Testosterone issues or mental health issue?

Under_Graduate

Hi, I was just posting this on another forum.
Instead of re-typing, I'm just gonna paste it here

It's basically relevant to motivation and sleep issues - I appreciate any incites.

I was training to be a professional kickboxer until these issues really took over - just as a little back story.


PS - I'm well aware there's a policy of not providing diagnosis; I'm not looking for any, I've had plenty already as you will read.

I have recently been told that testosterone levels may be my issue, so I'm going to the doc to get them checked out.
I'm just throwing this out in contrast to it possibly being a mental health problem.

**

I've seen several threads on here dealing with insomnia issues.

I've had insomnia since I was about 21 or just before. I'm 28 now.
But that's really the least of my concerns.

Previous to my turning 21, I was super motivated.
In fact, I was probably the most energetic person I knew.
I probably over did it a little in terms of training, but the fact is there was ton of energy there.

Up before college for a run, college all day, training in the evening, party once or twice a week and sleep in on weekends, all no problem.

I don't know what the **** happened, but I went abroad to do my work placement at the end of 3rd year, and noticed that on weekends, I wasn't able to sleep in like I used to be able to.

The next year at college, 4th and final year, I was getting like, 4 hours average sleep a night, but I could still function - train every day and get my degree finished.

Went abroad again for work after college, lasted about 6 months and had to quit my job.
Spent the next four years living like a bum, working part time, screwing whores by the dozen, barely able to train properly but focusing on learning lifting exercises and calesthetics cause it was more managable + I could take it at my own pace.

Then I totally burn the **** out, and low and behold, I say **** it and move back in with my parents (the catalyst being a nervous breakdown), where I am now and have been for the last 6 months, and they are now on the verge of kicking me the **** out cause of my dirt lazy attitude.

But the root of these issues it seems to me is, my motivation just went out the window at some point.

Where once I had energy for days and ****ing days, suddenly I can hardly get out of bed in the morning.

What kind of problem presents those symptoms?


I saw a couple of shrinks, and they put me on prozac (anit-depressants), which didn't do a god damn thing, so they took me off it again.
They thought it would help with the tiredness, but it didn't do ****.

They also put me on olanzapine, an anti-psychotic, which does help ease the panic symptoms I get when I think of my life and how it's basically been flushed down the toilet, so I told them I wanted to stay on that.

They mentioned I may have
1) Autism - because of what they perceive as social withdrawal over the years, that was one of their initial conclusions.
I had plenty of friends when I was a kid though, and did alright with girls too, dating one for a couple years and seeing a string of girls before the problems kicked in as mentioned above.
I don't know does that rule it out or what though.

2) Delusional disorder.
Which is why they put me on the anti-psychotic initially.
I'm not sure how they came to this diagnosis; perhaps cause of some perceived warped views of the world and **** I may have presented.


Now I know a lot of people may adopt the attitude, "just GET motivated. Everyone gets tired. Get your arse in gear and do something worthwhile and it will come back".

Believe me I've tried that for years, 'till I've run myself into the ground.

"Well keep trying".

I have, until I was almost admitted to a psychiatric unit for stress disorder.

They also made diagnosis of
3) Obsessive compulsive disorder - mainly related to my obsession with different bizarre means to try and re-motivate myself, one being screwing whores by the dozen, to try and combat the social withdrawal effects.

4) Personality disorder - anti-social, potential narcissistic PD.

That's a whole lot of ****, and I know folk can bandy around these terms now a days, sometimes looking for sympathy as much as anything, but that's the information I was presented with.


At this stage, I'm basically taking it upon myself to try and determine what the **** went wrong along the way, cause
a) my career is gone
b) I'm in no shape to go back to college or retrain at ****ing anything
c) I struggle to train anymore, but this is the first thing I do when I have occasional fleeting bursts of energy
d) I'm back living with my damn parents at 28; it doesn't suck much more than this.

I had tried talk therapy of the last few months also, but ending up hating the therapist I was attending (who was the most highly recommended one given my diagnosis), and I'm so de-motivated now, I can hardly bother looking for another one, so I don't know how beneficial that approach is/could be.


So, how can I phrase the question?

Anyone been in remotely similar situations?
Familiar with them diagnosis?
Anything at all to contribute - could point me in the any worthwhile direction, I'd appreciate it.

**

JuliusCaesar

I think this is more suited to the Personal Issues forum; all we can say here for an individual's problems is see the sticky on How to Find a Counsellor/Therapist, and find somebody you can talk with, and who is useful to you.








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canonball5

May I suggest you listen to Joe Rogan's podcast on this issue, It's episode 574 and they speak about many of the issues you've raised. I don't have an answer for you but it my clear a few things up for you.

Saralee4

Under_Graduate wrote: »

They also made diagnosis of
3) Obsessive compulsive disorder - mainly related to my obsession with different bizarre means to try and re-motivate myself, one being screwing whores by the dozen, to try and combat the social withdrawal effects.

4) Personality disorder - anti-social, potential narcissistic PD.

That's a whole lot of ****, and I know folk can bandy around these terms now a days, sometimes looking for sympathy as much as anything, but that's the information I was presented with.

I had tried talk therapy of the last few months also, but ending up hating the therapist I was attending (who was the most highly recommended one given my diagnosis), and I'm so de-motivated now, I can hardly bother looking for another one, so I don't know how beneficial that approach is/could be.


**

From what you are saying, it sounds like you may be having difficulty in coming to terms with your diagnosis. If you truly do not believe you have ocd and npd or aspd then perhaps a second opinion will confirm for you or lead you to a new diagnosis.

I am not giving medical advice but from what I have read, it is typical for people with npd and aspd to have a hard time dealing, working with and finding the right therapists. Maybe try another therapist and try to have an open mind going in rather than focusing on past experience with therapy.

Greenduck

Hi OP,

Sounds to be you're going through hell at the moment and I can kinda understand why. So many opinions and diagnosis by medics can be really upsetting and confusing. I almost got lost in your post which is a good insight into how your mind is working at the moment. Going from endless energy to feeling crap, does'nt sound like any kind of disorder that I have heard of. Diagnosis can be helpful in some instances but in this case it sounds like it became a label for you and one in which you have to lead your life. You essentially became your perceived illness.

I would advise you to try some therapy again. It can take months to find the right fit with someone so stopping after one bad experience wouldn't be the best idea in my opinion.

You are only 28 not 78. You have a life out there to live..its time to make a decision about what you want from it. Start with your health - take a healthy approach to food and exercise (no extremes). If you're still having trouble sleeping, things like yoga and relaxation might be able to help. You seem fragmented and this will bring you back in touch with your physical being. You also seem to have some ideal or standards of where you should be in your life...this would be a really good thing to work through in therapy.

Have you any friends? Spend time with them, go on holidays/travelling and try and give yourself some things to look forward to. Spend quality time with family (if you like them) and talk, talk, talk. You'd be surprised how helpful people can be when they fully know whats going on.

Is there any spark left? Anything you feel you could focus on or enjoy? Try not to put pressure on yourself to be a certain way in a certain time and try and enjoy whats happening now.

I wish you all the best.

ShowMeTheCash

Maybe just in contrast to the previous poster:

By the sounds of it you had a live hard attitude.
Whether you want to accept it or not your body needs rest!

I am a little older than you but I remember in my early 20s I was the same, my Dad used to joke with the saying "You can only burn the candle at both ends for so long"

Lack of sleep, pushing your body mentally and physically, boozing it up at the weekend along with any other drugs will take it's toll!

I landed my self in hospital when I was 27 after a weekend bender... I was not myself after that for about 6 months and was told the weekend had left me with PTSD due to the truma but, I took it easy for a while and I bounced back.

I am a little older now not much but I kind of realised I am not superman albeit I still tell people I am.
I do not really drink often anymore but I still get the occasional lads night out but my career is going great and I try to take care of myself run, cycle go to the gym, take time to relax and try and get as much sleep as I need.


At 28 you might find your body is simply not as robust as it was in you late teens are early 20s.

Saralee4

Greenduck wrote: »

Hi OP,

Sounds to be you're going through hell at the moment and I can kinda understand why. So many opinions and diagnosis by medics can be really upsetting and confusing. I almost got lost in your post which is a good insight into how your mind is working at the moment. Going from endless energy to feeling crap, does'nt sound like any kind of disorder that I have heard of. Diagnosis can be helpful in some instances but in this case it sounds like it became a label for you and one in which you have to lead your life. You essentially became your perceived illness.

t.

Anti social personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder are both from the same cluster B type personalities. I have read that these can occur comorbidly along with disorders such as ocd.

So while it may seem that op has had a lot of diagnosis, it is quite common for these disorders to coexist in one person.

op you asked about what other possibilities your symptoms present. I would be worried that you might get a false sense of reassurance that your diagnosis from medical professional is incorrect from advice you might receive here since your own view of this diagnosis is that it is a load of "bull".

I can understand that it is very confusing and often we want answers and a quick fix or cure. As far as i know the main treatment for your diagnosis is talk therepy. Your therepist might have been awful or perhaps you two just didn't get along but also you should consider that resisting this therepy is common for this type of disorder.

Try another therapist. Don't give up after just one go. That is the hard part but if you can overcome that and work along with the people/professionals trying to help you, then maybe you can start to have a more positive outlook on life and adapt yourself to a healthier way of thinking.

pharmaton

you tended to gloss over the sleeping issue as you appear to be so overwhelmed with diagnostics for all the other issues you are dealing with at the minute and I don't mean to make them sound trivial either but I just wanted to highlight the value of getting enough sleep as it appears to be the one thing you can do something about. I've read a lot of research which links lack of sleep with a variety of issues and seems to be the overriding common denominator in people suffering from depression and anxiety disorders. Some years ago when I was searching for answers myself I went down the CBT route, and while I couldn't get into it in a meaningful way it lead me to read a lot about the topic, specifically the Human Givens approach. (book authored by two Irish psychlogist/psychotherapist) Without going on about it too much, there is a very interesting few chapters about sleep, how it helps us process **** (in your own words ) and gives a meaningful insight into how we can use it to help ourselves get well. I'd highly recommend having a look if even just for that particular viewpoint. Best of luck (there is some information available freely online)

Emme

OP, did you get an overall health check? If you didn't eat properly or get enough sleep it could be a physical problem. Find a progressive doctor who will give you a full range of tests. Longterm lack of proper sleep can affect your mental health.

blatantrereg

Therapy might be counter-productive depending on the condition tbh. I know that they are very cautious about therapy for bipolar patients for example - something which is pretty common, treatable, and not a million miles from what you are describing...antidepressants can also be counter-productive for bp patients. Have you gone into detail about the hyperactive can't sleep side of things with the psychiatrists, not just focused on the depressive aspect?

You need to get a diagnosis. Go to a different doctor.

Pixie Chief

Could be something physical too. I struggled with exhaustion and loss of motivation for years, was offered depression as a diagnosis. I really felt it wasn't and kept pushing and researching. Found great GP who ran loads of tests for pretty much everything that causes extreme fatigue and I have an autoimmune disorder. Can't be fixed but I can manage it and do a lot to help myself. I'm not at all saying that is what you have, just that it's not always in your head!

Under_Graduate

I just listen to the first portion of that rogan podcast. The symptoms he describes, that is me completely. Especially how he describes not being able to read where he was an avid reader, not sleeping, total motivation loss, lethargy etc

He could be describing me exactly.

I still have doubts, but I am definitely getting them testosterone checks done.

He makes it sound like a miracle cure

Under_Graduate

I'm based in the west, and my gp is kind of flaky. I'd be willing to travel, but can anyone maybe pm me a good gp that can I get these tests done with, like the previous poster mentioned?

I'd appreciate it

neemish

Don't get too caught up with a diagnosis. Once you're boxed in, you may find it hard to get out of it! Psychiatrists like boxes, but they don't always do us justice. You're a human being, with all the complexities that brings. Find a decent therapist, one who can work with you on your issues and help you to understand yourself a bit better.

I've said this before on boards, but when I was 28, I was living at home on disability with no chance of ever getting out of bed, never mind working. Then I got two hours volunteer work, then four hours work which meant I had to move out of home. And slowly, slowly I built myself up. I', 35, in a permanent pensionable job working full time (and then some!). Still in therapy, still working stuff out, still get depressed but learning to deal with it in a different way.

By the way, i would definitely look into the physical thing. I'm female, but I noticed that hormones were badly effecting my life. I had to do a bit of convincing, but saw a consultant a year ago, started on the pill and it has completely changed my life. Now obviously, that isn't going to work for you! but if you think that there's something physically off, get it seen to.


On the insomnia, it's a tough one. I think when you're not working, it can be hard to get into a routine. There are some really good self help websites for it. I know, i know - you're saying, I'm beyond that but honestly, they do work. It's just easier to take a pill sometimes.

Emme

Under_Graduate wrote: »

I'm based in the west, and my gp is kind of flaky. I'd be willing to travel, but can anyone maybe pm me a good gp that can I get these tests done with, like the previous poster mentioned?

I'd appreciate it

Dr Patrick McGovern in Drommartin Clinic might help you but he's pricey. He takes an alternative approach. He's between Stillorgan and Dundrum. Check out his website.

Under_Graduate

Pixie Chief wrote: »

Could be something physical too. I struggled with exhaustion and loss of motivation for years, was offered depression as a diagnosis. I really felt it wasn't and kept pushing and researching. Found great GP who ran loads of tests for pretty much everything that causes extreme fatigue and I have an autoimmune disorder. Can't be fixed but I can manage it and do a lot to help myself. I'm not at all saying that is what you have, just that it's not always in your head!

At this point, I'm leaning toward it being something physical.

Again, from the link to Rogans podcast, what they describe is brain trauma cause hormonal imbalance, cured effectively, by TRT.

Well, I don't know how big a part it plays, but as a kid, I used to get headaches so bad I would sometimes pass out.

Then, at 14 I suffered a severe concussion from a bike accident.

But, none of my symptoms arose, until at 20, I was kicked in the face thai boxing, which broke my jaw in two places.
Subsequently had surgery for the jaw, and they corrected my nose which had been put out of shape previously also.

Specifically after this, within about 2 months, I began to notice the prevalence of the fatigue, sleeplessness followed, difficulty getting out of bed.

This deteriorated for years, but I got through it through sheer will power effectively, until I have a nervous breakdown and end up where I am now - on disability.


So, it would appear it could well be linked to the hormonal imbalance, or something physical.


I had a series of blood checks today, it'll be about 10 days before they're back.

Could I request the name of the doctor you saw who comprehensively reviewed you for your fatigue issues?

I really want to have that looked at in complete depth at this point.

Pixie Chief

Was just our local GP. Moved house and had the good fortune to land with GP who has an interest in autoimmune. Previous GP spent 5 years touting depression/hormonal imbalance line and treating symptoms instead of finding out why various things were happening. GP prior to that did same thing so more or less 10 years struggling with an increasingly difficult set of issues for nothing. It wasn't a specialist GP like McGovern who I couldn't afford anyway...you'd have to be living here to be a patient. I would definitely persist with investigations if the answers don't make any sense to you.

Under_Graduate

^^ Jeez, it took that long to get diagnosed?

Apparently autoimmune diseases could be determined through standard blood count/blood work, no?
So it took 10 years for the doctors to run that test?

I'm asking as this is really the first time I'm tackling this issues from a purely organic point of view (as oppose to psychological - which yielded nothing), and I'd be worried to think something could be so easily overlooked.

I've had these symptoms for years, so I feel like I've lost a substantial portion of my life already. I don't want to waste any more time cause of these oversights.

professore

Under_Graduate wrote: »

^^ Jeez, it took that long to get diagnosed?

Apparently autoimmune diseases could be determined through standard blood count/blood work, no?
So it took 10 years for the doctors to run that test?

I'm asking as this is really the first time I'm tackling this issues from a purely organic point of view (as oppose to psychological - which yielded nothing), and I'd be worried to think something could be so easily overlooked.

I've had these symptoms for years, so I feel like I've lost a substantial portion of my life already. I don't want to waste any more time cause of these oversights.

Coeliac disease needs a biopsy to diagnose it, just because blood tests are negative doesn't rule it out. Don't know about other autoimmune disorders.

Pixie Chief

Autoimmune is tricky to diagnose, in fairness. Coeliac is one of the few with test/result/diagnosis. The rest are judged by bloodwork which may or may not mean anything, symptoms and the progression of symptoms and the opinion interest of doctors along the way. The bit I resent the most is that had huge reproductive issues on a monthly basis (trying to hard to avoid TMI moment!) for almost ten years. Had a variety of hormonal treatments. Had pernicious anemia at the same time. No one ever connected the two. Sorted out the digestive issues I never knew I had and voila with a month all the other stuff was gone. Ten years to diagnose autoimmune seems standard but I haven't received an official diagnosis yet, waiting to see a rheumatologist for 6 years now. Previous GP noted 'low priority' on letter.

Pixie Chief

Oh OP, research brain/gut connection - it does seem that a gut issue can absolutely cause neuro/psych/hormone issues. Whenever I encounter people with similar issues and frustrated by doctors I always tell them to make sure that their gut function is as good as it can be and their nutrition is on a high plane - maybe ask to check for deficiencies? You are unlikely to do yourself any harm looking after your digestive health and ensuring you have all the nutrients you need. It sounds stupid and basic but if the basics aren't right, the rest won't be!

Beaner1

I've been suffering wiht similar symptoms the past 6 months. Blood tests are hinting at stuff being awry but nothing definite. I'm also getting the psychological line or you're fine, come back in 6 months. Why I believe it is physical in your case and mine is the desire to actually do stuff like getting diagnosed. You say when you are feeling more normal you're straight in the gym and wanting to do something positive.

I've find getting a diagnosis to be the hardest and it's still in progress after 6 doctors. Do your research, make up some possible diagnosis and bring them to your doctor. Get these things ruled out. If your doctor doesn't like it, **** them. Move on. It's your health and your life. They see you for 10 minutes a month whilst you deal with the symptoms every day.
6 months in and coincidentally I'm only getting tested for gluten/coeliac issues now and should have some results in a few days.