Is my solicitor slacking ?

mickman

Hi everyone

I'm in the process of buying an unfinished house that is being sold by a receiver for a bank

We went sale agreed at end of sept and my solicitor received contracts at end of October

Since then , we have gotten no where. Our solicitor says she has sent the receivers solicitor letters and calls with a list of stuff we need but they haven't sent anything

I don't even know where we are at the moment - here is a list of stuff needed

1.

Pat Mustard

mickman wrote: »

Hi everyone

I'm in the process of buying an unfinished house that is being sold by a receiver for a bank

We went sale agreed at end of sept and my solicitor received contracts at end of October

Since then , we have gotten no where. Our solicitor says she has sent the receivers solicitor letters and calls with a list of stuff we need but they haven't sent anything

I don't even know where we are at the moment - here is a list of stuff needed

1.

Not enough information in your post.

Your solicitor would raise pre-contract enquiries and would look for adequate responses. You would also need to have the property, services, planning and boundaries etc. checked by an engineer.

It's not clear that all or any of this has been done.

mickman

The Mustard wrote: »

Not enough information in your post.

Your solicitor would raise pre-contract enquiries and would look for adequate responses. You would also need to have the property, services, planning and boundaries etc. checked by an engineer.

It's not clear that all or any of this has been done.

sorry about that. was posting on my phone and posted by accident

I understand what you are saying but we are getting no where and some of the title queries seem crazy to me

For example , she is looking for proof of payment of the property tax - this house has never been lived in and is unfinished , why would there be a property tax? ?? And even if there was one due then i would pay it to get the deal over the line

Im not asking for legal advice but can i post a few other things she is looking for to see if they seem crazy ?

P.S. an engineer has checked the property and the planning and i have satisfactory reports on both.

Hannibal Smith

When you pay your property tax you get a property id number. Without a property id number you can't stamp your deed. If a deed isn't stamped within a month penalties start to acrue.

Picky solicitors (Im not be saying your solicitor is as I can see where they're coming from) can delay matters but generally they have your best interests at the backbone of their enquiries.

Perhaps make an appointment to see him/her and go through the enquiries and their reasons for raising them. It might settle your concerns.

mickman

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

When you pay your property tax you get a property id number. Without a property id number you can't stamp your deed. If a deed isn't stamped within a month penalties start to acrue.

Picky solicitors (Im not be saying your solicitor is as I can see where they're coming from) can delay matters but generally they have your best interests at the backbone of their enquiries.

Perhaps make an appointment to see him/her and go through the enquiries and their reasons for raising them. It might settle your concerns.

Yeah will do. When is a property deed created ? Builders bought this site off a developer and started to build the house themselves but ran into trouble so the house was repossesed, would the deed even exist at this stage ?

Could i contact the vendors solicitors myself to see where they are with this list of stuff ? As to be honest my solicitor just says " i have contacted them"

Hannibal Smith

mickman wrote: »

Yeah will do. When is a property deed created ? Builders bought this site off a developer and started to build the house themselves but ran into trouble so the house was repossesed, would the deed even exist at this stage ?

Could i contact the vendors solicitors myself to see where they are with this list of stuff ? As to be honest my solicitor just says " i have contacted them"

I wouldn't know. ..I haven't seen the documents. But i would think the transaction between the developer and the builder must have been completed otherwise the bank would have no footing to repossess the property because the mortgage deed wouldn't be completed yet..

Definitely do not contact the vendor's solicitors.

Talk it over with your solicitor because to be honest it sounds like there's a bit of communication error going on.

mickman

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I wouldn't know. ..I haven't seen the documents. But i would think the transaction between the developer and the builder must have been completed otherwise the bank would have no footing to repossess the property because the mortgage deed wouldn't be completed yet..

Definitely do not contact the vendor's solicitors.

Talk it over with your solicitor because to be honest it sounds like there's a bit of communication error going on.

ok thanks . Just one last thing

Is there anything i can do myself in order to find out if these bonds are still in existence ? We need to see the bond that was / is in place for the estate, others are living there so it should be in place but how can i get this ?

Buona Fortuna

I recall (many moons ago) when we bought our first house. It was on a green field site and we just wanted to move in - right or wrong. At the time, our solicitor was on about services this and public rights of way and all sorts.

Looking back I'm glad he did because we just wanted the house . I think the Mustard raises a valid point. I saw a TV programme years ago where a woman had bought an appartment in a French village. She moved in no trouble. It was only after she got in she found out there was no sewerage connection, or any quick way of getting one.

All I'm saying is that disasters can happen and thats what we pay solicitors to avoid. Hope the house goes well for ye;).

mickman

ok fair enough

thanks

Ken.

Have a look in the acc & prop forum. People buying houses from banks have had delays of a long time. Up to a year in some cases.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=38

Pat Mustard

mickman wrote: »

Is there anything i can do myself in order to find out if these bonds are still in existence ? We need to see the bond that was / is in place for the estate, others are living there so it should be in place but how can i get this ?

You or your engineer can enquire at the planning office.

mickman wrote: »

she is looking for proof of payment of the property tax - this house has never been lived in and is unfinished , why would there be a property tax? ?? And even if there was one due then i would pay it to get the deal over the line

If the property taxes do not apply, evidence is required. This is given by way of a statutory declaration that the property was not in use or suitable for use as a dwelling. These things should be nailed down pre-contract because sometimes it's not possible to resolve them easily afterwards.

mickman wrote: »

Im not asking for legal advice but can i post a few other things she is looking for to see if they seem crazy ?

Post away for the moment, but if they are against forum charter we may have to delete them, so you might bear that in mind.

Hannibal Smith

mickman wrote: »

ok thanks . Just one last thing

Is there anything i can do myself in order to find out if these bonds are still in existence ? We need to see the bond that was / is in place for the estate, others are living there so it should be in place but how can i get this ?

You can enquire with the local authority. It'll cost you. Some charge 40/50/75 euro. But if you want it pushed on you may not mind paying it. You can also check on cro.ie to see if the developer is still in existence.

Never assume anything. Bonds are only held for a certain number of years

mickman

Ok thanks
Here is the list

1. Property tax
2. Original folio not received for boundary check - only copy received
3. Indemnity regarding roads and services - sample copy received but not signed one
4. No evidence re bond put in place on estate planning permisdion is still in existence
5.evidence that bank inhibition on a sale was removed. Expired months ago
6. No copy of signed and dated deed for when property was originally purchased

Point 6 makes no sense - the site was purchased , not the property. Is it the site she means ?

Can I get any if the above myself , I will do anything to speed this up

If the docs can't be gotten , can they be recreated ?

Hannibal Smith

mickman wrote: »

Ok thanks
Here is the list

]1. Property tax

This is fair enough

2. Original folio not received for boundary check - only copy received

A copy should be enough as long as it has a colour copy map attached. But it is so important to check the boundaries.

3. Indemnity regarding roads and services - sample copy received but not signed one

Again, it is important to have a signed indemnity. If not the house owners are responsible for roads and services, if they haven't been taken in charge by the local authority.

4. No evidence re bond put in place on estate planning permisdion is still in existence

This is important especially if there's no signed indemnity.

5.evidence that bank inhibition on a sale was removed. Expired months ago

This seems a bit strange. Why would the bank register an inhibition if they already have a mortgage registered against the property?

6. No copy of signed and dated deed for when property was originally purchased

If there is no deed with the title deeds you can get a copy from the land registry. ..but this can take a bit of time.

Point 6 makes no sense - the site was purchased , not the property. Is it the site she means ?

Tbh im confused now lol. I would think site means property

Can I get any if the above myself , I will do anything to speed this up

If the docs can't be gotten , can they be recreated ?

There's nothing out of the ordinary with the above and they are things any solicitor would ask for.

mickman

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

mickman wrote: »

Ok thanks
Here is the list

]1. Property tax

This is fair enough

2. Original folio not received for boundary check - only copy received

A copy should be enough as long as it has a colour copy map attached. But it is so important to check the boundaries.

3. Indemnity regarding roads and services - sample copy received but not signed one

Again, it is important to have a signed indemnity. If not the house owners are responsible for roads and services, if they haven't been taken in charge by the local authority.

4. No evidence re bond put in place on estate planning permisdion is still in existence

This is important especially if there's no signed indemnity.

5.evidence that bank inhibition on a sale was removed. Expired months ago

This seems a bit strange. Why would the bank register an inhibition if they already have a mortgage registered against the property?

6. No copy of signed and dated deed for when property was originally purchased

If there is no deed with the title deeds you can get a copy from the land registry. ..but this can take a bit of time.

Point 6 makes no sense - the site was purchased , not the property. Is it the site she means ?

Tbh im confused now lol. I would think site means property

Can I get any if the above myself , I will do anything to speed this up

If the docs can't be gotten , can they be recreated ?

There's nothing out of the ordinary with the above and they are things any solicitor would ask for.

Ok thanks

Can I get points 3 and 4 from the local authority if I pay?

Not sure why the bank had an inhibition . It was for 3 months and expired back in April

Pat Mustard

mickman wrote: »

1. Property tax

As above. Need to nail down the situation regarding getting evidence that the taxes do not apply. Law Soc practice note on this.

mickman wrote: »

2. Original folio not received for boundary check - only copy received

Photocopies can distort the map. This is why copies may be no good. Engineer should be able to clarify this. For some reason, some engineers seem to accept copy maps for boundary checks but others do not. Generally, the original is required afaik.

mickman wrote: »

3. Indemnity regarding roads and services - sample copy received but not signed one

Draft indemnity is not an indemnity.

mickman wrote: »

4. No evidence re bond put in place on estate planning permisdion is still in existence

Could be very important depending on a number of factors, to include whether or not the estate has been taken in the charge of the local authority, how advanced the estate is regarding services, lighting, footpaths, roads, etc., etc. You or your engineer can check the bond with the planning office.

mickman wrote: »

5.evidence that bank inhibition on a sale was removed. Expired months ago

Expired and removed. Unclear why it was in place in the first place.

mickman wrote: »

6. No copy of signed and dated deed for when property was originally purchased


Point 6 makes no sense - the site was purchased , not the property. Is it the site she means ?

The site/land is the property.

It is unclear why this is being sought, but is this the original deed of transfer from the developer to the first purchaser of the house? If so, these would contain covenants, obligations and rights which may relate to burdens on the land registry folio. The solicitor has to check those.

OP, I don't see that your solicitor is slacking, as you say. Maybe she is, maybe she's not, but all I see is her carrying out queries, which is part of the job. That said, the sale is dragging out very unreasonably and at least one party must be at fault for that. You should contact your solicitor and find out why this is, what can be done and what is happening overall.

Also, you can ask your solicitor all of the above questions.

Hannibal Smith

Confirmation as to whether the bond is still in place you can. In fact you could ask your solicitor to do it. Its not within their remit. ..but if you want them to hurry it along its an option.

The indemnity, unfortunately not. Thats between the developer/management company and the original purchaser.

mickman

Ok thanks

can someone explain to me the difference between the indemnity for roads and services and the bond for the estate ?

The estate isn't handed over to the council and lights / footpaths are all done . Ten other houses in there all happy out

I'll get to work on the bond so with the council

Is there anything I can do about the indemnity ?

With regards to deed - don't know why this is sought. Developer sold site to a builder , builder then proceeded to build a house. Got halfway and stopped

Hannibal Smith

mickman wrote: »

Ok thanks

can someone explain to me the difference between the indemnity for roads and services and the bond for the estate ?

The estate isn't handed over to the council and lights / footpaths are all done . Ten other houses in there all happy out

I'll get to work on the bond so with the council

Is there anything I can do about the indemnity ?

With regards to deed - don't know why this is sought. Developer sold site to a builder , builder then proceeded to build a house. Got halfway and stopped

This is why you need to talk to your solicitor because it all sounds a bit odd.

Did the builder build the other houses too and then run out of money when it got to yours?

Im wondering was the transaction between the developer and the builder finalised because I can't see why the bank would register an inhibition.

The indemnity is made by the developer and serves as a protection to the purchaser against any action or claim taken until the roads and services are taken in charge by the local authority.

The planning permission will have a condition in it that a bond be lodged with them to be held until such time as the roads and services are completed to the satisfaction of the local authority and taken in charge by them. But the bond is only held for a certain period of time...I think 4 years?

The houses in the estate may have signed indemnities or they may have been satisfied at the time of purchase that the bond was still in place.

Either way it sounds like your solicitor is definitely doing their job. ..but have a meeting with her, ask her to go through everything and don't leave until you are crystal clear on the whys and hows.

mickman

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

This is why you need to talk to your solicitor because it all sounds a bit odd.

Did the builder build the other houses too and then run out of money when it got to yours?

Im wondering was the transaction between the developer and the builder finalised because I can't see why the bank would register an inhibition.

The indemnity is made by the developer and serves as a protection to the purchaser against any action or claim taken until the roads and services are taken in charge by the local authority.

The planning permission will have a condition in it that a bond be lodged with them to be held until such time as the roads and services are completed to the satisfaction of the local authority and taken in charge by them. But the bond is only held for a certain period of time...I think 4 years?

The houses in the estate may have signed indemnities or they may have been satisfied at the time of purchase that the bond was still in place.

Either way it sounds like your solicitor is definitely doing their job. ..but have a meeting with her, ask her to go through everything and don't leave until you are crystal clear on the whys and hows.

Ok thanks

Each house was built by a different builder. Developer had the sites , planning for site works and sold the sites individually

House was almost finished so I would think the agreement wax finalised

Maybe the builder of my house had many properties but had no mortgage on my house. Ran out of money so the bank took possession of all his property and placed inhibition on it ?

It sounds like the indemnity and the bond are the same thing ?? If a bond is in place then there is indemnity

Hannibal Smith

mickman wrote: »

Ok thanks

Each house was built by a different builder. Developer had the sites , planning for site works and sold the sites individually

House was almost finished so I would think the agreement wax finalised

Maybe the builder of my house had many properties but had no mortgage on my house. Ran out of money so the bank took possession of all his property and placed inhibition on it ?

It sounds like the indemnity and the bond are the same thing ?? If a bond is in place then there is indemnity

The bond protects the local authority and the indemnity protects the purchaser.

mickman

thanks for all the help lads.

can someone tell me if the existing dwellers have a signed indemnity, who would have signed that ? The developer or the developers insurance company ? If the developer is gone out of business now, does that indemnity still stand ?

What does it cover against ? Would it just cover someone getting injured outside your house or would it cover the fixing of any water / services issues or does the council do that anyway whether or not they have taken over the estate. Or does the indemnity only cover any problems before the estate services are finished (roads etc)

The roads / lights are all finished so does this mean the bond / indemnity arent important ? or less important

Pat Mustard

Okay, this is legal advice territory so I am closing this now.

OP, you have a solicitor, ask her those questions.