If 4G isn’t working, why stick to the same approach for 5G?

bealtine

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/17/if_4g_isnt_working_why_stick_to_the_same_approach_for_5g/

clohamon

I do wonder what proportion of mobile data is transferred while users are moving at speed, and whether 5g is a hugely complicated system to cater for a market that does not exist.

It looks in any case like the definition of 5g is settling on 'as 4g with ubiquitous wifi with some femto-cells'

watty

There is no 5G standard.

fergus1001

watty wrote: »

There is no 5G standard.

Wrong.

watty

Link for a real 5G standard rather than snake oil press releases?

Even 4G is meaningless as much LTE and WiMax (Techs used to implement 4G) are not used in a way to achieve 4G speeds and capacity.

fergus1001

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2834072/samsung-claims-data-speed-test-30-times-faster-than-lte.html

Already tested

watty

No, the article is pure speculation

Did you read it?

Clue it's '5G' in quotes
It's a news site
It's a press release about a meaningless lab demo

Standards for 5G, however, have not been agreed upon.

“No one knows what the 5G standard will look like,” said Lee Youngso, a senior market analyst at IDC in Seoul.

It's not referencing ANY agreed standard or giving any information to judge real performance.

So-called 5G successor networks to 4G, which currently operate around 100Mbps, could allow users to download a movie in only one second.

The tests were performed on a 28GHz network.

"So called"

Also 28GHz is pure line of sight, useless for handsets or indoor use from outdoor mast.

It's really easy to have 100x real world 4G speeds at 28GHz.

The article says nothing about channel size (200MHz gives 10x speed of 4G), or range (In same room gives x5 peak speed of LTE, or pair of 1m dishes at 10km) or power.

It's a totally meaningless press release.

There is no 5G standard mentioned, because there aren't any yet.

It's likely 5G is more about management, say using 3G at 900MHZ or 1800MHz and 4G at 2.5GHz at the same time and seamless switching between bands without losing connection. It won't be about more speed per MHz of channel, as that's impossible for real world portable gadgets.

The Cush

fergus1001 wrote: »

Wrong.

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/5g-is-coming-worlds-wireless-industry-confident-5g-will-be-up-and-running-by-2020-31032010.html

With discussions on setting 5G technical standards yet to begin, a final standard is expected in 2019, experts say.

bealtine

European group wants 5G to be 100x faster than 4G
Panel also wants future standard to account for Internet of Things


http://www.techcentral.ie/european-group-wants-5g-100x-faster-4g/

5G should go 100 times faster than 4G, connect 1,000 times as many devices and carry 1,000 times as much traffic in a given area, a European Commission group says.

Those goals are laid out in a vision statement that the Commission’s 5G Public-Private Partnership (5G PPP) released on Tuesday at Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. The document is intended to bring a European perspective to discussions about the next generation of mobile technology, which will be hashed out in a standards effort beginning next year. Commercial deployments should begin in 2020.

The group’s recommendations echoed what vendors and carriers are saying about 5G here, looking to the new standard to solidify many of the trends already in play: more spectrum, mixed networks and new kinds of connected devices.

Getting Europe on the same page about what 5G should look like should help to prevent the kinds of standards wars that slowed earlier cellular standards, said Gunther Oettinger, European Commissioner for Digital Economy and Society, at a press conference announcing the report yesterday.

5G will be an evolution from 4G, so the move will be less disruptive than the shift from 3G to LTE. But the new technology will have to be ready to connect a lot more things, including driverless cars and Internet of Things devices, the paper said. It’s expected to have a big impact on industries that weren’t necessarily on the agenda when 4G was being developed, including transportation, payments and health care, said Nokia Networks chief technology officer Hossein Moiin.

Consumers should be able to expect 50Mb/s on 5G where they typically need it, and high-speed service should be more reliable.

But 5G will have to do more than deliver fat pipes to consumers. Instead, the standard should have three goals to meet the requirements for different uses: High throughput for services like video, low energy use for long-lived battery-powered devices such as sensors, and short delays for time-sensitive uses like self-driving cars and remote medicine, the group said.

The new standard will need to cover many new technologies for cellular networks themselves, including heterogeneous networks of small and large cells and Wi-Fi. Meeting its goals for 5G will require more spectrum from untapped bands, especially ones above 6GHz, the group said. High-frequency mobile networks may take years to become practical, but vendors such as Nokia are already demonstrating it at MWC.

In the background, carriers will need NFV (network functions virtualisation) to scale out their infrastructure and roll out new types of services, the group said. That work is already happening, too.

One thing that needs work soon is getting European countries on the same page about what frequencies to use for mobile, Oettinger said.

“Before the end of this decade we need a European spectrum policy, or we can’t use new technologies,” he said.

Stephen Lawson, IDG News Service

The Cush

Links

Mobile World Congress 2015: EU unveils its vision for 5G

http://5g-ppp.eu/5g-ppp-mwc/

watty

5G should go 100 times faster than 4G, connect 1,000 times as many devices and carry 1,000 times as much traffic in a given area, a European Commission group says.

You'd need 30 times to 200 times as many masts for that much more traffic.
100 times faster needs EVERY lampost to be a mast and every home / office to have 1 to many femto points.

There is no more spectrum efficiency to get.

There is a lot of nonsense being talked.
The main thing of 5G will be the feature cable DOCSIS has of combining channels. Allowing a device to use a mix of 800/900/1800/2100/2300/2500/3500 at the same time so one band is not filled up while another is underutilised, with any mix of Edge/3G / LTE etc on the channels.
So a PEAK speed might be 5 times faster and capacity with existing infrastructure maybe x2

Where is the economic pressure to have even x10 as many masts for the SAME number of customers?

They DO want to replace home and company WiFi points with Femto cells. Qualcomm wants more patent revenue so they want LTE/U on WiFi bands!

So 5G also will be about fleecing consumer with femto cells.

Most of what is being written about 5G is fantasy. FOLLOW THE MONEY.
No company is going to install MORE infrastructure for same revenue.

Where would revenue come from to give even x10 current speeds? It absolutely can't EVER be done with out at least x10 as many masts.

watty

ITU says landline infrastructure / backhaul considerations are a vital part of developing any 5G Spec. There is no 5G spec yet, only some ideas.