The court case today...

Penfailed

...I heard about on the news...did anyone hear the outcome.

It was the one about the worst single car accident in the history of the state where eight people died. The young fella who was driving was up today. I've checked a few news sources and can't find anything...

Cee-Jay-Cee

Sentencing adjourned until the 18th December. I have no idea why the judge didn't sentence him today.

lulu1

Dread to think what kind of xmas hin and his family will have Not forgetting the famlies of the fellas that were killed

Penfailed

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Sentencing adjourned until the 18th December. I have no idea why the judge didn't sentence him today.

Adjourned again? This case has been put off over and over. It's prolonging the heartache for everyone involved

Broxi_Bear_Eire

It was adjourned because seemingly his solicitor was ill

opiniated

It's up again today.
I haven't heard the outcome, yet.
I really feel for all the families involved, especially this close to Christmas.

Maldesu

Looks like he has been sentenced. 4 years with 2 years suspended. Also banned from driving for 10 years.

More here

schemingbohemia

Is that 2 months per person killed by him? 24 months prison, 1 third remission, 2 months X 8 people dead.

Ash.J.Williams

They can't defend themselves, but if there was 7 people in a car then they were all involved and an innocent man was killed. Two of them should have said no, and waited for a 2nd car. The handling of a passat would definitely be impaired with 7 on board.

2moreMinutes

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Is that 2 months per person killed by him? 24 months prison, 1 third remission, 2 months X 8 people dead.

What's a fair amount of time to make up for someone dying? A year per person? Ten years? Forty years?

Don't think any case and this one in particular can simply be broken down into how long the sentence is per person that died.

schemingbohemia

<MOD SNIP>

Mod Note: Without links to back up the claims made I'm not allowing what can only be perceived as conjecture.

muffler

MOD NOTE: We are not going to revisit the whole sad event again. That was done and dusted in the past so we can stick to the topic now please. Thanks.

paulmclaughlin

2moreMinutes wrote: »

What's a fair amount of time to make up for someone dying? A year per person? Ten years? Forty years?

Don't think any case and this one in particular can simply be broken down into how long the sentence is per person that died.

I agree.

I believe the punishment he received, four years in prison with the last two years suspended, is suitable for the crime of dangerous driving.

But, he has to live with having killed 7 people, most of whom were his best friends. I'm sure he already feels bad enough and requires rehabilitation instead of more prison time, which I believe would not benefit anyone.

Thumpette

I'm surprised that the overwhelming feeling around this seems to be that the man has suffered enough and shouldn't face any sentence. I'm not doubting that it's a horrendous thing for him to live with but there's no denying he drove dangerously with shattering consequences. As much as a lesson for other people as anything I think it's right that there's a custodial sentence here to show there are tangible consequences to these snap decisions.

spurious

I'd be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt if he <MOD SNIP>

MOD Note: As stated above links will need to be provided to back up claims.

userod

spurious wrote: »

I'd be more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt if he <MOD SNIP>

MOD Note: As stated above links will need to be provided to back up claims.

It's in the link above if you just read it. He was caught speeding since.

http://www.highlandradio.com/2014/12/18/inishowen-crash-shaun-kelly-sentenced-to-four-years-in-prison-with-two-suspended/



He even tried to give a fake name. I'm surprised that incident didn't have more of an impact in sentencing. Also interesting the media don't seem to have played on it too much?

It seems like a rather massive aspect of the case to me to be honest.

"Also on 15 May Kelly was stopped on Buncrana Main St at 240am after he was observed speeding.

Mr Kelly gave a fake name, Christopher O’Donnell, but when he was asked to produce his licence he admitted he was Shaun Kelly."

muffler

userod wrote: »

It's in the link above if you just read it. He was caught speeding since.[/I]

He wasn't caught speeding as you put it nor was he charged or convicted for any speeding offense.

I have read 2 different online news reports of today's case which have outlined his convictions - one before the accident which was for dangerous driving and one after the accident for driving without a number plate. Neither of those reports stated that he was convicted of speeding at any time.

Accordingly I'd prefer if this point wasn't mentioned again in the thread please.

userod

muffler wrote: »

He wasn't caught speeding as you put it

:rolleyes:
See my post above.

Cee-Jay-Cee

muffler wrote: »

He wasn't caught speeding as you put it nor was he charged or convicted for any speeding offense.

I have read 2 different online news reports of today's case which have outlined his convictions - one before the accident which was for dangerous driving and one after the accident for driving without a number plate.

I know it's only a minor matter not having a number plate but does it not smack of pure 'couldn't give a sh*te' attitude that someone who is awaiting trial for the deaths of 8 persons in the worst road traffic accident in Irish history is so care free and flippant about his driving.

I personally think the sentence was too lenient. Everyone makes mistakes and deserves a chance but not for mistakes that kill 8 innocent people.

Ive read so many comments on other forums, social media saying that his 7 friends were willing passengers but they didn't know he was going to drive in such a fashion that would kill them, they woukdnt have been so willing if they were aware of that. They were all drinking and possibly slightly drunk, Shaun Kelly was the only sober one yet he was the one that acted the most recklessly and dangerous.

The sentence should have been a clear deterrent to other Young and reckless drivers, its far from it.

Pique

Utter joke of a sentence.

The maximum is 9 or 10 years for death by dangerous driving.
He killed 8 peopl by dangerous driving.
He was previously convicted of dangerous driving.
He denied responsibility for 4 years and tried to blame a lucky motorist who wasn't killed.

Should've gotten at least 10 years.

And no, I don't hink "well he'll have to live with it" is any consideration. If he actually felt guilty for killing his 7 friends, he would've admitted responsibility long before now.

He'll be out in less than 18 months. 2 months per life.

Ridiculous sentence and I hope the DPP appeals the leniency.

IP freely

Pique wrote: »

Utter joke of a sentence.

The maximum is 9 or 10 years for death by dangerous driving.
He killed 8 peopl by dangerous driving.
He was previously convicted of dangerous driving.
He denied responsibility for 4 years and tried to blame a lucky motorist who wasn't killed.

Should've gotten at least 10 years.

And no, I don't hink "well he'll have to live with it" is any consideration. If he actually felt guilty for killing his 7 friends, he would've admitted responsibility long before now.

He'll be out in less than 18 months. 2 months per life.

Ridiculous sentence and I hope the DPP appeals the leniency.

Just picking on on the section in bold here. How could he have admitted to anything when he has absolutely no recollection of the accident itself. That isn't hearsay or word of mouth its from a medical professional appointed to the case. At the end of the day regardless of what the case be it a litter fine of murder charge if you ain't sure yourself what has happened you will ask the lawer and if he / she tells you plead not guilty you plead not guilty.

Its a shocking case I do think that the broader picture here is 4 of the poor deceased lads families pleaded with the judge to not send him to prison, that speaks volumes in itself. He had to be sent for some time though no matter how morally right or wrong we all think it is. The judge took everything into consideration and if you ask me got it spot on.

kjbsrah1

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

I agree.

I believe the punishment he received, four years in prison with the last two years suspended, is suitable for the crime of dangerous driving.

But, he has to live with having killed 7 people, most of whom were his best friends. I'm sure he already feels bad enough and requires rehabilitation instead of more prison time, which I believe would not benefit anyone.

Nothing can change what has happened. That lad has a life sentence that only he can bear. He will never sleep in peace. His family will never sleep in peace. One of his parents [assuming both parents are alive and he lives at home] will always be checking in on him at night to make sure he is still there. I know of a woman whose son a few years ago was a driver of a car in which two of his friends were killed and to this day she cannot sleep at night as she has to keep checking on him to make sure he is still alive. Nothing will bring all the lads who were killed back, and imprisoning the driver for forty years [for example] would not achieve anything. I am sure the families of the deceased have had an opportunity to provide victim impact statements to the court. If all the deceased were life long friends of the driver then the wishes of the families will no doubt have influenced the Judges decision.

There are no winners. I am sure i would be devastated if it was a family member of mine who was killed, but then until i am in that situation i honestly cannot say how i would react or feel about the sentencing. I have seen people who cannot move on and others who can forgive - often against the odds and contrary to how others think they would react. I for one would not like to trade places with this driver even for five minutes during the rest of his life. He will be in his own hell that has no escape route. Thoughts and prayers to all involved in this unbearably tragic incident.

Reati

IP freely wrote: »

Its a shocking case I do think that the broader picture here is 4 of the poor deceased lads families pleaded with the judge to not send him to prison, that speaks volumes in itself.

Speaks volumes about the Irish mentality you mean. Chap kills 8people and everyone is patting him on the back and shedding tears for him. What a load of ****e. Clearly he couldn't care less, less he wouldn't have getting in trouble for speeding (a factor in him killing 8 people) and lying to the Gardai since.

Also, 2years? You'd get ten for no tv license. Typical irish justice.

ectoraige

Reati wrote: »

Also, 2years? You'd get ten for no tv license. Typical irish justice.

Can you cite a case where somebody was imprisoned for a decade for not having aTV licence? I'd very much like to read up on it. Thanks.

Kristopherus

I just wonder why was his plea of guilty to dangerous driving so readily accepted by the DPP. Surely the charge of dangerous driving causing death is/was more appropriate? That would have carried a much heavier sentence. Four years is a joke:(.

IP freely

Reati wrote: »

Speaks volumes about the Irish mentality you mean. Chap kills 8people and everyone is patting him on the back and shedding tears for him. What a load of ****e. Clearly he couldn't care less, less he wouldn't have getting in trouble for speeding (a factor in him killing 8 people) and lying to the Gardai since.

Also, 2years? You'd get ten for no tv license. Typical irish justice.

Not one person is "patting him on the back". Nobody is condoning what has happened. 2 years indeed. You wouldn't get 10 for not paying a tv license. find me a case where anyone has been jailed for a significant length of time for that (its a scare tactic), AFAIK imprisonment is for non payment of court fine is it not?

I do feel it is fair in this case he didn't set out to kill 8 people, it happened as a result of an accident (check the meaning of that word before replying). In essence he was doing the right thing, staying sober and driving everyone. His mistake was clearly driving overloaded and dangerously.

Nekarsulm

Surprised that he wasn't banned from driving for life, to be honest. You cannot bring back the deceased, but you can try and ensure that he is not in a position to cause injury to other road users in the future.

lulu1

kjbsrah1 wrote: »

Nothing can change what has happened. That lad has a life sentence that only he can bear. He will never sleep in peace. His family will never sleep in peace. One of his parents [assuming both parents are alive and he lives at home] will always be checking in on him at night to make sure he is still there. I know of a woman whose son a few years ago was a driver of a car in which two of his friends were killed and to this day she cannot sleep at night as she has to keep checking on him to make sure he is still alive. Nothing will bring all the lads who were killed back, and imprisoning the driver for forty years [for example] would not achieve anything. I am sure the families of the deceased have had an opportunity to provide victim impact statements to the court. If all the deceased were life long friends of the driver then the wishes of the families will no doubt have influenced the Judges decision.

There are no winners. I am sure i would be devastated if it was a family member of mine who was killed, but then until i am in that situation i honestly cannot say how i would react or feel about the sentencing. I have seen people who cannot move on and others who can forgive - often against the odds and contrary to how others think they would react. I for one would not like to trade places with this driver even for five minutes during the rest of his life. He will be in his own hell that has no escape route. Thoughts and prayers to all involved in this unbearably tragic incident.

Hear hear very well said. You asked if his parents were alive the answer is yes and are good decent and respectable people.

Pique

What a pile of rubbish. His parents are nice, so what? Wha has that got to do with the actions of him?

He overloaded his car (NI reg).
He drove like a nut with 8 people on board and clipped a car before crashing into another car, killing that innocent man and his 7 friends.
It has been mentioned that his friends should take some reponsibility as they got in and some of them should have not.
What tosh. They were drinking and were offered a lift. Judgement was impaired and they took the lift.
HE and only HE was responsible. He should not have allowed more than 4 people in that car.
If a passenger doesn't have a seatbelt on, stone cold sober or not, the driver is held accountable.
He was previously done for dangerous driving, so he has history of being a dangerous driver.
He was caught tearing around SINCE this 'accident' (and it was no accident, his actions directly led to the crash in which 8 people died) and gave a false name to the Gardai.
He has maintained his innocence contrary to all the evidence and eyewitnesses for 4-odd years. Not the actions of a remorseful person who killed 7 friends.

So he has to live with it. So what? He doesn't seem to have learned to control his behaviour.

He is being given a pathetic sentence which has ZERO effect on others actions. It shows that whining emotional pleading works, even at the last minute.

There are no winners, true. The families of his victims do not get to see their loved ones again.
He get's tarred rightly as a killer with very little evident remorse.
The legal system allows him to walk and not send a message.
Society get's to have him back out on the roads I drive on in the next year or so, as he won't adhere to any driving ban, I would bet good money.


So to all those who think that "ah the poor fella, let him suffer in peace, hasn't he enough to go through?" I say, "No. He should serve an appropriate sentence for the crime he has perpetrated, taking into account his obvious disregard for the law (and the memories of his friends, seeing as he denied culpability for 4 years) prior to and since the crash."

Pique

IP freely wrote: »

Just picking on on the section in bold here. How could he have admitted to anything when he has absolutely no recollection of the accident itself. That isn't hearsay or word of mouth its from a medical professional appointed to the case. At the end of the day regardless of what the case be it a litter fine of murder charge if you ain't sure yourself what has happened you will ask the lawer and if he / she tells you plead not guilty you plead not guilty.

If you woke up in hospital and were told that you crashed the car and killed 8 people, and all evidence and eyewitnesses conclusively point to your actions as being the cause, what do you do, if you have any moral, or remorse for your actions?

Not remembering the deed doesn't lessen it or excuse your involvement either.

EDIT: If he didn't remember the crash, why did he blame the innocent woman driver? Blame the solicitor for that, I suppose?

2moreMinutes

He wasn't caught speeding since the accident. He was 'observed' driving 'at some speed'. Considering how close the guards were 'observing' him over the last few years, I'm surprised this was as good as they could muster up against him.

And of course it was an accident. Are you really saying he set out to kill these people? Take a deep breath. And relax. Once more, really?

Pique

So many people defending him.
Strange...

<MOD SNIP>
And an accident is something you have no control over. This definitely does not qualify.
Nobody said he set out to kill people, so less of the strawman arguments, please.

2moreMinutes

I'm not defending him. I'm just not out for blood or an eye for an eye type revenge in the same way a lot of others itt are.

If the families of some of the victims requested that he wasn't jailed, why are so many people looking in from the outside getting their panties in such a twist about either the true character of the guy or the leniency of the sentence?

2moreMinutes

Pique wrote: »

So many people defending him.
Strange...

<MOD SNIP>
And an accident is something you have no control over. This definitely does not qualify.
Nobody said he set out to kill people, so less of the strawman arguments, please.

An accident is something that is not intentional. If something is not an accident, it is intentional. I'd try to explain it further to help you understand a little better but it's late and I need to sleep.

fryup

Pique wrote: »

If he didn't remember the crash, why did he blame the innocent woman driver? Blame the solicitor for that, I suppose?

exactly

and if he's got a brain injury surely he should be banned for life from driving..thats what i find galling

Reati

ectoraige wrote: »

Can you cite a case where somebody was imprisoned for a decade for not having aTV licence? I'd very much like to read up on it. Thanks.

It must have went above your head. I should have clearly mark out how it was meant as an exaggeration to show that the Irish justice system is a joke but now that your post has pointed out to me how some people were unable to rationalise that from my post, I'll be sure to attached the obligatory footnotes in future.

opiniated

It seems to me that the bereaved families, as well as Shaun Kellys family, are the surviving victims of this tragedy.

Accordingly, if the bereaved families do not want to see any further punishment, who am I, or any other outsider, to judge?

Note, I don't know any of the families involved personally.
I can be very sure, however, that the families involved know a lot more of the details, pain, and emotions involved than I do.
So, I believe their wishes should be respected.

I hope everyone involved finds closure and healing, and has the best Christmas possible, under the circunstances.

lulu1

Pique wrote: »

What a pile of rubbish. His parents are nice, so what? Wha has that got to do with the actions of him?

He overloaded his car (NI reg).
He drove like a nut with 8 people on board and clipped a car before crashing into another car, killing that innocent man and his 7 friends.
It has been mentioned that his friends should take some reponsibility as they got in and some of them should have not.
What tosh. They were drinking and were offered a lift. Judgement was impaired and they took the lift.
HE and only HE was responsible. He should not have allowed more than 4 people in that car.
If a passenger doesn't have a seatbelt on, stone cold sober or not, the driver is held accountable.
He was previously done for dangerous driving, so he has history of being a dangerous driver.
He was caught tearing around SINCE this 'accident' (and it was no accident, his actions directly led to the crash in which 8 people died) and gave a false name to the Gardai.
He has maintained his innocence contrary to all the evidence and eyewitnesses for 4-odd years. Not the actions of a remorseful person who killed 7 friends.

So he has to live with it. So what? He doesn't seem to have learned to control his behaviour.

He is being given a pathetic sentence which has ZERO effect on others actions. It shows that whining emotional pleading works, even at the last minute.

There are no winners, true. The families of his victims do not get to see their loved ones again.
He get's tarred rightly as a killer with very little evident remorse.
The legal system allows him to walk and not send a message.
Society get's to have him back out on the roads I drive on in the next year or so, as he won't adhere to any driving ban, I would bet good money.


So to all those who think that "ah the poor fella, let him suffer in peace, hasn't he enough to go through?" I say, "No. He should serve an appropriate sentence for the crime he has perpetrated, taking into account his obvious disregard for the law (and the memories of his friends, seeing as he denied culpability for 4 years) prior to and since the crash."

Sentence was passed by the judge who knows the ins and outs of the case. Who are we to sit on boards saying what he should have got. I pray I am never in the position to be in a court room and see my son being led away to jail.If it was your son would you come down so hard on him I dont think so

Pique

lulu1 wrote: »

Sentence was passed by the judge who knows the ins and outs of the case. Who are we to sit on boards saying what he should have got. I pray I am never in the position to be in a court room and see my son being led away to jail.If it was your son would you come down so hard on him I dont think so

More sympathy and defence for someone who killed 8 people and has shown zero remorse and will be free in a year or so.

Amazing.

If it was my son, I would do everything possible to prevent it happening to him (as any parent would), but if it did, I would be distraught. However, at 22 years of age (when it happened) he would have to atone for his own actions, regardless of my feelings on the matter, like we all would.

As for knowing the ins and outs of it, I think anyone with a passing interest in this case is well aware of all the facts. That's what makes the judgement so hard to take.

There's a lot of parochialism evident in cases like this and it appears to be present in this one also. Regardless of who he is, who his parents are or what they're like, or where he's from, what he did deserves a much more punitive sentence.

He will be culpably involved in another tragedy in the next few years, I fear.

lulu1

Pique wrote: »

More sympathy and defence for someone who killed 8 people and has shown zero remorse and will be free in a year or so.

Amazing.

If it was my son, I would do everything possible to prevent it happening to him (as any parent would), but if it did, I would be distraught. However, at 22 years of age (when it happened) he would have to atone for his own actions, regardless of my feelings on the matter, like we all would.

As for knowing the ins and outs of it, I think anyone with a passing interest in this case is well aware of all the facts. That's what makes the judgement so hard to take.

There's a lot of parochialism evident in cases like this and it appears to be present in this one also. Regardless of who he is, who his parents are or what they're like, or where he's from, what he did deserves a much more punitive sentence.

He will be culpably involved in another tragedy in the next few years, I fear.

No I wouldnt call it sympathy but with having young adults myself it must be a nightmare to go through for all involved and this also comes from someone whose own brother and his friend was killed outright by a speeding driver who never spent 1 hour in jail

opiniated

I'm sorry for your loss, Lulu1.

I also lost my nephew. Also killed by a speeding driver.

I also have young sons.

To those who, thankfully, haven't been bereaved in such circumstances, the range of emotions you go through is a lot more complex than you might think!

For me, finding peace was through forgiveness, despite the anger. (Yes, those emotions can exist side by side - like I said, the range of emotions is complex!)
Also, like Lulu1, I thought about how I would feel if my son were the driver.

It's a horrible time for everyone involved, and I don't think thoughtless or insensitive comments online are in any way helpful - quite the reverse, in fact!

Thumpette

Condolences to all here who have lost family members on the roads. I'm sure the time of year as well as cases like this are an all too painful reminder of a tragic waste of life.

I just saw a Facebook post this evening which really struck a chord with me in terms of the deep rooted cultural issue that exists in Donegal around speeding and car culture. My sister's boyfriend posted 2 photos earlier with a group of guys in their early 20s waving down cars at a bridge coming into a Donegal town to warn them about a Garda speed check. I don't think they were doing it just for people they knew or anything- purely as a 'us motorists against the guards' mentality.

My sisters boyfriend was congratulating them on their great services, the fellas doing it tagged themselves
With pride and the post got a load of thanks.

The place the speed trap was is pretty much in the town in a built up area actually where my home place is. There are a load of young kids who play on the road- including my sisters so for me anything that discourages speed on it has to be a good thing- just thought it was so Bizzare for this guy to celebrate people taking deliberate steps to sabotage someone doing their job to keep his kids safe.

Penfailed

The Prosecution Service are appealing the sentence apparently.