West on Chapelizard bypass dangerous?

L'Enfer du Nord

Was cycling to friends house in Lucan today. Normal going out west I would take the canal or strawberry beds was in a bit of a hurry today so decided to take the main road (n4). When I came past Palmers town the was a sign for a shared bus and bike lane. This petered out after about 100 metres up ahead was the turn off for the M50. So basically I'd have to cross this fast moving lane of traffic into an other lane of fast moving traffic without a hard should until I got across the M50. I turned back because I knew there was a dedicated bicycle and pedestrian bridge across the M50 just to the north of this intersection.

My issues are.

Crossing the M50 turn off lane and cycling on the dual carriage way with no hard should both seem dangerous to me (maybe it's not if your are careful).

Why have a sign suggesting this is a suitable/safe place to cycle when a) in my opinion it's not. there's a far safer alternative which isn't sign posted.

tampopo

I dunno, I just cycled up that road and across the M50. It's the same crossing the M50 at the Red Cow too...

eeeee

The N4 is a nasty road to cycle. The bit's where the filter lanes from the M50 out onto the N4 are hideous, when you're cycling long and then you're out in between two fast moving lanes of traffic. It also leaves you out onto motorway after Lucan, it's awkward to not.
I avoid the N4 now and head out of town out the canal, by Crumlin, onto the Ballyfermot road, Ballyowen road and on out that way. It's also a hideously boring road to cycle on (Apart from the traffic. But you know what I mean!).
I hate the n4!

easygoing39

As tampopo says above and I agree 110%.Ive cycled both the n4 lucan rd and the n7 naas rd loads of times and I don't think its that bad.If youre aware of youre surroundings and make positive lane changes its safe.
Maybe youre making a mountain out off a molehill??

HivemindXX

easygoing39 wrote: »

Maybe youre making a mountain out off a molehill??

I disagree. If it is really like the Red Cow junction then I consider it very dangerous. The worse part being after you have crossed the junction and you have a steady stream of cars on both sides of you both doing 80kph+.

nak

I was taken that way on a club spin, never again. Strawberry beds or canal for me. Use the cycle path flyover at Red Cow, as I find cycling in amongst high speed traffic takes most of the enjoyment out of cycling for me. Not shy of traffic, just don't think it's worth the risk sometimes. City traffic is very different as the speeds are much lower.

Never got the attraction of the N11/N81 either when there are much quieter roads to cycle on.

Oink

I dont go past palmerstown on that stretch of road. I turn right into the petrol station, then straight through the village and onto the pedestrian/bike overpass. This part of the N4 between the M50 exit and liffey valley seems like a bad idea on the bike.

L'Enfer du Nord

easygoing39 wrote: »

As tampopo says above and I agree 110%.Ive cycled both the n4 lucan rd and the n7 naas rd loads of times and I don't think its that bad.If youre aware of youre surroundings and make positive lane changes its safe.
Maybe youre making a mountain out off a molehill??

Maybe, I'm open to that suggestion. There's lots of places where I'm used to cycling that others might consider unsafe which I think are fine.

However I just think it's ridiculous that the signage essential directs cyclists on to this stretch when there' say far less nerve wracking alternative available.

I've never crossed the M50 at the Red Cow but in general I think all the national roads out of Dublin are fairly shocking for cyclists with piece meal cycling infrastructure and poor integration. In the case of the N4 it would be really easy to have a well signposted and designed cycle route out of town parra else to the main road between it and the Liffy.

It's not so bad on the way into town.

Lumen

IMO the ultimate measure of a hazardous road is: would I want my kids cycling on it, or to be cycling it myself with a trailer? Or perhaps: would I direct a geriatric foreign touring cyclist on to it?

Just because we can cope with the hazards doesn't make it intrinsically safe, and whilst we can't turn every road into a cycling nirvana it would be nice to have some decent signage to point out the dodgy bits.

monument

I've done the N4 M50 crossing once or twice and it'll be never again for me two.

The cycling bypass of the junction is insanely poorly designed and poorly marked out -- more so for westbound direction. Sadly it will be costly and difficult to retrofit anything decent for both directions.

This issue is common to many of the M50 crossings where these double as motorway junctions. That's what these really are -- motorway junctions, unsuitable for cycling on.

cython

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Maybe, I'm open to that suggestion. There's lots of places where I'm used to cycling that others might consider unsafe which I think are fine.

However I just think it's ridiculous that the signage essential directs cyclists on to this stretch when there' say far less nerve wracking alternative available.

I've never crossed the M50 at the Red Cow but in general I think all the national roads out of Dublin are fairly shocking for cyclists with piece meal cycling infrastructure and poor integration. In the case of the N4 it would be really easy to have a well signposted and designed cycle route out of town parra else to the main road between it and the Liffy.

It's not so bad on the way into town.

I'm not sure that it directs cyclists there so much as there may not be an actual legal sign for a bus lane that does not feature a bike also, as cyclists are entitled to use any bus lanes, including contra-flow. There may not actually be a legal signage to discourage cyclists from using that option.

Mycroft H

Did it once, never again! Either through ballyfermot or the strawberry beds!

SuperSean

I do it every week on my way to club spins. Its terrible!
Its ok on a Sat morning with no traffic but generally speaking its an accident waiting to happen.

At least when you go this way it eventually turns back into Bus/Cycle lane, you should try the other way towards town.
That's an absolute nightmare!!!
Done it once and now I go over the bridge that's there

Buchaill_Mor

Did it once, and never again also. I use either the Canal, come through Ballyfermot, which is fun in itself. The last couple of times I went up the Nangor Road, and down the N7/N4 link road. Worst bit of that was crossing the N7 from Longmile Road. But nothing as scary as the N4/M50 junction.

Greenmachine

Would hate to be a cyclist on that road. The stretch of road is a bitch even for a driver at the m50 overpass. Serious amount of cars jamming on regardless of the traffic conditions ahead after the dip.

bogmanfan

I commute from Lucan into town and never use that route. Just far too dangerous, especially after the dip when you have the traffic merging from the M50 on your left. Strawberry Beds all the way for me.

gerrowadat

Same, I drive the route most days, even on the motorbike it can get a bit ropey, I wouldn't touch it on the cycley bike. Strawberry beds all the way, or even the canal path from inchicore to hazelhatch.

galwaycyclist

cython wrote: »

I'm not sure that it directs cyclists there so much as there may not be an actual legal sign for a bus lane that does not feature a bike also, as cyclists are entitled to use any bus lanes, including contra-flow. There may not actually be a legal signage to discourage cyclists from using that option.

This. All bus lane signs are supposed to include a bicycle or were the last time I checked.

So the sign is just telling you that there is a bus lane - nothing more.

All non-motorways roads are open to cyclists. Therefore the presence of cyclists should be anticipated on all roads other than motorways.

ROK ON

^

The presence of cyclists bit applies to all roads. I don't think that is the issue.
This road in particular has several poorly designed junctions where the speed limit is simply not obeyed by the average car.
When in the bus lane you have to merge right to go straight ahead while cars are merging left to pick up speed to hit the M50. It is as bad for motorists.
I don't cycle homestead way because despite me being entitled to use it I'd rather not and have the peace of mind of a small diversion in a side road.

The only junctions like this that I have seen that I would take are traffic light controlled ones.

Simply too unnerving and life is too short as it is to be using this junction.

galwaycyclist

ROK ON wrote: »

^

The presence of cyclists bit applies to all roads. I don't think that is the issue.
This road in particular has several poorly designed junctions where the speed limit is simply not obeyed by the average car.
When in the bus lane you have to merge right to go straight ahead while cars are merging left to pick up speed to hit the M50. It is as bad for motorists.
I don't cycle homestead way because despite me being entitled to use it I'd rather not and have the peace of mind of a small diversion in a side road.

The only junctions like this that I have seen that I would take are traffic light controlled ones.

Simply too unnerving and life is too short as it is to be using this junction.

Understood.

This remark

Therefore the presence of cyclists should be anticipated on all roads other than motorways.

Was meant in response to what I saw as a suggestion that maybe there should be signs advising cyclists not to use a particular route, or that a particular route is not suitable for cycling.

The problem with this is that there will be a spectrum of opinion about what is a suitable route and what isnt. You have a identified a route that matches your abilities but which other cyclists might also find challenging - how do we distinguish?

And always the elephant in the room - who would be putting up these signs?

It would be Irish road engineers - some of whom would be of the opinion that cyclists should not be using main roads. Some of whom would be of the opinion that cyclists should dismount and walk at junctions. Some of whom think that cyclists should be confined to designated routes through recreational corridors and parks.

Carawaystick

This thread isn't really about the Chapelizod bypass.
It's about the road from the end of the Chapelizod bypass to the N4, i.e. the crossing of the M50

The Chapelizod bypass is fine to cycle on. Just stay in the middle of the bus lane to prevent taxis and busses trying to squeeze past.

L'Enfer du Nord

Carawaystick wrote: »

This thread isn't really about the Chapelizod bypass.
It's about the road from the end of the Chapelizod bypass to the N4, i.e. the crossing of the M50

The Chapelizod bypass is fine to cycle on. Just stay in the middle of the bus lane to prevent taxis and busses trying to squeeze past.

Just going on what google maps calls it. Missleading as it is it's better than 'West bound on R148'.



bypass.jpg

hmmm

From my view on the bus I see the occasional cyclist on that road, mother of god, it is frightening to watch. Traffic is going way too fast and there are cars merging and veering all over the place. I rarely see the same cyclist twice for good reason.

What harm there's a purpose built bridge off to the North (from the old lucan road) which is for cyclists & pedestrians which needs to be better advertised/signposted.

rp

hmmm wrote: »

I rarely see the same cyclist twice for good reason.

Why? Are they all dead? I've been riding that way for years, and often meet the same cyclists, all still very much alive and still putting up a good fight.

tampopo

I find coming back in to town much nicer, what with having the hill behind you.

I'd go via the Old Lucan road if I was going to the Old Lucan road, but I'm not. So I take the most direct route.

hmmm

rp wrote: »

Why? Are they all dead? I've been riding that way for years, and often meet the same cyclists, all still very much alive and still putting up a good fight.

Good for you, we're all entitled to our opinion.