Obviously, townland could also be the postal town and could be omitted.

    All roads are named or otherwise numbered systematically, and house numbers from one end, with odds one side and evens the other. Rural roads would be numbered by distance.

    The county council could propose names for a plebicite, with a default number if there is no agreement.

    Examples of bad names would be the Iranian government naming the road the British Embassy was on in Tehran - Bobby Sands Boulevard, as an intended insult. I would not expect that kind of thing, but politicians putting their own name forward would be an example of an unacceptable approach.

    I am sure there are other ideas.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    How would the state go about getting us to be like every other country in the world - that is we have unique addresses?

    Rural houses in France don't all have unique addresses.
    All addresses must take the form of

    Number, road name,
    Townland,
    Postal town,
    County. Postcode
    What would you do in the case of houses not served by a road?


    Or where the nearest road is in a different townland to the house?

    Or where the current address is
    "7 Pimlico
    Dublin 8"

    Should this now expand to
    7 Pimlico
    Dublin8
    Co. Dublin d08 9f3s

    Where's the benefit there?


    What happens when a rural road is encroached by a town and a load of new homes are built on it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭ Bray Head


    It would be contentious, complicated, expensive, cause local divisions and potentially mass confusion during the transition from the new to old system.

    It would be nice to have I admit, but not nearly as nice as a postcode system with unique codes.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    It is not instead of but as well as a well designed post code (which Eircode is not).

    What is required is is a way to do it, not reasons for not doing it.

    There are particularities that require special attention.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell



    What would you do in the case of houses not served by a road?

    Only houses on an island are not served by some type of road.
    Or where the nearest road is in a different townland to the house?
    So what. The address requires a road named and a townland. Whatever works and is acceptable.
    Or where the current address is
    "7 Pimlico
    Dublin 8"

    Should this now expand to
    7 Pimlico
    Dublin8
    Co. Dublin d08 9f3s

    Whatever works. Conventions will evolve.
    What happens when a rural road is encroached by a town and a load of new homes are built on it?

    They get a new address along with their planning decision.

    It is possible to devise lots of reasons why unique addresses cannot be achieved, but we should start to eradicate them - first for new builds, and also for urban areas where numbers are stupid or there are only house names. Another area that a start could be made, and is already happening, is by erecting townland names on roadside plaques.

    County Councils should make a start, if only out of local pride.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,634 ✭✭✭ keeponhurling



    Examples of bad names would be the Iranian government naming the road the British Embassy was on in Tehran - Bobby Sands Boulevard, as an intended insult. I would not expect that kind of thing.

    But wasn't he an MP at Westminster?

    Seems appropriate to me


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ ardmacha


    How would the state go about getting us to be like every other country in the world - that is we have unique addresses?

    1. It has to be done cheaply.

    2. It has to be robust, and acceptable to residents and the state.

    3. It has to be the responsibility of one agency (or at least for each address). Dept of Environment, Dept of Comms, or Co. Councils).

    4. It has to be acceptable to the majority of householders.

    I would suggest that the Co. Councils are first in line. All new planning permission include a unique address, acceptable to the Co Council. All urban areas to sort out numbering problems, as these already have road names).

    All addresses must take the form of

    Number, road name,
    Townland,
    Postal town,
    County. Postcode

    I think you retain the present system of road names in urban areas and townlands outwith. Road names are the spawn of the devil, you are introducing a second system and there is infinite scope to argue about this. Road names have done terrible damage to heritage in NI.

    You number houses in the townland on a grid. Say 30 x 30 20m grid, the centre point of townland is 225 or some such. You have the GPS for the centre point of the townland and add the grid adjustment and you are within 20m of the house. If houses are close together there could be some issues distinguishing them, but that is true anyway. Really large odd shaped townlands might have to subdivided into an East and West or Upper and Lower, but this would only be 1% of them.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    But wasn't he an MP at Westminster?

    Seems appropriate to me

    It was intended as an insult. He was a political prisoner/terrorist depending on your point of view.

    If I recall, it was after his death.


  • Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭ Bray Head


    It would have to work in Irish and English. Dublin street names have faux Irish translations "Sráid Suffolk", etc. I have no idea if Irish speakers actually use these.

    What I do know is that in Gaeltacht areas there are colloquial names for roads that only exist in Irish. Would these have to get faux English translations that no one would use either?

    The Irish address system has evolved over the centuries through convention and practice rather than by top-down design. Trying to impose a structure on it at this point would be fraught with these kind of innumerable problems.

    From next year every dwelling will have a shiny new postcode anyway. Personally I will barely use old-fashioned addresses anymore. Regarding posting letters:

    -For anyone with a townland type address I will just use their name and eircode when posting something
    -For anyone in an urban area I will just use the their house number and street name, and their eircode

    If I'm trying to physically get to the location I'll just use the eircode.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    You make very valid points. The language could be a show stopper.

    I would like a few actions to be taken.

    1. Local Authorities or Revenue to be the agency responsible for official addresses. Revenue do the property tax, and other taxes. LAs do planning.

    2. All urban addresses to be confirmed by the above agency, and alterations to be agreed by negotiations/decision. Renumbering has been done in the past.

    3. Rural addresses to be on an agreed format at least.

    4. All new buildings to be given an official address at planning decision time.

    At least the problem would begin to be reduced. Eircode could be part of this or separate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    Only houses on an island are not served by some type of road.
    The house I'm thinking of is on common land, on mainland Ireland. An elderly bachelor lives there. I think it was in the town council area of a 10k+ town, or immediately beside the town council boundary.
    Whatever works. Conventions will evolve.
    I think if you're proposing a scheme or standard, evolving isn't one of the features that should happen.
    Another area that a start could be made, and is already happening, is by erecting townland names on roadside plaques.
    This is definitely a good idea. Parts of Conemara have these cut in limestone slabs.
    Another simple thing would be widely available townland maps. I saw one on a geological state website, but I was zoomed out too far when I turned the townland layer on and the browser had a hissy fit and died.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,394 Sheldons Brain


    Another simple thing would be widely available townland maps. I saw one on a geological state website, but I was zoomed out too far when I turned the townland layer on and the browser had a hissy fit and died.

    Openstreetmap have done good work on townlands in some parts of the country, these are digitised from out of copyright 19th century maps.

    County Wexford is a good example
    http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2718372#map=13/52.4587/-6.8267


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