Law Graduate - How to find a job?

GlobalSun

I recently graduated with a 2.1 BCL/Maîtrise degree from UCD-Paris II and due to personal circumstances I wasn't able to enroll in an LL.M program this year. I decided to put graduate school on hold until next year.

I have been looking for a job but I haven't found anything.

I would really appreciate getting some tips to make my search more efficient.

Thank you very much

phater phagan

800 a month in Greece - I'd jump at it. Negotiate with them to pay some of your rent too. Think of the weather - and Go for it - it will look good on your CV.

GlobalSun

phater phagan wrote: »

800 a month in Greece - I'd jump at it. Negotiate with them to pay some of your rent too. Think of the weather - and Go for it - it will look good on your CV.

It's below the minimum wage in both France and Ireland. I won't accept a job below minimum wage, no matter where it is. I'd earn double working as a cashier or a waitress in France (which is obviously not an option). Plus, I highly doubt it would add much value to my resume, frankly.

phater phagan

France and Ireland are much more expensive countries to live in than Greece. When an old famous actor in America was asked for advice on his success and longevity in his field he said. " just work - take it whatever it is - just work". I hope that you find what you're looking for.

yosser hughes

phater phagan wrote: »

France and Ireland are much more expensive countries to live in than Greece. When an old famous actor in America was asked for advice on his success and longevity in his field he said. " just work - take it whatever it is - just work". I hope that you find what you're looking for.

I'd agree with that. Just work. Take what you can, and the opportunities will come. Having a work ethic is invaluable.

Tarzana2

GlobalSun wrote: »

It's below the minimum wage in both France and Ireland.

How is that relevant? Different countries, different living costs.

bigneacy

It seems like you might need to lower your expectations a little. I work in call centre customer service. I'm surrounded by people with degrees. I sit 5 foot away from a fully qualified teacher.
It's not like you're leaving a job to go into these other positions, so what have you got to lose?

GlobalSun

Tarzana2 wrote: »

How is that relevant? Different countries, different living costs.

As a matter of fact, it is relevant. I don't want to relocate to get paid a lower salary than I would working a random job at home. It makes perfect sense to me. I'd rather earn 1300E a month as a sales associate at a department store in France than earn 800 for a job in the same industry in Greece. The living costs might be higher in France but it heavily depends on your location.

The question is: Is it worth relocating? Not, is it worth taking the job. If the same job was offered at home, I would have accepted. It's not about the job position in itself but the relocation aspect of it A job is a job after all.

Besides, this thread is not about a potential job offer in Greece. I'm asking for tips as to where I should look for jobs.

paulheu

For one, you need to adjust your attitude, the "I'm too good for this" attitude will come across during interviews.

€800 in Greece is about equal to double that over here, cost of living is way lower. As someone with a degree you seem to have a very narrow and limited view of the world around you and not much in the general knowledge department it seems. Again, something that will come across in an interview.

How many job applications have you filled out? What is it you do want to do and what do you expect to get paid doing it? How's your CV ? has it been checked by someone who knows how to write a decent one? how many pages s it?

Frankly you come across as someone who just came out of school expecting the jobs to roll in.. Not going to happen and it seems your 'friends' have snatched the few that might have. Again, tone down the attitude to start with and who knows, things may fall into place..

GlobalSun

I never said I was "too good" for this sort of job. I said that I thought that a law degree would at least get me a position in a field other than sales. I never said I expected a high powered position, of course not.

Furthermore, I have general knowledge, thank you very much. As I said before, the relocation part is the issue, not the job. Maybe if you had spent 30s reading my previous post, you would have understood that.

Finally, I don't expect jobs to "roll in". Whoever believes that is delusional. I'm very much aware of the job market crisis. I just expected to find graduate jobs in a field other than sales. That's the point of my question. At this point, I wouldn't come on here asking for advice if I hadn't applied to every sort of job possible.

As for the technical questions, I have met up with a couple of "recruitment" professionals/college advisors who gave me some advice regarding my CV and other practical matters (such as interviews ...). Last but not least, I, myself, applied for a lot of "Customer Service Representative" in Ireland/France. I wouldn't have applied if I thought I was "better than that".

I'm also applying to both unpaid and paid internships to gain some experience despite having done a bunch of those already. I don't have a superiority complex to believe that certain office jobs are degrading/below me. Heck, I even applied for a couple of receptionist positions. This should give you a broad idea of what my perspective is regarding the so-called "too good for this" vibe you got.

Finally, I came on here to ask for advice regarding how to proceed to find more job openings to apply to. So far, I haven't gotten a single post regarding the initial question. You people keep rambling on a non-issue.

cloudatlas

GlobalSun wrote: »

I never said I was "too good" for this sort of job. I said that I thought that a law degree would at least get me a position in a field other than sales. I never said I expected a high powered position, of course not.

Furthermore, I have general knowledge, thank you very much. As I said before, the relocation part is the issue, not the job. Maybe if you had spent 30s reading my previous post, you would have understood that.

Finally, I don't expect jobs to "roll in". Whoever believes that is delusional. I'm very much aware of the job market crisis. I just expected to find graduate jobs in a field other than sales. That's the point of my question. At this point, I wouldn't come on here asking for advice if I hadn't applied to every sort of job possible.

As for the technical questions, I have met up with a couple of "recruitment" professionals/college advisors who gave me some advice regarding my CV and other practical matters (such as interviews ...). Last but not least, I, myself, applied for a lot of "Customer Service Representative" in Ireland/France. I wouldn't have applied if I thought I was "better than that".

I'm also applying to both unpaid and paid internships to gain some experience despite having done a bunch of those already. I don't have a superiority complex to believe that certain office jobs are degrading/below me. Heck, I even applied for a couple of receptionist positions. This should give you a broad idea of what my perspective is regarding the so-called "too good for this" vibe you got.

Finally, I came on here to ask for advice regarding how to proceed to find more job openings to apply to. So far, I haven't gotten a single post regarding the initial question. You people keep rambling on a non-issue.

I understand you are bitter and frustrated but lashing out at people who are trying to help you without knowing you or having any added incentive is just plain rude. You said working below the Irish minimum wage mark was a problem and that you'd rather work as a waiter in France well which would be better for your c.v.? Perhaps you are the one who's talking rubbish? That salary in Greece is a very good salary in relation to the cost of living in that country. Many law firms in their career sections state that they are interested in being contacted about internships, if you aren't willing to do the leg work and then some, then forget it. At the end of the day you should do what's best for your c.v., if you aren't in a position to do an internship then a living wage is not to be sniffed at in this economy.

j80ezgvc3p92xu

Hi GlobalSun, was in exactly your position this year. I was going to graduate with a BCL from UCD but had absolutely no idea of what to do with myself. In my case I felt I needed to do the LLM as my grades weren't too high and I just needed to think about my options. Taken a giant loan to finance it as I wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise.

Anyhow, I think your degree would be perfectly suited to working as a paralegal or in a bank. Check out the law society website for potential paralegal jobs as they do pop up there from time to time. You could also try finding some work through an agency, although that is usually for only a few months. I think the EU is currently recruiting for Staigiare positions, but the deadline would be approaching soon. Your French would definitely be a plus. Giving French grinds could definitely make you a few bob on the side as well.

I would be careful about working in France as their wages are generally quite lower than here, so you would have the same problem as with Greece. I have French cousins and I remember that they are constantly complaining about their pay.

Hope your search goes well, it is a shame that there isn't much jobs for us law graduates out there. If you would like more information you can drop me a PM.

Tarzana2

GlobalSun wrote: »

As a matter of fact, it is relevant. I don't want to relocate to get paid a lower salary than I would working a random job at home.

So then don't.

It doesn't change the fact that €800 per month would go much farther in Greece than France/Ireland.

There is a bit of an attitude and sense of entitlement coming across in your posts and it would be very off-putting to potential employers if it also came across in an interviews. People need to pay their dues, having a degree alone doesn't guarantee a high paying job.

GlobalSun

Tarzana2 wrote: »

So then don't.

People need to pay their dues, having a degree alone doesn't guarantee a high paying job.

I know

hfallada

OP degree is French law based. If he/she was working in France, they could improve their French. Improving their language skills. Something that will as value to their CV. Where as Greece will be of little or no benefit to OP. They might as well get a job in Dublin in retail. If they want to take a job for the sake of having a Job.

But op goal is something law related. At least by going to France they still improve their language skills. Greece will add no benefit to their CV versus a job in Dublin

MarkAnthony

You're straight out of college with an arts degree and maybe some passing French. What did you expect? A 25K call centre job is where you're going to be aiming I'm afraid.

You could look at graduate training programmes but if you want to pursue a legal career there isn't much point.

Best of luck but if you weren't warned that doing a law degree was a short route to sweet FA you've been done a disservice.

GlobalSun

MarkAnthony wrote: »

You're straight out of college with an arts degree and maybe some passing French. What did you expect? A 25K call centre job is where you're going to be aiming I'm afraid.

You could look at graduate training programmes but if you want to pursue a legal career there isn't much point.

Best of luck but if you weren't warned that doing a law degree was a short route to sweet FA you've been done a disservice.

I'm French. My French isn't passing. I'm pretty sure a BA is different from a BCL by anyway.

I wasn't expecting a high salary job, just a graduate level (scheme) job. I'll be sitting the bar exam next year but I thought that I could get some experience in the mean time. I'm not expecting things to be served on a silver platter.

However, I was asking for tips to make my job search more efficient. Ya'll don't have to be so rude. Just because you've got a high salary job due to your experience and degrees, doesn't mean you have to be condescending to those who are just getting started.

MarkAnthony

GlobalSun wrote: »

I'm French. My French isn't passing. I'm pretty sure a BA is different from a BCL by anyway.

I wasn't expecting a high salary job, just a graduate level (scheme) job. I'll be sitting the bar exam next year but I thought that I could get some experience in the mean time. I still have the bar exam and graduate school to pass, so no, I'm not expecting things to be served on a silver platter.

However, I was asking for tips to make my job search more efficient. Ya'll don't have to be so rude. Just because you've got a high salary job due to your experience and degrees, doesn't mean you have to be condescending to those who are just getting started.

I'm an undergrad law student working in a call centre, albeit after a career change.

What are you talking about Bar exam and graduate school? We have two routes into the legal profession here; FE-1s followed by PPC or the Kings Inns.

I assume you mean you're going to be perusing a legal career in France. If so I would suggest looking for paralegal employment in France. Here law grads spend many years earning very poor salaries unless they are lucky enough to find employment with a top 5.

Strongbow10

GlobalSun wrote: »

I'm French. My French isn't passing. I'm pretty sure a BA is different from a BCL by anyway.

I wasn't expecting a high salary job, just a graduate level (scheme) job. I'll be sitting the bar exam next year but I thought that I could get some experience in the mean time. I still have the bar exam and graduate school to pass, so no, I'm not expecting things to be served on a silver platter.

However, I was asking for tips to make my job search more efficient. Ya'll don't have to be so rude. Just because you've got a high salary job due to your experience and degrees, doesn't mean you have to be condescending to those who are just getting started.

If you are passionate about a career in law and see this as your life's work then pursue it.

You mention you are eager to attain relevant experience before starting a masters? You have 2 options- find a job, any job that's pays if u need the finances for further study.

If you just wish to get legal experience then I'd advise you to seek professional legal unpaid roles. Obviously this will involve some ground work yourself identifying where you would specifically like to work and then make a direct application to them seeking unpaid experience.

It's how I got on my feet in this sector, and for what it's worth, don't compare yourself to what your mates are doing. It won't just fall on your lap you have got to get out there and take it .

I know plenty of law graduates who are unemployed/working in others areas with no prospect of ever going back down the legal professional route.

The most passionate and successful ones recognised that supply exceeded demand in this sector and worked for free when they genuinely wanted to accrue experience.

It's experience you can take elsewhere or else u may impress sufficiently to be kept on.

Tarzana2

GlobalSun wrote: »

Just because you've got a high salary job due to your experience and degrees, doesn't mean you have to be condescending to those who are just getting started.

Actually, I changed career direction this year. I earn €20k per annum and live in Dublin. I'm 30. Things are tight financially for me at the moment but I just understand that I have to take a hit to make this change especially as I have no specific qualifications in my new field.

GlobalSun

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I'm an undergrad law student working in a call centre, albeit after a career change.

What are you talking about Bar exam and graduate school? We have two routes into the legal profession here; FE-1s followed by PPC or the Kings Inns.

I assume you mean you're going to be perusing a legal career in France. If so I would suggest looking for paralegal employment in France. Here law grads spend many years earning very poor salaries unless they are lucky enough to find employment with a top 5.

I never said I specifically wanted to be a barrister/solicitor. After 4 years, I know there are only two routes to get such positions. However, getting an LL.M first would probably help me get further expertise in the legal field even if I don't end up working as a barrister/solicitor.

I wasn't talking about the Irish Bar though.

MarkAnthony

GlobalSun wrote: »

I wasn't talking about the Irish Bar though.

I think you need to sit down and map out what you want to do. While I'm sure what you're doing makes some sense in relation to a career in France it's not making much sense in relation to making a career for yourself in Ireland.

The LLM is going to be of very little use if you go down the barrister route here. Unless you're intending to do the BL and then do something else; which seems very convoluted.

If you're looking to make a career for yourself in France then I'd suggest doing that. I'm not sure how you can make your job search more efficient in Ireland when you've done a degree with no relevance to any career path here, other than two you're clearly no going down.

Strongbow10

GlobalSun wrote: »

I never said I specifically wanted to be a barrister/solicitor. After 4 years, I know there are only two routes to get such positions. However, getting an LL.M first would probably help me get further expertise in the legal field even if I don't end up working as a barrister/solicitor.

I wasn't talking about the Irish Bar though.

What is it you wish to work at in the legal field if it's not being a Barrister/Solicitor?

MarkAnthony

Strongbow10 wrote: »

What is it you wish to work at in the legal field if it's not being a Barrister/Solicitor?

Unless he's thinking of doing one of the US bars?

He's going to be bitterly disappointed with that route if he's an Irish Law degree unless the situation has changed drastically over there in the last couple of years.

LLM would allow a qualification in Canada - excellent to have French already covered off, but again then I don;t get what sort of job the OP is looking for here. You're looking at a temp job in a call centre, maybe doing Admin somewhere or working in a shop.

GlobalSun

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Unless he's thinking of doing one of the US bars?

He's going to be bitterly disappointed with that route if he's an Irish Law degree unless the situation has changed drastically over there in the last couple of years.

LLM would allow a qualification in Canada - excellent to have French already covered off, but again then I don;t get what sort of job the OP is looking for here. You're looking at a temp job in a call centre, maybe doing Admin somewhere or working in a shop.

That's why I mentionned graduate school/LL.M. I would be going to graduate school first and then sit the Bar Exam in the country I will be doing my graduate studies in. It makes perfect sense to me. I don't understand how it doesn't make any sense to you. It probably sounded a little unclear in my previous posts.

No reasonable foreign graduate would risk sitting the US Bar Exam without a knowledge of US Law beforehand. Some goes for the Canadian Bar (which requires a Canadian degree unlike the US) which I am aiming.

In the meantime, I am looking for some experience. I'm looking for a temporary job, not a career job. Preferrably in an industry that would add value to my resume in light of a legal career.

MarkAnthony

Realistically you're looking for experience in the Irish legal sector - paid employment there is going to be difficult to find. You might get a paralegal position; leverage your college network.

Otherwise OP I highly recommend call centre work, you might find something that requires French which would limit the competition for the job. There are quite a few positions in central Dublin. The right firm might also allow you to undertake work in their legal department on an intern basis.

Best of luck with it. Try a few recruitment agencies and keep on the various jobs websites.

braddun

start your own practice

endacl

braddun wrote: »

start your own practice

Legal practice? Because they can't before they're qualified. Legally or ethically.

Jim2007

GlobalSun wrote: »

It's below the minimum wage in both France and Ireland. I won't accept a job below minimum wage, no matter where it is. I'd earn double working as a cashier or a waitress in France (which is obviously not an option). Plus, I highly doubt it would add much value to my resume, frankly.

Well the minus wage in Switzerland is zero, so it is much better than that, so you'd better take it :roll eyes:

It does not matter what the wages are in Ireland or France... if the job is in Greece... If it is enough to get by on, then go have an adventure it is only temporary anyway.

Jim2007

GlobalSun wrote: »

I said that I thought that a law degree would at least get me a position in a field other than sales.

Well outside the law profession, law degrees are not very marketable... they are very specialised right from the get go, so you are either looking for someone with an know of say Irish law or you're not!

An alternative might be to look at some of the graduate programs offered by European MNCs. On most of these programs they are just looking for smart people and are not too concerned about the degree you have.

phater phagan

Many professionals in fields outside of the law have taken the LL.M - to gain expertise in tax law or international law. They feel that it enhances their skills for whatever their type of business is. It can make a candidate more desirable for the position, and give them an advantage over others. My friend's daughter took it and is now with a very large, wealthy organisation on the European mainland.

MarkAnthony

phater phagan wrote: »

Many professionals in fields outside of the law have taken the LL.M - to gain expertise in tax law or international law. They feel that it enhances their skills for whatever their type of business is. It can make a candidate more desirable for the position, and give them an advantage over others. My friend's daughter took it and is now with a very large, wealthy organisation on the European mainland.

I think the poster above was referring to an undergrad Law degree which is a blessing and a curse. It's a curse in that you might as well have done Art History (as some friends of mine did and found good jobs) for all it's practical use. It's a blessing in that its probably one of the most general degrees out there with any transferable skills, but there is always additional study required.

LL.Ms don't require an undergrad law degree either, many non law grads do them.

phater phagan

Thanks Mark Anthony. I realise the wording of my first sentence might imply unlawful activity. Ha ha. I wrote it after just arriving home from a very difficult work day. All the best to Global Sun I hope she's successful in her career - whatever it is. I'm off this thread now.

MarkAnthony

phater phagan wrote: »

Thanks Mark Anthony. I realise the wording of my first sentence might imply unlawful activity. Ha ha. I wrote it after just arriving home from a very difficult work day. All the best to Global Sun I hope she's successful in her career - whatever it is. I'm off this thread now.

Sorry wasn't meaning to sound like I was having a go.

phater phagan

Don't worry I knew that and didn't take offence. I thought it was quite funny actually.