Importance of degree result

Marsden

So how important does anyone here think it is. I ask because I love programming, usually achieve 70+ in my CA's but when it comes to end of semester theory exams I totally suck. I can barely scrape past a 50 unless its writing code. I'm good at interviews and work well with others but I just find the exams boring as hell and can't get theory to stick. I know I'd work well as a programmer and can't wait to start work but I'm on the way to getting a 2.2 I reckon.

Will this be a huge drawback in finding programming work when I graduate?

GarIT

That depends on where you want to work. The big software companies in Ireland (Amazon, Microsoft, Google) wouldn't consider you with a 2.2. The medium sized companies probably would.

The most important part of programming is the theory, the code doesn't matter, anyone can write code, but not all can do correctly.

It's kind of a running joke more than something serious but people (staff and other students) in my uni say that if you get less than a 2.1, say you didn't go to college and were off in Thailand for 4 years. It's better to be seen as not having tried than not being capable.

MarkAnthony

You may find it difficult to get in the door there are many, many options though for people that don't examine well.

Work Experience > Degree classification and if you do a Masters you can gloss over your undergrad degree.

Get internships ASAP.

braddun

you could fix computers at 15 euro an hour

Marsden

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Work Experience > Degree classification and if you do a Masters you can gloss over your undergrad degree.

Would a masters degree not be more theory heavy than a level 8? Doubt I'd be doing this anyway, haven't got the $$$.

I reckon I'd be after some sort of internship anyway when I finish but would they not have the same attitude as paid employment ie "take your 2.2 and sling your hook"?

MarkAnthony

Marsden wrote: »

Would a masters degree not be more theory heavy than a level 8? Doubt I'd be doing this anyway, haven't got the $$$.

I reckon I'd be after some sort of internship anyway when I finish but would they not have the same attitude as paid employment ie "take your 2.2 and sling your hook"?

Do the internships now. After the degree is money time. A masters can be done afterwards if you find that the jobs you want aren't available to you.

2.1 will be used as a filter by some companies, others won't. No one will care 5 years in it will all be down to your work ex. A good rounded CV with a solid 2.2 from a good Uni will get you into enough interviews to keep you going. Getting the job, that's different and won't come down to your degree result.

Marsden

MarkAnthony wrote: »

2.1 will be used as a filter by some companies, others won't. No one will care 5 years in it will all be down to your work ex. A good rounded CV with a solid 2.2 from a good Uni will get you into enough interviews to keep you going. Getting the job, that's different and won't come down to your degree result.

I could always just lie through me teeth either.

Thanks for the help Mark.

Jim2007

Marsden wrote: »

I can barely scrape past a 50 unless its writing code. I'm good at interviews and work well with others but I just find the exams boring as hell and can't get theory to stick. I know I'd work well as a programmer and can't wait to start work but I'm on the way to getting a 2.2 I reckon.

Well the thing is that to get to the interview stage you have to get past the first filter which generally is your degree results. And to be perfectly honest if you can't get the theory, I fail to see how you could be a top line coder either!

Rather than settling for a 2.2, I'd suggest the best thing to is get the finger out, concentrate on the theory and just do it. I've not doubt that if you were good enough to get on the course then you're good enough to achieve 2.1 is you are really determined.

rat_race

Marsden wrote: »

So how important does anyone here think it is. I ask because I love programming, usually achieve 70+ in my CA's but when it comes to end of semester theory exams I totally suck. I can barely scrape past a 50 unless its writing code. I'm good at interviews and work well with others but I just find the exams boring as hell and can't get theory to stick. I know I'd work well as a programmer and can't wait to start work but I'm on the way to getting a 2.2 I reckon.

Will this be a huge drawback in finding programming work when I graduate?

Although I have a 1.1., no employer has ever actually asked me what I got and I really don't think they've cared. Sure, if there's high competition for a job, it might matter a lot: but there is such a shortage out there, that anyone with an inquisitive personality, high personal standards, and bit of experience, is a big asset.

Every job I have left, I have been asked back numerous times, months and years later.

You sound like me in some ways (understand everything but boring stuff doesn't stay in your memory for long).

Try your best to get a 2.1, but if not, don't worry about it.

Aswerty

I never put my degree or masters result on my C.V as a graduate, still not sure if this made any difference. I got a 2.2 in my undergrad and a Pass in my taught Masters, studying for exams wasn't exactly my strong point. I didn't apply to may companies but got an interview with Microsoft and Accenture, though I ended up in another company. Once you can get the interview I don't think the grade really matters. A C.V just needs to impress, a good grade will do that but it isn't the only thing. Things that can impress are interesting final year projects or dissertations, personal projects, excellence in other areas, a particularly well laid out C.V, experience in a desired technology, an internship(s), etc.

I think the others are right in that anything below a 2:1 with just a primary degree will make it very difficult to get into the big name tech firms because they are highly contested. But there is so many interesting companies out there I wouldn't exactly sweat that. Though saying that having a 2:2 can make it harder starting out, just know you'll have to rely on interview skills and putting yourself out there more so than those with a higher result.

And not being able to get theory to stick; sounds like something I would have said but in all honesty it's just because I couldn't give a flying **** about the theory unless I could relate it to something practical like lab work, assignments, or projects. Or I wouldn't do a tap for exams because I just didn't have the drive to so. I think you're better off accepting where you're lacking and try to make up for it where you're strong. Theory just not sticking is something that won't fly with most people so don't give them the excuse to throw it back at you. It's generally how you put something across that matters as opposed to what you're actually saying.

Marsden

Thanks for the replies folks. I'd heard from a mate of mine (different industry) that it meant sweet F.A. and getting high marks was more for yourself to be happy about. On the other hand a friend of a friend says he only got his job with Microsoft because of his 1.1. I always aim for high marks and sometimes I come out of exams patting meself on the back thinking I aced it, then results come in and me jaw hits the floor. I'm still not sure where I went wrong in some cases but it seems any modules without code in the exam let me down. I haven't had any fails, compensations or repeats but it would be nice to keep marks above 70. Break me bolz all year long and the lads in the class I do better than in labs/assignments seem to fare better than me in the exams.

Anyway back to studying for tomorrows exam.

L.Jenkins

I never had an issue with a 2.2 degree. I've worked for IBM and Yahoo. I'm now working for HP as a developer in manufacturing managing production servers aswell.

The Corinthian

After two to five years, no one will give a flying fsck what you got in your degree. What experience you have attained in the meantime will have superseded it in importance.

Useful.Idiot

I just missed out on a 2.1 grade by 0.6% in my undergrad degree but still got a graduate job offer for the first and only company I interviewed for. I think my past work and internship experience coupled with what I thought was a strong interview was what comfortably sealed the deal.

Good grades are of course quite a good indicator but there were guys coming in to this company interviewing for the same grad positions as mine with really great grades but their poor interview skills let them down so they didn't receive an offer. Always something to be mindful of!

CreepingDeath

I got a 2.2 degree, mainly because I wasn't that strong on the math side and went with a final year project I wasn't particularly enthusiastic about, ended up writing 3d graphics libraries in the final year which had nothing to do with the project.

It seems like only American multinationals seem to worry about the degree level.
I'm 20 years in the industry and interviewed more people than I can count.
I'm always much more interested in what people have coded, how they can explain the design and if they can explain their design/technology decisions.

If I'm in an evil mood, I may ask a single simple question about every keyword they put on their CV (eg. XML, SQL, EJB, Spring ), to see their breadth of knowledge.
If someone is just throwing keywords on a CV and they're caught out, I start to doubt the whole CV.

But if you've a solid final year/pet project to talk about, it's a good start for a graduate.

bpmurray

You can also probably mask anything on your degree with something breathtaking on GitHub, but if it's only a question of applying yourself, then you're being a bit of a dick if you don't.

Marsden

I apply meself, but I've been out of the education system for 15 years and I've a wife and kids that take up time that I wish I had more of for studying. That comment makes you seem like a bit of a dick yourself though.

witnessmenow

Grade may be an indication of how good you are, but it isnt the be all and end all.

I have a 2.2 degree, but I didn't have any issues getting a job, and it was tougher times when I graduated (2009). I get on well in my job so it isn't a direct indication of how good you'll be in the work environment.

It may effect your chances of getting a interview, but I think as has been mentioned if I was looking at your CV as a grad and you had links to projects on github it would definitely be really positive thing.

Marsden

witnessmenow wrote: »

Grade may be an indication of how good you are, but it isnt the be all and end all.

This was what I was thinking, but some of the lads doing the course seem to think if you don't get at least a 2.1 you'll never find a job. I try not to say much because I wouldn't like to discourage anyone from giving it their best and I'm hopeful that I can achieve a 2.1 meself, but it's good to know there's still hope if I don't do great.

ronivek

The degree result is pretty much just to get you to an interview. Especially for the big companies you could be talking about hundreds of potential candidates for a position; HR need some way to whittle down the applicant count and degree result is one way to do it.

Now this only applies to recent graduates and it doesn't mean every company does it; but to say that it "makes no difference" is a cop out in my opinion. It's one of the things that will likely be assessed if you're trying to get your foot in the door. It's also something that may impact any application to a MSc. course.

Edit: Ultimately the point I'm trying to make is that you should put in as much work as you can to try and secure a 2.1; as it does make a difference. That's not to say you're never going to get a job if you get a 2.2 but there's no point selling yourself short until you've sat your exams.

a person.

Marsden wrote: »

So how important does anyone here think it is. I ask because I love programming, usually achieve 70+ in my CA's but when it comes to end of semester theory exams I totally suck. I can barely scrape past a 50 unless its writing code. I'm good at interviews and work well with others but I just find the exams boring as hell and can't get theory to stick. I know I'd work well as a programmer and can't wait to start work but I'm on the way to getting a 2.2 I reckon.

Will this be a huge drawback in finding programming work when I graduate?

It's important for the first job and entry level positions, after a few years experience it becomes less and less relevant. I know people in my class years ago that stuggled to apply themselves to get 2.2's, and who are now top wage earners in their professions. (real shyte bags with regard to how they treat other people at work it has to be said). Conversely some of the able nice guys who got top marks in their degree never progressed much after that. Talent at ruthless work politics and manipulation of others, and actual ethical ability and talent, have little in common.

Raging_Ninja

There are more people taking computer science courses these days. Where in the past the overall result was less important, soon there's going to be more and more people graduating. That's going to place more of a premium on your results, at least for the graduate roles.

MillField

It might be a bit more difficult to get a job but if you know your stuff and can prove that you have an interest in what you do then you should have no problems. Once you build your first bit of experience your college result won't really factor in to your job prospects.

bpmurray

Marsden wrote: »

I apply meself, but I've been out of the education system for 15 years and I've a wife and kids that take up time that I wish I had more of for studying. That comment makes you seem like a bit of a dick yourself though.

I was out of the education system myself for longer than that and went back and did my masters (not a work requirement, more a personal challenge), and you're right - the time commitment is a real pain when you have a family. However you never mentioned that: my comment explicitly was "if it's only a question of applying yourself" - since that's not the case, then you're not.

Oh, and pointing out that someone who can't be arsed (not the case here) is a bit of an eejit doesn't make me one!

doubie

I had the same problem when I was at university. I sucked at theories but excelled in programming while I know a lot of my classmates they excelled in theories but sucked at programming. Four years later now, those guys are still in the 'testing team' while I'm now a senior developer. In terms of salary, it hasn't increased much for them as compared to mine.

yes there

doubie wrote: »

I had the same problem when I was at university. I sucked at theories but excelled in programming while I know a lot of my classmates they excelled in theories but sucked at programming. Four years later now, those guys are still in the 'testing team' while I'm now a senior developer. In terms of salary, it hasn't increased much for them as compared to mine.

What about guys that excelled at both?

RealistSpy

If you are not strong at theory then make your your portfolio is up to scratch.