Metal detector&findings legal?

dl87

I have been reading extensively about the use of metal detectors. I know someone who owns and uses one. Who several months ago went to the Phoenix park, purposely searching for things and dug up some very old artefacts including part of an old gun. Also what looks like an old whistle, a medal, coins and belt buckles.

They are sitting on this persons kitchen table since they found them and although I told them myself it's probably not ok that they keep it, they were not bothered.

So I went to the guards about this today, face to face. I Showed the Garda photos but apparently its ok. It's allowed. I have read that findings such as these belong to the Irish people. They should be in a museum, for the Irish people. I have read that if you don't report findings within 14 days you can be fined or imprisoned. So which is the truth??

I'm very curious to know if there is an actual law against it.

slowburner

dl87 wrote: »

I have been reading extensively about the use of metal detectors. I know someone who owns and uses one. Who several months ago went to the Phoenix park, purposely searching for things and dug up some very old artefacts including part of an old gun. Also what looks like an old whistle, a medal, coins and belt buckles.

They are sitting on this persons kitchen table since they found them and although I told them myself it's probably not ok that they keep it, they were not bothered.

So I went to the guards about this today, face to face. I Showed the Garda photos but apparently its ok. It's allowed. I have read that findings such as these belong to the Irish people. They should be in a museum, for the Irish people. I have read that if you don't report findings within 14 days you can be fined or imprisoned. So which is the truth??

I'm very curious to know if there is an actual law against it.

Please read the stickies regarding the law and metal detecting.
If the Garda told you that this action was 'allowed', he or she was severely misinformed.
All the relevant information is contained in the stickies on the subject.
More than one offence has been committed:
Use of a metal detector to search for archaeological objects.
Use of a metal detector without a license.
Digging for archaeological objects without a license.
Failure to notify the authorities of finds within 96 hours.

dl87

Thankyou.

So it depends on the guard themself and how bothered they are to do their job?
Is there anywhere else I could go about this?

I also informed this guard about two weed plants been grown and consumed on these same premises. The only thing they will do is check these people out to see if they have any similar offences only then can they can get a warrant to search the premises.

Luke92

dl87 wrote: »

Thankyou.

So it depends on the guard themself and how bothered they are to do their job?
Is there anywhere else I could go about this?

I also informed this guard about two weed plants been grown and consumed on these same premises. The only thing they will do is check these people out to see if they have any similar offences only then can they can get a warrant to search the premises.

Not a very good friend! Ya mad grass!

I know I'll probably get banned but has to be said in all fairness.

dl87

not my friends in the slightest

robp

Luke92 wrote: »

Not a very good friend! Ya mad grass!

I know I'll probably get banned but has to be said in all fairness.

Right and wrong should trump loyalty.

cfuserkildare

Hi Slowburner,

Regarding the statement below,

"Please read the stickies regarding the law and metal detecting.
If the Garda told you that this action was 'allowed', he or she was severely misinformed.
All the relevant information is contained in the stickies on the subject.
More than one offence has been committed:
Use of a metal detector to search for archaeological objects.
Use of a metal detector without a license.
Digging for archaeological objects without a license.
Failure to notify the authorities of finds within 96 hours.

I may have interpreted this incorrectly, but are the three points highlighted above only relevant if the person is actively seeking Archaeological or Ancient artifacts?

Also, getting authorities other than an Archaeologist to act on the law is very frustrating here, as was evidenced by my report of the desecration of the burial mound at Rathmore.

cfuserkildare

I just re-read the initial post and see that the location may be the issue.

Is the Pheonix park a protected site?

If so, then ignore the first half of my comment above.

pueblo

Luke92 wrote: »

Not a very good friend! Ya mad grass!

I know I'll probably get banned but has to be said in all fairness.

Grassin' on the grass....:P

slowburner

cfuserkildare wrote: »

I may have interpreted this incorrectly, but are the three points highlighted above only relevant if the person is actively seeking Archaeological or Ancient artifacts?

This detectorist was searching for archaeological objects - and found some.
The point is that something does not have to be ancient to be an archaeological object.
Here is the global definition from the National Cultural Institutions Act, 1997.

“archaeological object” means any chattel* whether in a manufactured or partly manufactured or an unmanufactured state which by reason of the archaeological interest attaching thereto or of its association with any Irish historical event or person has a value substantially greater than its intrinsic (including artistic) value, and the said expression includes ancient human, animal or plant remains;

(*chattel is any personal property other than real estate.)

So, in essence, this means that pretty much anything is an archaeological object, if it informs us about the past. And the degree to which it informs us about our past is best determined by someone qualified to do so.

The collection mentioned above is almost certainly of historical importance and ought to be brought to the NMI. They will decide on the merit of the finds.

dl87

The national museum of ireland have been informed.
They have photographic evidence of the items and information on where they are and who found them.
The guard was indeed wrong.

Dr Strange

The journal.ie have this story today:

http://www.thejournal.ie/buried-treasure-coins-metal-detector-1931304-Feb2015/?utm_source=shortlink

It's a find from the UK and apparently the guy who found it plans on buying a house with the profits.

The comments under the article speak volumes.

Dr Strange

Now ads of metal detector finds on adverts.ie:
http://www.adverts.ie/7445974

Sometimes you can come across some ads which are much better hidden and only reveal in their comments section that they are actually "detector finds" and similar wordings.

The finds seem to come from the UK though I have seen ads on adverts.ie which clearly came from Ireland.

dr gonzo

Preusse wrote: »

The comments under the article speak volumes.

I think that comment section has taken a few years off me...

slowburner

One of many holes dug very recently by an Irish metal detectorist within feet of a National Monument. He was in possession of a number of coins and admitted to having 'a bucketful at home'.
The case is with the Gardaí.

Rubecula

The laws I think are a bit different over here, but as I am not sure about them I sold my metal detector. Tha lad I sold it too had the idea it was the same as Ground Radar, how did I know this? Well he wanted to teach his son to hunt for fossils.

It may work if the fossils had amalgam/metal fillings in the teeth. Tried to tell him, but he was having nothing to do with my explanations. Oh well. Besides I was fed up with finding old chain link fences buried all over the place.

StewartGriffin

I think this law has done more harm than good over the years. Take an example of a farmer, reclaiming his land, comes across something, what does he do? Keep it quiet, because he doesn't want the hassle of a multi-year delay while the Dept. figures out what to do with it. I know that this is common.

Even take a man digging in his garden, finds something, whats he gonna do? Mostly keep it quiet for the same reason.

Businesses and construction work, - well what do you think?

The bad news is that they don't just ignore a law to report it, they bulldoze right through it. So it's lost. Forever.

What's wrong with having kids out there with metal detectors, trying to dig up history before it all rots or gets smashed the same way a lot already has?

robp

StewartGriffin wrote: »

I think this law has done more harm than good over the years. Take an example of a farmer, reclaiming his land, comes across something, what does he do? Keep it quiet, because he doesn't want the hassle of a multi-year delay while the Dept. figures out what to do with it. I know that this is common.

Even take a man digging in his garden, finds something, whats he gonna do? Mostly keep it quiet for the same reason.

Businesses and construction work, - well what do you think?

The bad news is that they don't just ignore a law to report it, they bulldoze right through it. So it's lost. Forever.

What's wrong with having kids out there with metal detectors, trying to dig up history before it all rots or gets smashed the same way a lot already has?

In countries where there is a pessimism attitude to metal detecting you still have the same issues. In England if builders or farmers make a find they are obligated to report it and I am sure sites sometimes go unreported. There is no way to avoid that. Thankfully most people are honest and are genuinely interested in the history associated with their land.

Usually when a farmer makes a find there is no excavation as the site is not under threat and there is no one to pay for it. Typically the site is surveyed in a matter of hours and everything is soon back to normal.

slowburner

StewartGriffin wrote: »

What's wrong with having kids out there with metal detectors, trying to dig up history before it all rots or gets smashed the same way a lot already has?

You have answered your own question there.

StewartGriffin

slowburner wrote: »

You have answered your own question there.

How?

Simon.d

StewartGriffin wrote: »

How?

"Digging up History" is destructive as it smashes the archaeology..

Even when done under the highly controlled environment of an archaeological dig information on the past is destroyed and lost forever.. Digging is inherently destructive..

So the logic of smashing something in the present to save it from being potentially smashed in the future is very questionable..

StewartGriffin

Simon.d wrote: »

"Digging up History" is destructive as it smashes the archaeology..

Even when done under the highly controlled environment of an archaeological dig information on the past is destroyed and lost forever.. Digging is inherently destructive..

So the logic of smashing something in the present to save it from being potentially smashed in the future is very questionable..

Okay. But you are assuming it would be smashed. Objects might take a bit of damage, but leaving it closeted underground, running the risk of it being buldozed, in the hope it will someday be rescued in pristine condition (by who?), is overly protective in my opinion.

davycc

how close was he?

slowburner wrote: »

One of many holes dug very recently by an Irish metal detectorist within feet of a National Monument. He was in possession of a number of coins and admitted to having 'a bucketful at home'.
The case is with the Gardaí.