Strava: Uh oh! Invasion of the BKOOL cyclists!

Kodos

Last weekend I checked the Strava Activity Tracker (labs.strava.com/flyby) for a spin I had completed around Howth. I noticed a track for a Norwegian guy who was shown coming towards me on the coast road at a serious pace (50kmh+), but I did not meet anyone at that speed, so I checked his spin on Strava. He was using BKOOL (bkool.com), it is a turbo trainer and 3D simulator, and he had cycled the final part of stage 3 of the Giro 2014 (from his home in Norway!). The whole spin showed up on the Activity Tracker, but the spin did not show up on any of the individual segments, so he did not get any KOMs.

Today I got an "Uh oh!" email from Strava. It seems that last night a Spanish cyclist blasted in from Swords to the city centre, against a headwind, and hovered up a bunch of KOMs. You can check his spin here: strava.com/activities/228516647. He was using BKOOL too, but now these turbo/simulator spins are starting to show as real spins, and there are a couple of others showing up along the Giro stage 3 route and KOMs are being assigned. I imagine that some other cyclists on here have also received "Uh oh!" emails. I have not flagged his spin, not yet anyway, because I guess that Strava and/or BKOOL will address this very quickly (assuming that they can filter out BKOOL spins based on GPS details).

BKOOL is interesting, it is basically a cool game, but I don’t want to have to have to defend real hard-earned KOMs against turbo-training virtual cyclists who aren’t pushing any air!

markusz

Kodos wrote: »

Last weekend I checked the Strava Activity Tracker (labs.strava.com/flyby) for a spin I had completed around Howth. I noticed a track for a Norwegian guy who was shown coming towards me on the coast road at a serious pace (50kmh+), but I did not meet anyone at that speed, so I checked his spin on Strava. He was using BKOOL (bkool.com), it is a turbo trainer and 3D simulator, and he had cycled the final part of stage 3 of the Giro 2014 (from his home in Norway!). The whole spin showed up on the Activity Tracker, but the spin did not show up on any of the individual segments, so he did not get any KOMs.

Today I got an "Uh oh!" email from Strava. It seems that last night a Spanish cyclist blasted in from Swords to the city centre, against a headwind, and hovered up a bunch of KOMs. You can check his spin here: strava.com/activities/228516647. He was using BKOOL too, but now these turbo/simulator spins are starting to show as real spins, and there are a couple of others showing up along the Giro stage 3 route and KOMs are being assigned. I imagine that some other cyclists on here have also received "Uh oh!" emails. I have not flagged his spin, not yet anyway, because I guess that Strava and/or BKOOL will address this very quickly (assuming that they can filter out BKOOL spins based on GPS details).

BKOOL is interesting, it is basically a cool game, but I don’t want to have to have to defend real hard-earned KOMs against turbo-training virtual cyclists who aren’t pushing any air!

49.3kmh average speed and power of only 150watts avg... thats a joke
they'll have to fix that

The tax man

Zyzz is onto his legal team as we speak.

lennymc

markusz wrote: »

49.3kmh average speed and power of only 150watts avg... thats a joke
they'll have to fix that

that with a power meter of strava's estimates?

Koobcam

I think there is also Tacx software which does something similar. It shows up on Strava as though the rider were actually in the place, with a map, segments, the lot. Very odd. I find it quite interesting though that a cyclist from Spain wants to go for a virtual spin in Swords. I mean, there must be more interesting places you could pick for a spin (no offence to anyone from Swords), or is it just trying to nick KoMs that you think no-one will notice?

mathie

Exact same experience here ....

I noticed a segment I've done a few times getting "interesting" results.

strava.com/segments/7312255

If you look at the new KOM (Jose) and the no 3. (David) and check out their rides ....

David (38 mins @ 45.3 kmph average speed)
Jose (34 mins @ 49.3 kmph average speed)

They both cleaned up KOMs all over the place.

seamus

Koobcam wrote: »

I think there is also Tacx software which does something similar. It shows up on Strava as though the rider were actually in the place, with a map, segments, the lot. Very odd. I find it quite interesting though that a cyclist from Spain wants to go for a virtual spin in Swords. I mean, there must be more interesting places you could pick for a spin (no offence to anyone from Swords), or is it just trying to nick KoMs that you think no-one will notice?

I doubt there's anything sinister in it. It basically allows people to upload the "I did a virtual Giro Stage!" to their social media. Strava also automatically syncs with a number of services now, so the people involved may only be uploading the data to Garmin, for e.g. and not intending it to go to Strava.

In strava it just has the unintended consequence of breaking the KOM system because Strava thinks it's receiving real data rather than GPS traces with turbo trainer data overlaid on them.

It's probable that there are plenty of ways for Strava to detect these and automatically tag them as turbo trainer sessions.

If someone really wanted to cheat the system, you could write something to create fake activities with all of the data and say that you did the Wicklow 200 @ 70km/h. No actual effort required.

Leroy42

And it matters because?

sconhome

Koobcam wrote: »

I find it quite interesting though that a cyclist from Spain wants to go for a virtual spin in Swords.

Wait til you see the amount of people virtually cycling the Dublin 70.3 route for next August. Turbo training their way through the winter.

On the Tacx I can upload a GPX from a real ride, ride it virtually, save it and export from Tacx to import into Strava, why bother??

Quigs Snr

My wahoo kickr does the same thing except although it records your ride on Strava and in erg mode controls the resistance based on the route gps data. ...it does not record the gps data for your session hence you cannot interfere with any leader boards. .. just as well because I am much quicker on those same routes on a real bike than I am indoors.... stupid realism grrrr

mathie

Leroy42 wrote: »

And it matters because?

I base my whole sense of self worth on my position on segments.

petethedrummer

Leroy42 wrote: »

And it matters because?

Well firstly, to get those times you would have to jump red lights and mount footpaths. These virtual cyclists have no respect for the rules of the road.:mad:

Idleater

Would it be possible to "climb the Tourmalet" on this virtual device perchance?

Koobcam

Idleater wrote: »

Would it be possible to "climb the Tourmalet" on this virtual device perchance?

yes

Kodos

I must admit that I never really gave much thought to nefarious means of obtaining KOMs, at least barring the obvious methods that require you to actually be in the location of the segment at least once, but using GPS/GPX files combined with turbo data is a special kind of teleportation-enabled, time-travelling, KOM-stealing evil genius!

As to the question of why all this really matters... Well, you know, Friday!

smacl

Idleater wrote: »

Would it be possible to "climb the Tourmalet" on this virtual device perchance?

Gradients can be a well dodgy on VR turbos, certainly so with my tacx Flow. The amount of resistance is quite limited unless you've a high end unit with a motor brake, so once you hit max resistance it 'simulates' the gradient by reducing your on-screen speed. All well and good, but not exactly in the same league as coughing up a lung going up Kilmashogue, let along going anywhere near the Tourmalet.

Wishbone Ash

The tax man wrote: »

Zyzz is onto his legal team as we speak.

Speaking of Zyzz, he seems to have gone to ground lately. Nothing uploaded to Strava in a while!

The tax man

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Speaking of Zyzz, he seems to have gone to ground lately. Nothing uploaded to Strava in a while!

On my phone atm, awkward to search on Boards, but when did he last post here?
Hope one of those crazy downhill KOM's didn't go wrong.

Wishbone Ash

The tax man wrote: »

On my phone atm, awkward to search on Boards, but when did he last post here?
Hope one of those crazy downhill KOM's didn't go wrong.

He last posted on 6th December on the "Tell us about you cycle today" thread.

Last Strava activity on 25th November.

greenmat

Jaysus Beasty will be in meltdown with this news. Imagine some guy with a Cycling Lair mopping up all the KOM's. Actually thinking about it, Beasty would love that

godtabh

greenmat wrote: »

Jaysus Beasty will be in meltdown with this news. Imagine some guy with a Cycling Lair mopping up all the KOM's. Actually thinking about it, Beasty would love that

Have you seen his home set up?

greenmat

godtabh wrote: »

Have you seen his home set up?

Yea, it's not too bad

Wishbone Ash

greenmat wrote: »

Jaysus Beasty will be in meltdown with this news....

Bad enough that the real Giro relieved him of a clutch of them when it whisked through NCD without some wannabe's doing further damage.

Craig06

I have the BKool pro and it's great. Very realistic climbing.

Zyzz

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Speaking of Zyzz, he seems to have gone to ground lately. Nothing uploaded to Strava in a while!

The tax man wrote: »

On my phone atm, awkward to search on Boards, but when did he last post here?
Hope one of those crazy downhill KOM's didn't go wrong.

Still here lads!

Motivation has gone down the toilet the past while, I don't have the balls to check how many KOM's I've lost! May have to invest in this BKOOL system! :pac:

Wishbone Ash

You're back!

Wishbone Ash

Zyzz wrote: »

... I don't have the balls to check how many KOM's I've lost!...

Just take a leaf out of Beasty's book - don't update your Veloviewer status!

Zyzz

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Just take a leaf out of Beasty's book - don't update your Veloviewer status!

I've heard the creator is now charging a premium price to see the info, so it's a blessing in disguise! The old Xmas weight is going to do me no favours at all either!