Cat killed by dog.

Edgarfrndly

Today, a lurcher got into our back garden and savaged our family pet cat. The owner was walking a number of dogs. None were muzzled or on a lead, even one of his pitbulls

I contacted the Gardaí and they came up, but said that they cannot do anything because it occured on private property so it's a civil affair. The Gardaí also said I would not be able to get the dog put down, as the dog warden can only operate on public space. They said I can press for a civil claim however.

Does anyone know my options from here? I'm totally heartbroken. We've had the cat for 12 or 13 years now and she will be a huge loss to our family.

boomerang

Have no advice for you, I'm just *so* sorry for your loss. A terrible way to lose your precious cat, my heart goes out to you and your family.

RentDayBlues

I can't offer any advice but so sorry for your loss

youtube!

I can only imagine if there was a toddler in the back garden, these things just should not occur and the owner should be wholly responsible. Stupid archaic laws.

wandatowell

Jesus thats a horrible situation.


Personally, I would confront the dog owner. Well confront would be the wrong word to use but I would certainly approach him/her and offer some choice words about responsible pet ownership.

eviltwin

I am so sorry for your loss, I don't know what you can do from a legal point of view but can you contact the dog warden? Leaving a dog off lead in a public area is surely a breach of the owners responsibilities?

onethreefive

I'm so sorry that I cant offer any advice but I just want to say I am so so sorry for your loss. If that happened my cat/dog I would be absolutely devastated.

Edgarfrndly

Thanks guys. I've been so hard on myself today for not being able to get out to her in time to protect her. I was sleeping in bed, and woke up to the barks from my little pet dog trying to save her. I watched her be savaged through my window. I threw something out the window to try break it up, and ran out the back garden - but by then he had carried her up the field to finish her. When I found her body, she was savaged.

I've cried more than a 32 year old man should cry. I really loved her so much. She was theraputic and helped with my depression.

I talked to the owner and got the Gardaí to his house. He's only a 15 year old kid and seemed genuinely sorry, so I tried to be fair with him. But I feel that the dog is a huge danger, and he needs to be put down. It's partly me trying to punish the dog for killing my cat, and partly to make sure it never happens again. The owner needs to learn about responsible pet ownership.

I love dogs and would never want one put down, but I'm torn here on it. In any case, it would have to be voluntarily put down by it's owner. Otherwise, I'd seek to press for civil damages.

tk123

youtube! wrote: »

I can only imagine if there was a toddler in the back garden/QUOTE]

Ah come on now - my dogs bark at cats all the time but they don't go around the park snacking on toddlers.

OP sorry about your poor cat. Have you contacted the dog warden? Yes it happened on your property but the owner wasn't in control if the dog was able to run into your garden?

Rips

That is devastating I'm so very sorry.

You should probably be dealing with the child's parents though, and perhaps pursuing a civil case with them? Legally he is not old enough to held responsible/be held accountable to remain in control of the dog.

Sighthounds can have a high prey drive, it does not mean there is a fault in the dogs temperament, just that was not looked after/kept under control.

Many family dogs would not think twice about doing similar to a rabbit, or a cat in certain situations.

Edgarfrndly

tk123 wrote: »

youtube! wrote: »

I can only imagine if there was a toddler in the back garden/QUOTE]

Ah come on now - my dogs bark at cats all the time but they don't go around the park snacking on toddlers.

OP sorry about your poor cat. Have you contacted the dog warden? Yes it happened on your property but the owner wasn't in control if the dog was able to run into your garden?

I rang the dog warden today, but the department said he was out on duty and would call me back. No reply, so I'll call them again tomorrow. And no, the owner didn't have him under control. No leash, no muzzle. He had a number of dogs with him including a pitbull.

Edgarfrndly

Rips wrote: »

That is devastating I'm so very sorry.

You should probably be dealing with the child's parents though, and perhaps pursuing a civil case with them? Legally he is not old enough to held responsible/be held accountable to remain in control of the dog.

His parents weren't at home when I called up with the Gardaí - they were in work. I'll pop up to them tomorrow for a chat. I was just too upset to go back up again tonight.

borderlinemeath

youtube! wrote: »

I can only imagine if there was a toddler in the back garden, these things just should not occur and the owner should be wholly responsible. Stupid archaic laws.

Don't fudge the issue with "won't somebody think of the children" strawman argument. There is absolutely no reason to believe that a dog would attack a child because it attacked another animal. It's a natural instinct for some hunting dogs to catch what they believe is prey, ie an animal smaller than it. It is in no way natural for a dog to attack a child in the same manner.

All that said OP, I hugely sympathise with you, nobody should have to lose their pet like that, it's horrific, and the fact that the law is skewed because it happened in your own garden is worse still. If as you say it's a 15yr old, then he is breaking the law by walking a pitbull under the restricted breed legislation so he could be prosecuted (or the legal owner of the RB) that way. Not that anything will bring back your pet.

aonb

OP thats a terrible thing to happen to your beloved pet.
I have a kitten now for the first time.
Before now, my dogs were so anti-cat - one dog who recently died, was totally out of control when it came to cats - it was like a red haze when he saw a cat.
Yet he was a wonderful dog in every way, I adored him, but he would kill any cat/rabbit he could catch. Total instinct of a hunter/terrier.

A lurcher is a hunter. It is their nature to chase and kill. You cant fault a dog following his instinct. Not much comfort to you, when your poor cat was killed I know. ALso the kid walking dogs not on leashes etc and not under control is not on. Take care and sending you very best wishes after your horrible experience

youtube!

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Don't fudge the issue with "won't somebody think of the children" strawman argument. There is absolutely no reason to believe that a dog would attack a child because it attacked another animal. It's a natural instinct for some hunting dogs to catch what they believe is prey, ie an animal smaller than it. It is in no way natural for a dog to attack a child in the same manner.

All that said OP, I hugely sympathise with you, nobody should have to lose their pet like that, it's horrific, and the fact that the law is skewed because it happened in your own garden is worse still. If as you say it's a 15yr old, then he is breaking the law by walking a pitbull under the restricted breed legislation so he could be prosecuted (or the legal owner of the RB) that way. Not that anything will bring back your pet.

Ah so dogs never attack children is that what you believe? Here are a few links for you to ponder....

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/boy-13-loses-cheek-after-4595942

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Child-watches-terror-mum-attacked-dog/story-19766887-detail/story.html

http://www.lurcher.org/llink/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90593&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=caa4dcf21ea1944342768a7417e61f57


and furthermore let me tell you this I have 3 dogs all very docile and happy but I wouldn't let them off leash in a public area, it's called being responsible. If I take them off their lead it is in either a designated area or in a field which I will have checked to make certain no people are present, if I see someone approach they go back on lead immediately. I know the chances that they would actually attack are small but it would be naive and stupid to imagine it could not happen.

Pumpkinseeds

That is so awful. I'm so sorry for your loss.

borderlinemeath

youtube! wrote: »

Ah so dogs never attack children is that what you believe? Here are a few links for you to ponder....

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/boy-13-loses-cheek-after-4595942

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Child-watches-terror-mum-attacked-dog/story-19766887-detail/story.html

http://www.lurcher.org/llink/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90593&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=caa4dcf21ea1944342768a7417e61f57



and furthermore let me tell you this I have 3 dogs all very docile and happy but I wouldn't let them off leash in a public area, it's called being responsible. If I take them off their lead it is in either a designated area or in a field which I will have checked to make certain no people are present, if I see someone approach they go back on lead immediately. I know the chances that they would actually attack are small but it would be naive and stupid to imagine it could not happen.

I'm not even going to bother opening your links to red tops and the like that sensationalise every dog attack on a child. You obviously don't understand how dog behaviour works - certain dog breeds are natural hunters but that does not make them naturally aggressive to humans. To assume because a dog attacks a cat/bird/rodent that it will attack a child is naive and just stirring it.

FFS Disney have portrayed a cat chasing a mouse for the past 75 years, and every so often the dog comes in and chases the cat. It's natural behaviour. It's not natural for a dog to come into a garden and attack a child.

Do what you wish with your own dogs, I don't need to know. It's not about what you do, it's about you trying to stir up shiit because you don't know how basic dog behaviour works. It's about a 15yr old who has just got himself in a whole lot of trouble because he probably got away with walking the dogs offlead for a while and didn't think through the consequences. Or was never educated by his parents who probably passed on their lack of responsibility.

youtube!

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I'm not even going to bother opening your links to red tops and the like that sensationalise every dog attack on a child. You obviously don't understand how dog behaviour works - certain dog breeds are natural hunters but that does not make them naturally aggressive to humans. To assume because a dog attacks a cat/bird/rodent that it will attack a child is naive and just stirring it.

FFS Disney have portrayed a cat chasing a mouse for the past 75 years, and every so often the dog comes in and chases the cat. It's natural behaviour. It's not natural for a dog to come into a garden and attack a child.

Do what you wish with your own dogs, I don't need to know. It's not about what you do, it's about you trying to stir up shiit because you don't know how basic dog behaviour works. It's about a 15yr old who has just got himself in a whole lot of trouble because he probably got away with walking the dogs offlead for a while and didn't think through the consequences. Or was never educated by his parents who probably passed on their lack of responsibility.

Don't patronise me please. I know it's not natural but it can and does every so often occur, which is why I made it clear that to be a responsible dog owner you must take these potential conditions into account. Dogs are non-connotative creatures and they don't think in human logic so that is why occasionally these attacks do occur, answer me this do you let your dogs off leash in public areas? It's your choice of course but to me that is irresponsible dog ownership. As for those red tops I can find you links from the guardian if you prefer ,it doesn't alter the fact that yes dogs can bite kids when poor owners fail to adhere to basic common sense.

DBB

Okay folks.
There are to be no more posts about dogs attacking children in this thread, or accusing other posters of being irresponsible dog owners.
This argument is off-topic, and will inevitably bring this thread to a place it doesn't need to go... because it always does.
Any more off-topic posting will result in warnings etc being issued.
Thanks,
DBB

borderlinemeath

youtube! wrote: »

Don't patronise me please. I know it's not natural but it can and does every so often occur, which is why I made it clear that to be a responsible dog owner you must take these potential conditions into account. Dogs are non-connotative creatures and they don't think in human logic so that is why occasionally these attacks do occur, answer me this do you let your dogs off leash in public areas? It's your choice of course but to me that is irresponsible dog ownership. As for those red tops I can find you links from the guardian if you prefer ,it doesn't alter the fact that yes dogs can bite kids when poor owners fail to adhere to basic common sense.

You're failing to understand the basics of dog behaviour, and of course you can find individual events to back up your argument, but dogs are not naturally aggressive towards humans, yet can be naturally aggressive towards animals, yet you assume the "thank god it wasn't a toddler in the garden" hysterical stance. You are taking this whole disaster out of context and it's not adding to the thread nor helping the OP, who don't forget has lost his pet.

It's none of your business what I do with my dogs, how or where I walk them, but believe me, I am the complete opposite of irresponsible when it comes to mine and other peoples pets.

borderlinemeath

Sorry, posted before DBB

DBB

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

I contacted the Gardaí and they came up, but said that they cannot do anything because it occured on private property so it's a civil affair. The Gardaí also said I would not be able to get the dog put down, as the dog warden can only operate on public space. They said I can press for a civil claim however.

This is not *quite* right.
The legislation states that when a dog is not at the premises of its owner/minder, it must be kept under effectual control. There is nothing in this legislation about where the dog can and can't be under effectual control. Which means that if a dog runs onto your property and damages you, the owner has broken the law even though the incident happened on private property, because their dog was not under effectual control. So, in this case, the owner can potentially be fined for not having their dog under effectual control.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/sec0009.html#sec9

Furthermore, and leading on from the above, Section 22 of the Control of Dogs Act provides for judgement to be made against "Dangerous Dogs". In such a case, you would have to convince the judge that the dog could be construed as being dangerous AND not kept under effectual control. If the judge is successfully convinced that the dog is dangerous, he can order that the dog is kept under proper control, or that it is euthanased.
Where you may fall foul of this Act is that specific protection is given to humans and livestock (which does not include dogs or cats), and you *may* find it difficult to convince a judge that an attack on a cat contitutes a dangerous dog: an attack on livestock or humans is pretty much cut and dried.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/act/pub/0032/sec0022.html#sec22

So in this respect, a civil case may be the way to go in order to get financial compensation... but the judge in a civil case cannot afaik order the destruction of the dog.

youtube!

DBB wrote: »

Okay folks.
There are to be no more posts about dogs attacking children in this thread, or accusing other posters of being irresponsible dog owners.
This argument is off-topic, and will inevitably bring this thread to a place it doesn't need to go... because it always does.
Any more off-topic posting will result in warnings etc being issued.
Thanks,
DBB

Fair enough but I never accused anyone of anything I simply asked a question.

Edgarfrndly

Thank you DBB - your post has been very helpful. Will investigate further, much appreciated.

3:30am and I still haven't slept yet. Doubt I will tonight. Still have flashbacks.

braddun

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/animal_welfare_and_control/control_of_dogs.html

ShaShaBear

It's a sad state of affairs and I know your grief is riding the driver's seat right now, but please rethink getting the poor dog put down because of this incident. It won't bring your cat back, I doubt it will give you any satisfaction or justice, and the dog only acted naturally while given scope to do so by the irresponsible owners who didn't keep such a high-prey dog properly restrained.

Please just sit down and think logically... You think that dogs should be killed for killing cats? Keeping in mind that cats look absolutely nothing like people and the desire to kill one does not, under any circumstances, suggest the linked desire to kill another.

A more appropriate solution would be a civil case, or push to have the dog rehomed to a more deserving and responsible family.

Frog Song

No advice, I'm just so sorry for your loss. What a horrible thing to witness, the poor pet Awful, really sorry OP.

daUbiq

What locality did this happen in?

DBB

youtube! wrote: »

Fair enough but I never accused anyone of anything I simply asked a question.

You did ask a question, yes. But then you accused another poster of being an irresponsible owner. You can attempt to hide the accusation any way you like, but the accusation is abundantly clear:

youtube! wrote: »

answer me this do you let your dogs off leash in public areas? It's your choice of course but to me that is irresponsible dog ownership.

Furthermore, you are surely aware that discussing mod decisions on-thread is against the forum charter, and is not tolerated anywhere on this site because it drags threads off-topic. In the process of being warned not to drag the thread off-topic, you dragged the thread off-topic... as a result, you have received a yellow-card warning.
If you want to discuss mod actions, you must do so by PM.
Thanks,
DBB

twill

I am so sorry that you had to go through something so traumatising. I witnessed something similar when I was a child and it has never left me. Take care, OP.

kimmykins

Very sorry to hear about your cat. such an awful thing for you to witness.