interviews

dalalada

How much time do etbs give in relation to an interview date and time? As in would they give a few days notice or same same?

rainbowtrout

It depends on the ETB and how fast they can get an interview panel together, when the job was advertised, if more than one job is advertised and if they intend on using the same interview panel to interview for multiple jobs, if there is only one job advertised and how soon that job begins.

dalalada

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It depends on the ETB and how fast they can get an interview panel together, when the job was advertised, if more than one job is advertised and if they intend on using the same interview panel to interview for multiple jobs, if there is only one job advertised and how soon that job begins.

I can clarify my situation in that yes there multiple jobs up by the same etb in and around the same time frame however some of the posts ask applications to be submitted by email and other through post, also the commencing date for the job im looking at is monday according to the ad.

The frustrations of teaching jobs is that even when your lucky to see one its probably gone or theres bureaucracy in play to make sure even if you apply correctly you may not make the cut.

dalalada

a little off topic, how long do these etb interviews last on the day?
and are they usually held in the actual school or another public place?

ethical

ETBs may have changed their names but they still have their VEC culture.Of course they will call you for interview and have a stock of cronies sitting there collecting expenses,granted there will also be a few others including local politicians and the ones that know nothing about education,they would not know a maths book if it hit them on the head!This is Ireland,the most corrupt little banana republic in the world.There are whistle-blowers appearing in the media from many sections of society,we had it in the Gardaí and more recently in the Health Service but nothing yet in teaching which could be the biggest cesspit of all if only the media actually listened to teachers and not put them down all the time.There are 'list' of untouchables strolling around this country who 'fix' interviews,they are aligned with the corrupt 'religious Boards' and ETB Boards with corruption and collusion from within the Education department!There are some cases coming to light in the near future which may 'out' some of this carry-on.

man_no_plan

ethical wrote: »

ETBs may have changed their names but they still have their VEC culture.Of course they will call you for interview and have a stock of cronies sitting there collecting expenses,granted there will also be a few others including local politicians and the ones that know nothing about education,they would not know a maths book if it hit them on the head!This is Ireland,the most corrupt little banana republic in the world.There are whistle-blowers appearing in the media from many sections of society,we had it in the Gardaí and more recently in the Health Service but nothing yet in teaching which could be the biggest cesspit of all if only the media actually listened to teachers and not put them down all the time.There are 'list' of untouchables strolling around this country who 'fix' interviews,they are aligned with the corrupt 'religious Boards' and ETB Boards with corruption and collusion from within the Education department!There are some cases coming to light in the near future which may 'out' some of this carry-on.

Same nonsense different thread. ...

If you have information that supports your allegations why don't you do something about it instead of ranting and raving on the internet .

mirrorwall14

I have a full time CID from an ETB where I knew nobody either in the school itself or involved in the panel. It's not about who you know, that interview was five years ago when it was a VEC (and there was three on the panel)

ethical

'Same nonsense different thread. ...

If you have information that supports your allegations why don't you do something about it instead of ranting and raving on the internet .'

Did not expect anything else!!!!
There are a number of cases going through and the information is sensitive at the moment but I should imagine it will be in the papers soon.

seavill

Well maybe it's best not to be mentioning it here or anywhere so you don't jepordise anything.

Op there are always those very few cases where the connection does it in all walks of life but the conspiracys here that every job that's posted is one of them is just silly stuff. For everyone that claims they didn't get a job cause it was gone to someone with a connection I can Name 10 that got jobs fair and square.

Some jobs are genuinely gone but legally they must interview. I'm sure some people like claiming their expenses but is imagine most principals would love to avoid all the hassle but they must advertise and interview. It may be s case of someone who stepped in one day subbing which turned into a proper job a few weeks down the line. That person is qualified and doing a fantastic job but they must still advertise and interview. Why replace them with an unknown if they are doing a great job for you and you are happy with them. It's nothing to do with connections its a bit if luck one day. That was how I got 2 previous jobs in 2 difference vecs not knowing anyone in either.

Conspiracies are great but realism is more helpful

f3232

I suggested a more transparent interview marking process for interviews in a pervious thread -clear scoring systems based on experience education qualifications- interview question responses etc etc and also compulsory feedback- and was derided by the majority of posters.

The system for hiring teachers absolutely stinks in the country. And when people seek transparency they get labeled whingers.

I know of one example this year-teacher looking to relocate <'mod snip> willing to give up a permanent job in Dublin for it-11 years experience-exemplary track record year head and masters-job given to a person out of college <'mod snip... bit too much identifying info there>

The system is shocking it needs to be reformed and any teacher on here who says "where is the evidence"-one piece of advice- get your head out of the sand.

seavill

It stinks in some cases not all.

Funnily enough we had something similar happen in the past where two people started on the same day. One 15 years experience who was relocating and the other either just out of college or only one years subbing.
The experienced teacher was a disaster and new one was amazing. The experienced teacher couldn't handle change and having to do things a different way. Came in telling everyone what they were doing wrong all these years and how to improve the school. Couldn't handle the kids, had lived a sheltered life in the previous school. And ended up alienating themselves from the staff completely by end if first year.
I'm not saying that's the case like above. I'm not saying that favouritism wasn't shown in the school you describe. I'm simply saying if I was a principal and the same situation occurred again Id seriously consider my options rather than giving the job to the experienced person just cause they were experienced.

Bobsammy

dalalada wrote: »

a little off topic, how long do these etb interviews last on the day?
and are they usually held in the actual school or another public place?

It depends on the ETB. Some do them in Head Office some do them in the schools.
In my experience about 15 to 20 minutes is normal and that's been when I've been successful and unsuccessful.
I find the ETBs tend to give a fair bit of notice for interviews, I'd say usually a week and I've never not heard back from an etb after an interview unlike quite a few other schools I've interviewed in.

f3232

seavill wrote: »

It stinks in some cases not all.

Funnily enough we had something similar happen in the past where two people started on the same day. One 15 years experience who was relocating and the other either just out of college or only one years subbing.
The experienced teacher was a disaster and new one was amazing. The experienced teacher couldn't handle change and having to do things a different way. Came in telling everyone what they were doing wrong all these years and how to improve the school. Couldn't handle the kids, had lived a sheltered life in the previous school. And ended up alienating themselves from the staff completely by end if first year.
I'm not saying that's the case like above. I'm not saying that favouritism wasn't shown in the school you describe. I'm simply saying if I was a principal and the same situation occurred again Id seriously consider my options rather than giving the job to the experienced person just cause they were experienced.

I dont see the point your making here. I can point to numerous examples of where NQTS are a complete disaster and that's not really the question. The point is that there should be transparency in the interview process. If in your example the NQT got the job for what ever reason -let that be set out to the candidates or if not the candidates to an independent review body at a later stage. Transparency, accountability, fairness that's all I am talking about. No one has anything to fear about such a system other that those that benefit from unfairness lack of transparency and cronyism.

dalalada

I assumed that in an interview we had to teach a class as part of it like britian but only found out that no in fact we dont!
An ounce of actions worth a ton of theory.

TheDriver

I have never seen cronyism is any ETB/VEC interview I have been at. I have however experienced people unhappy because they feel they should have gotten the job and find it difficult to understand they weren't the best person for the role. Then the various conspiracies and unpleasantness starts.....

f3232

TheDriver wrote: »

I have never seen cronyism is any ETB/VEC interview I have been at. I have however experienced people unhappy because they feel they should have gotten the job and find it difficult to understand they weren't the best person for the role. Then the various conspiracies and unpleasantness starts.....

Similar attitude among the leadership of The guards. Cronyism? Whinging whistle blowers.

Never seen cronyism in Ireland? Does not filter down to every aspect of public life? I must be living in a different dimension.

Conspiracy theories would be put to bed if there was real transparency.

man_no_plan

f3232 wrote: »

Similar attitude among the leadership of The guards. Cronyism? Whinging whistle blowers.

Never seen cronyism in Ireland? Does not filter down to every aspect of public life? I must be living in a different dimension.

Conspiracy theories would be put to bed if there was real transparency.

Any suggestions as to how it might work?

f3232

man_no_plan wrote: »

Any suggestions as to how it might work?

Such a system would be impossible to implement- it would be unworkable. QED we are left with he status quo.

man_no_plan

If there's a problem there's a solution.

Unfortunately, as is often the case, its easier to whine about something and blame people than to do something yourself.

f3232

man_no_plan wrote: »

If there's a problem there's a solution.

Unfortunately, as is often the case, its easier to whine about something and blame people than to do something yourself.

I have brought the issue up at branch meetings and when union rep. Tried to advise colleagues. The system is secretive nebulous with a veneer of transparency as box ticking exercise.

And I have suggested in an earlier thread a method of ensuring transparency.

man_no_plan

f3232 wrote: »

I have brought the issue up at branch meetings and when union rep. Tried to advise colleagues. The system is secretive nebulous with a veneer of transparency as box ticking exercise.

And I have suggested in an earlier thread a method of ensuring transparency.

Apologies for not reading all of your previous posts to find it.

rainbowtrout

f3232 wrote: »

I have brought the issue up at branch meetings and when union rep. Tried to advise colleagues. The system is secretive nebulous with a veneer of transparency as box ticking exercise.

And I have suggested in an earlier thread a method of ensuring transparency.

It has to start at the root of the process. Perfectly good teachers who are applying for jobs are not being short listed. Now I know not everyone can be short listed but I have seen subs work a maternity leave in my school and get on very well and then when the same maternity leave comes up 2 years later not even get short listed. In some cases they have been in subbing for a few weeks as the teacher has gone on leave early and cover was needed. Less experienced teachers have been called for interview instead.

I have seen this on numerous occasions in my school. My own personal belief, a belief which is shared my the majority of my staffroom is that someone (our principal or someone within our ETB) has ear marked someone for the job, and to short list the previous candidate would mean they would probably succeed at the interview having more experience and getting on well in all their previous schools, good results, made a huge contribution to school life, extra curricular etc. So a candidate who is well able for the job doesn't get a look in so the job can be given to someone else.

Another example of this is a friend of mine who applied for a job last year. The job was a career break I think. Anyway, the majority of the hours (about 20) were in her subject area. She is qualified in 4 LC subjects, SEC examiner etc, teaching 10+ years. She happened to have examined in the school where the person was who eventually got the job. The successful candidate was teaching for 1 year. Teaching in a grinds school. Not qualified in the main subject area. When my friend asked for feedback she was told she lost out in the qualifications section because the successful teacher had a masters and she did not and also my friend did not have a nursing qualification. The other 2 hours on the timetable was a FETAC module in a Nursing PLC. To the best of my knowledge it was an Anatomy/Physiology type thing where my friend is Biology/Ag Science/ Maths which is what the remainder of the hours were in. The successful candidate was not qualified in Ag Science/Maths.

So you do have to ask about the ETB system. In some areas it may be fair, but in others it isn't. The system is 'fair' in that candidates can get a copy of their marks for the interview, but it's not fair if more experienced teachers don't even get short listed and if the marks in an interview can be weighted to ensure a certain candidate gets the job.

f3232

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It has to start at the root of the process. Perfectly good teachers who are applying for jobs are not being short listed. Now I know not everyone can be short listed but I have seen subs work a maternity leave in my school and get on very well and then when the same maternity leave comes up 2 years later not even get short listed. In some cases they have been in subbing for a few weeks as the teacher has gone on leave early and cover was needed. Less experienced teachers have been called for interview instead.

I have seen this on numerous occasions in my school. My own personal belief, a belief which is shared my the majority of my staffroom is that someone (our principal or someone within our ETB) has ear marked someone for the job, and to short list the previous candidate would mean they would probably succeed at the interview having more experience and getting on well in all their previous schools, good results, made a huge contribution to school life, extra curricular etc. So a candidate who is well able for the job doesn't get a look in so the job can be given to someone else.

Another example of this is a friend of mine who applied for a job last year. The job was a career break I think. Anyway, the majority of the hours (about 20) were in her subject area. She is qualified in 4 LC subjects, SEC examiner etc, teaching 10+ years. She happened to have examined in the school where the person was who eventually got the job. The successful candidate was teaching for 1 year. Teaching in a grinds school. Not qualified in the main subject area. When my friend asked for feedback she was told she lost out in the qualifications section because the successful teacher had a masters and she did not and also my friend did not have a nursing qualification. The other 2 hours on the timetable was a FETAC module in a Nursing PLC. To the best of my knowledge it was an Anatomy/Physiology type thing where my friend is Biology/Ag Science/ Maths which is what the remainder of the hours were in. The successful candidate was not qualified in Ag Science/Maths.

So you do have to ask about the ETB system. In some areas it may be fair, but in others it isn't. The system is 'fair' in that candidates can get a copy of their marks for the interview, but it's not fair if more experienced teachers don't even get short listed and if the marks in an interview can be weighted to ensure a certain candidate gets the job.

Nothing more than hear say from a begrudger.:)