Turkey and its Prime Minister

Drakares

Can't provide a link as it's in German.. Just saw on the news that the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan had 50 people arrested, police, lawyers, journalists etc. for opposing his parties rules, laws and corruption.

Most of these laws are anti-women's rights, pro Islam as well as pretty much persecuting anyone that disagrees with the party's rule.

They reformed the judical system last year and arrested the families of the cabinet members who disagreed with the changes.

How the hell are Turkey still in any reasonable to stand to become part of the EU?! And how are they part of NATO when their views have no stand with the rest of Europe.

More reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recep_Tayyip_Erdo%C4%9Fan#Controversies_and_accusations_of_dictatorship

What do ye make of this?

Hande hoche!

They aren't going to be let into the E.U., it's a ruse to get them to cop on a bit.

LeinsterDub

Drakares wrote: »

Can't provide a link as it's in German.. Just saw on the news that the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan had 50 people arrested, police, lawyers, journalists etc. for opposing his parties rules, laws and corruption.

Most of these laws are anti-women's rights, pro Islam as well as pretty much persecuting anyone that disagrees with the party's rule.

They reformed the judical system last year and arrested the families of the cabinet members who disagreed with the changes.

How the hell are Turkey still in any reasonable to stand to become part of the EU?! And how are they part of NATO when their views have no stand with the rest of Europe.

More reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recep_Tayyip_Erdo%C4%9Fan#Controversies_and_accusations_of_dictatorship

What do ye make of this?

Nato is still fundamentally a alliance of convenience against Russia primarily and Turkey have been in membership talks with the Europeans for 40 years it ain't happening anytime soon.

Tail Docker

Turkey is Afghanistan lite, imo. Between the massive drugs trade and their shyte human rights history, they aren't really a shining beacon of light in too many regards.

Nodin

Drakares wrote: »

Can't provide a link as it's in German.. Just saw on the news that the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan had 50 people arrested, police, lawyers, journalists etc. for opposing his parties rules, laws and corruption.

Most of these laws are anti-women's rights, pro Islam as well as pretty much persecuting anyone that disagrees with the party's rule.

They reformed the judical system last year and arrested the families of the cabinet members who disagreed with the changes.

How the hell are Turkey still in any reasonable to stand to become part of the EU?! And how are they part of NATO when their views have no stand with the rest of Europe.

More reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recep_Tayyip_Erdo%C4%9Fan#Controversies_and_accusations_of_dictatorship

What do ye make of this?

They're not getting in the EU any time soon, and membership of NATO is not dependent on being one of the nice guys. Beeb link
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30468199

Highflyer13

Hes a regressive twat

Banjo String

The reason they don't celebrate Christmas there is not because the country is mainly muslim.

It's because Turks didn't vote for Christmas.

Nodin

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Hes a regressive twat

He is now. The first year or two he looked quite good. Them days is long gone though.

irish coldplayer

The Presidential/Dictator Palace he has just built gives a fair indication as to what this guy is really about...

In a word its obscene.

He makes Charlie Haughey look like a spendthrift

Shenshen

I had a feeling that the chap is a few sandwiches short of a picnic when he came out with a statement recently that women shouldn't laugh in public. And that they should blush when a man looks at them.

Turkey still is one of the more liberal countries in the area, one of the few secular states, but Erdogan seems quite keen on dismantling that heritage.

Manach

NATO has always been about ensuring a unified military alliance against the Russia. Without Turkey securing the southern flank this leaves only one nexus for any potential conflict. Dismissing Turkey for the failure to an absolute moral standard which liberal Europe kowtows risks the actual security of the self same liberal Europeans .

AlanS181824

What a complete asshole!

Feel sorry for the general Turkish population.

Goat the dote

I though it was something to do with actual turkeys!

up for anything

irish coldplayer wrote: »

He makes Charlie Haughey look like a spendthrift

Charlie was.

Tail Docker

AlanS181824 wrote: »

What a complete asshole!

Feel sorry for the general Turkish population.

They were Delighted with him to begin with. Not so sweet now.

gene_slackman

Shenshen wrote: »

I had a feeling that the chap is a few sandwiches short of a picnic when he came out with a statement recently that women shouldn't laugh in public. And that they should blush when a man looks at them.

Turkey still is one of the more liberal countries in the area, one of the few secular states, but Erdogan seems quite keen on dismantling that heritage.

turket is liberal in comparison to other nations in that region in the same way as alaska is hot by comparison with siberia

ConstantJoe

gene_slackman wrote: »

turket is liberal in comparison to other nations in that region in the same way as alaska is hot by comparison with siberia

You'd be surprised - Erdogan is deeply unpopular to a large portion of the Turkish population. He's really (or at least was) someone who divides opinion there, you either thought he was great or absolutely awful. A lot of Turks in the west of the country would be quite liberal and anti-AKP.

Also, Ataturk is still revered by a lot of Turkish people, and a lot of the laws that Erdogan has brought in (the more pro-Islam laws) are seen to be anti-Kemalism. So you have this weird situation where a lot of conservative Turks are also anti-Erdogan and want to keep things as they were, which is completely secular. Kinda the opposite of Ireland.

irish coldplayer

up for anything wrote: »

Charlie was.

I wasnt talking about his fiscal policy, I meant personally, Erdogan like Haughey has no problem abusing public funds to fund a lavish lifestyle.
Erdogan has just taken it to a new level.

floggg

gene_slackman wrote: »

turket is liberal in comparison to other nations in that region in the same way as alaska is hot by comparison with siberia

I was in Istanbul earlier this year and it felt relatively western to be honest - and that was travelling as a gay couple.

From what I understand however there are some fairly big differences between urban areas like Istanbul and more rural ones.

BoJack Horseman

floggg wrote: »

I was in Istanbul earlier this year and it felt relatively western to be honest - and that was travelling as a gay couple.

That's because, as the former capital of the Roman empire, it is a western city.

Cross the Bosporus & its a different situation.

I guess the Turkish government know they have no hope of ever being in the EU so are reverting to type.

floggg

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

That's because, as the former capital of the Roman empire, it is a western city.

Cross the Bosporus & its a different situation.

I guess the Turkish government know they have no hope of ever being in the EU so are reverting to type.

It stopped being a Roman city almost 1000 years ago in fairness. The Ottoman empire always embraced diversity though (to a much greater extent than any "Western" empire), so Istanbul was always a mixing pot.

I don't think it's just Istanbul though - we also went to Antalya which seemed relatively liberal too - though I appreciate that there are also more conservative parts of society.

That said, it didn't exactly feel like Amsterdam, but as my first time travelling in a Muslim state it didn't feel too alien.

BoJack Horseman

floggg wrote: »

It stopped being a Roman city almost 1000 years ago in fairness.

It was 1453 when it finally fell to the Ottomans.

Perhaps more recent than many assumed.

Shenshen

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

That's because, as the former capital of the Roman empire, it is a western city.

Cross the Bosporus & its a different situation.

I guess the Turkish government know they have no hope of ever being in the EU so are reverting to type.

So 6 centuries as the capital of the Ottoman empire wold have left little trace, do you think?

Shenshen

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It was 1453 when it finally fell to the Ottomans.

Perhaps more recent than many assumed.

I suppose what he meant was that after the schism, Constantinople was culturally Greek rather than Roman.

BoJack Horseman

Shenshen wrote: »

So 6 centuries as the capital of the Ottoman empire wold have left little trace, do you think?

Quite a bit.

But it still feels fairly European.

iDave

floggg wrote: »

I was in Istanbul earlier this year and it felt relatively western to be honest - and that was travelling as a gay couple.

From what I understand however there are some fairly big differences between urban areas like Istanbul and more rural ones.

I've been to Istanbul and tbh I never really got a western vibe apart from being around loads of Aussies drinking beer in the tourist section.
Seemed like there was a mosque on every street and the call to prayer or whatever it is went off nearly every hour. Restaurants had to turn off the music whenever it went off to.

Shenshen

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Quite a bit.

But it still feels fairly European.

It does, but no more or less than, say, Ankara or Izmir.

Turkey has spent almost the last century (since Atatürk and the establishment of the republic) turning itself into a secular, western-style democracy.
I suspect that's where the "European" feel comes from, not from medieval history.

suicide_circus

Right that's turkey off the holiday destination list until they get rid off this clown of a PM

DeadHand

Turkey is a "best of a bad bunch" type of country. While not quite Scandinavian, it's a much more pleasant place to live and more benign force than most of it's neighbours.

It's a lynchpin strategically and an important, potent regional power. A moderate, secular, reasonable Turkey is vital to the region and to the rest of the world as a bulwark against the expansion of radical Islam.

If she falls under a black flag, Europe, Israel and Russia are in all sorts of trouble.

I wouldn't be confident that the right man is at the helm to keep this from happening.

floggg

Shenshen wrote: »

I suppose what he meant was that after the schism, Constantinople was culturally Greek rather than Roman.

No - I was just under estimating by about 150-200 years.

I think 1200-ish is when the Turks took Anatolia though now that I put my mind to it. That was the beginning of the end for the Byzantines, though they hung around for a while afterwards.

floggg

iDave wrote: »

I've been to Istanbul and tbh I never really got a western vibe apart from being around loads of Aussies drinking beer in the tourist section.
Seemed like there was a mosque on every street and the call to prayer or whatever it is went off nearly every hour. Restaurants had to turn off the music whenever it went off to.

There were a fair few starbucks though, everybody spoke some English, the restaurants and shops all sold beer, and lots of women with heads uncovered (or partially covered).

You wouldn't mistake it for Western Europe, but it is not (as was suggested earlier) nearly as bad as other counties on the region.