Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the West" (Pegida)

AndonHandon

I did a search for Pegida but nothing showed up, therefore;

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30478321

Clutching German flags, candles and banners, thousands of people joined a demonstration ostensibly against the so-called Islamisation of Germany.

"No sharia law in Europe!" proclaimed one banner.

But it rapidly became clear that most here are protesting against high levels of immigration and asylum seekers.

A few years ago such scenes would have been inconceivable in this country. Many in Germany are ashamed and horrified - not just by the numbers at this demonstration but by support for right wing groups elsewhere.

What has startled politicians though is that many in the crowds at Dresden are not extremists or neo-Nazis. As conservative politician Wolfgang Bosbach puts it, these are concerned mothers, pensioners.

This rally was organised via Facebook, it attracted tens of thousands of folk who are not obviously extremist and was peaceful. However, Germany does attract a relatively huge number of asylum claims which is leading to protests such as these together with an increase in euro sceptic political parties. Is there a justification for this sort of disillusionment or do these sort of rallies only serve to stir up the ghosts of Nazi past?

porsche959

Don't mention the war. I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it.

ireland.man

AndonHandon wrote: »

I did a search for Pegida but nothing showed up, therefore;

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30478321



This rally was organised via Facebook, it attracted tens of thousands of folk who are not obviously extremist and was peaceful. However, Germany does attract a relatively huge number of asylum claims which is leading to protests such as these together with an increase in euro sceptic political parties. Is there a justification for this sort of disillusionment or do these sort of rallies only serve to stir up the ghosts of Nazi past?

I prefer the ghost of Christmas past, far less racist.

Shenshen

I've read a few articles about them in the German papers recently.

The amusing thing is that in Saxony, where those demonstrations took place, 0.1% of the population are Muslim.
In other words, for every 1 Muslim living there, there are 2.5 demonstrators who feel threatened that this 1 fellow might islamise them when they're not looking....

TeamJesus

Shenshen wrote: »

I've read a few articles about them in the German papers recently.

The amusing thing is that in Saxony, where those demonstrations took place, 0.1% of the population are Muslim.
In other words, for every 1 Muslim living there, there are 2.5 demonstrators who feel threatened that this 1 fellow might islamise them when they're not looking....

My maths isn't good but is that not 1 in 1000?

nokia69

Shenshen wrote: »

I've read a few articles about them in the German papers recently.

The amusing thing is that in Saxony, where those demonstrations took place, 0.1% of the population are Muslim.
In other words, for every 1 Muslim living there, there are 2.5 demonstrators who feel threatened that this 1 fellow might islamise them when they're not looking....

or maybe they can spot a trend

Europe has far too many muslims who don't want to integrate, so its a very bad idea to continue to import even more

just look at the UK, we can see that they made a huge mistake yet in Ireland we are going down the very same road

Shenshen

TeamJesus wrote: »

My maths isn't good but is that not 1 in 1000?

Numbers taken from a recent Spiegel article.

Yes, it would be 1 in 1000 in Saxony. And several 10s of thousands protesting.

Peregrinus

This isn't all that surprising. I recall a study from the UK a while ago which showed that support for UKIP and concerns about immigration and islamisation were inversely correlated with actually having met socially, or worked with, immigrants or Muslims.

SEPT 23 1989

nokia69 wrote: »

or maybe they can spot a trend

Europe has far too many muslims who don't want to integrate, so its a very bad idea to continue to import even more

just look at the UK, we can see that they made a huge mistake yet in Ireland we are going down the very same road

you cant say such things around these parts:D

Shenshen

nokia69 wrote: »

or maybe they can spot a trend

Europe has far too many muslims who don't want to integrate, so its a very bad idea to continue to import even more

just look at the UK, we can see that they made a huge mistake yet in Ireland we are going down the very same road

How many Muslims who don't want to integrate does Europe have, exactly?

How do you, personally, define "integration"?

I'll need a little more facts before I can post a qualified reply to your suggestion.

Shenshen

Peregrinus wrote: »

This isn't all that surprising. I recall a study from the UK a while ago which showed that support for UKIP and concerns about immigration and islamisation were inversely correlated with actually having met socially, or worked with, immigrants or Muslims.

Very similar in Germany.

The "new countries" (Saxony, Thuringia, etc. - former East Germany) have the lowest numbers of immigrants and non-nationals anywhere in Germany, by a long, long margin.

Yet these countries are the most militant anit-immigration and generally anti-foreigners within Germany.

It would appear that if you've never met many foreigners, you are more likely to be influenced by negative images of them reported in the media worldwide.

NoMore MrNiceGuy

Shenshen wrote: »

How many Muslims who don't want to integrate does Europe have, exactly?

How do you, personally, define "integration"?

I'll need a little more facts before I can post a qualified reply to your suggestion.

Very demanding for someone with the odd mathematics.

Streetwalker

Frightening there are people out there thinking like this.

nokia69

Shenshen wrote: »

How many Muslims who don't want to integrate does Europe have, exactly?

How do you, personally, define "integration"?

I'll need a little more facts before I can post a qualified reply to your suggestion.

na, you just want to sneer at people that you disagree with

Shenshen

nokia69 wrote: »

na, you just want to sneer at people that you disagree with

Unlike you, is it?

I just find it useless to discuss an issue without knowing what the issue actually is.

nokia69

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30436692

the same thing is happening in france, even some of the left wingers have seen the light

conorhal

nokia69 wrote: »

or maybe they can spot a trend

Europe has far too many muslims who don't want to integrate, so its a very bad idea to continue to import even more

just look at the UK, we can see that they made a huge mistake yet in Ireland we are going down the very same road

And at the end of that same road we're building the biggest mosque in Europe!
The west still doesn't seem to get it. The only way to win an ideological war is the same way as the last one, by building a an iron curtian around North Africa and the Middle East and leaving those on the other side of it to indulge their daft ideology intill it implodes, just like Communism.

Can you imagine at the height of the cold war taking in tens of thousands of Soviet citizens each year and letting a load of them build the biggest institute for communist study in the west?
Can you imagine the chapter in your newly approved state history book from first citizen 'Comrade Aodhan O' Riordain' about the glorious revolution and how the west fell? .....No doubt titled, "because the dumbasses handed over the keys to the front door!"
When the barbarians are at the gate, you close them.

Shenshen

NoMore MrNiceGuy wrote: »

Very demanding for someone with the odd mathematics.

"Nur ungefähr 0,1 Prozent der in Sachsen lebenden Menschen sind Muslime - insgesamt also etwa 4000 Menschen. Die bislang letzte Pegida-Demo in Dresden hatte 10.000 Teilnehmer. Auf jeden Muslim in Sachsen kommen also 2,5 Demonstranten, die sich von ihm bedroht fühlen."

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/pegida-die-thesen-im-faktencheck-a-1008098.html

Timberrrrrrrr

AndonHandon wrote: »

I did a search for Pegida but nothing showed up, therefore;

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30478321



This rally was organised via Facebook, it attracted tens of thousands of folk who are not obviously extremist and was peaceful. However, Germany does attract a relatively huge number of asylum claims which is leading to protests such as these together with an increase in euro sceptic political parties. Is there a justification for this sort of disillusionment or do these sort of rallies only serve to stir up the ghosts of Nazi past?

Did combat 18 change name?

yipeeeee

conorhal wrote: »

And at the end of that same road we're building the biggest mosque in Europe!
The west still doesn't seem to get it. The only way to win an ideological war is the same way as the last one, by building a an iron curtian around North Africa and the Middle East and leaving those on the other side of it to indulge their daft ideology intill it implodes, just like Communism.

Can you imagine at the height of the cold war taking in tens of thousands of Soviet citizens each year and letting a load of them build the biggest institute for communist study in the west?
Can you imagine the chapter in you newly approved state history book about the glorious revolution and how the west fell? No doubt titled, "because the dumbasses handed over the keys to the front door!"

is it too early for popcorn!?

Shenshen

conorhal wrote: »

And at the end of that same road we're building the biggest mosque in Europe!
The west still doesn't seem to get it. The only way to win an ideological war is the same way as the last one, by building a an iron curtian around North Africa and the Middle East and leaving those on the other side of it to indulge their daft ideology intill it implodes, just like Communism.

Can you imagine at the height of the cold war taking in tens of thousands of Soviet citizens each year and letting a load of them build the biggest institute for communist study in the west?
Can you imagine the chapter in your newly approved state history book from first citizen 'Comrade Aodhan O' Riordain' about the glorious revolution and how the west fell? .....No doubt titled, "because the dumbasses handed over the keys to the front door!"

On average, 92 000 people left East Germany each year, both legally and illegally, and settled to live in West Germany. (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flucht_aus_der_Sowjetischen_Besatzungszone_und_der_DDR).
I've got no figures for the other Eastern Block countries, but I would imagine the figures were high as well.

And yes, both former east Germans and others published a large number of books on communism, many extoling its virtues.

Drakares

Shenshen wrote: »

I've read a few articles about them in the German papers recently.

The amusing thing is that in Saxony, where those demonstrations took place, 0.1% of the population are Muslim.

I don't know where you get this number but it's bollocks. 4% of the population of Germany are Muslim, that's over 3.6 million people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Germany#Islam

As someone living in Germany, I can tell you there is a massive Turkish community in the country. Many of these people can't speak proper German having lived here for years. They stay within their own small segregated Turkish community and have no intention of integrating.

This isn't the case for all, of course. But for many that I have seen. People are scared, both normal Muslims who are fearing retribution and non-muslims who are afraid of terrorism. There is nothing "amusing" about the whole situation.

Shenshen

Drakares wrote: »

I don't know where you get this number but it's bollocks. 4% of the population of Germany are Muslim, that's over 3.6 million people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Germany#Islam

As someone living in Germany, I can tell you there is a massive Turkish community in the country. Many of these people can't speak proper German having lived here for years. They stay within their own small segregated Turkish community.

This isn't the case for all, of course. But for many that I have seen. There is nothing "amusing" about the whole situation.

Please note that I said in Saxony, not in Germany.
Dresden is in Saxony.

Drakares

Shenshen wrote: »

Please note that I said in Saxony, not in Germany.
Dresden is in Saxony.

I know you said Saxony but 0.1% is still incorrect (unless you can back this up?). Having been there several times, I can see that Muslims are not such a minority.

suicide_circus

It actually takes a fair bit to make your average person get up off their arse and attend a public demonstration. These people are perturbed about something. This is not an isolated trend in Europe and will probably not go away on its own.

osarusan

Drakares wrote: »

I know you said Saxony but 0.1% is still incorrect (unless you can back this up?). Having been there several times, I can see that Muslims are not such a minority.

Already posted the source, quote, and link in this thread.

You're working very hard to misunderstand.

humanji

AH doesn't need yet another immigration thread with plenty of thinly veiled racism. If you want to discuss the politics of it, head over to the Politics Café.