Réamhainmneacha Gaeilge

gaiscioch

What is your favourite Irish forename, and what is the history behind it and the correct Modern Irish spelling?

gaiscioch

Does anybody know the correct spelling of Caoimhe? I'm looking through Donnchadh Ó Corráin's Irish Names but I can't find it under that spelling. It's not an invention of recent vintage like Fiona (invented by William Sharp, 1855-1905, and distinct from Fíona which is an old Irish name), is it?

Also, what is the correct Modern Irish spelling of Aoibhinn? I've seen it as both Aoibheann and Aoibhinn. It is a "real" name. Ó Corráin's entry:
Aíbinn, Oébfinn, Aébfhinn: Aoibhinn (i-vin') f, 'beautiful, sheen, fair radiance'. This name could be anglicised Eavan. It was borne by the mother of St Énna of Aran and by a number of princesses including the daughter of Donnchad, royal princess of Tara, who died in 952.

Peg Coghlan's entry: Aoibheann [Also Aoibhinn] The word means 'blissful' and only recently regained an early popularity. It is anglicised as Eavan.

Any clarification on both names would be appreciated.

gaiscioch

Is there any dialect of Irish where Aoibhinn is pronounced Aveen? I suspect from the Aoi in Aoife that Eveen is nearer to the correct pronunciation for the spelling Aoibhinn, despite the people who pronounce it Aveen. Also, go haoibhinn, Is aoibhinn liom & rl.

However, I've just spoken with a native speaker in Corca Dhuibhne and she said a local woman gave her child a name pronounced Aveen, but she was unsure how she spelt it. Is there another Irish spelling for that sound? Grma.

AnLonDubh

gaiscioch wrote: »

It's not an invention of recent vintage like Fiona (invented by William Sharp, 1855-1905, and distinct from Fíona which is an old Irish name), is it?

I think it (i.e. Caoimhe) is a modern invention, although native speakers use it. I've never seen it in a publication or manuscript prior to 1940. (I make notes of names in Gaeltacht novels. It is interesting what names do not appear and there are several which do that nobody uses these days.)

Also, what is the correct Modern Irish spelling of Aoibhinn? I've seen it as both Aoibheann and Aoibhinn. It is a "real" name.

It did exist as an extremely old name in late Primitive Irish and early Old Irish. However it did not survive to the modern day and hence has no "natural" dialectal pronunciation. It is a revived name similar to Medhbh, Aoife, e.t.c. Going by the spelling Aoibheann and Aoibhinn would produce very different pronunciations in Cork Irish, but be very similar in Kerry Irish, for example. However native speakers actually say Aoibhín in my experience (not Íbhín).

AnLonDubh

gaiscioch wrote: »

However, I've just spoken with a native speaker in Corca Dhuibhne and she said a local woman gave her child a name pronounced Aveen, but she was unsure how she spelt it. Is there another Irish spelling for that sound? Grma.

Probably Aibhín, a popular name in Ireland before the 20th century.

gaiscioch

AnLonDubh wrote: »

I think it (i.e. Caoimhe) is a modern invention, although native speakers use it. I've never seen it in a publication or manuscript prior to 1940. (I make notes of names in Gaeltacht novels. It is interesting what names do not appear and there are several which do that nobody uses these days.)

It did exist as an extremely old name in late Primitive Irish and early Old Irish. However it did not survive to the modern day and hence has no "natural" dialectal pronunciation. It is a revived name similar to Medhbh, Aoife, e.t.c.

I was suspecting as much as the sole historic reference I could find was to Caoimhe of Cill Caoimhe. For Caomh as a historical root in girls' names, Ó Corráin has Caoimhseach, 'beautiful, beloved girl', Caomhóg, 'beautiful, beloved girl' , Caomhnad, 'a beautiful girl', Caomhlú, beautiful, beloved and the God Lug, Caoimhinn, 'beautiful and fair'. Caomh in itself means 'precious, beloved, beautiful' and is of course the root of male names as well as female ones.

AnLonDubh wrote: »

Going by the spelling Aoibheann and Aoibhinn would produce very different pronunciations in Cork Irish, but be very similar in Kerry Irish, for example. However native speakers actually say Aoibhín in my experience (not Íbhín).

Just getting clarification here; in Kerry do they pronounce the Aoibh like "Aiv" rather than Eev? (Do they pronounce Aoife similarly?) I know in Ard na Caithne they certainly pronounce 'go haoibhinn' with the eev sound. Moreover, I would much, much prefer the spelling Aibhín for Aiveen, as the alternative spelling which I've been given (by a native speaking academic) for the Ayeveen/Aiveen sound is Éimhín; your suggestion was not mentioned. I just wouldn't want to get this wrong.

AnLonDubh wrote: »

Probably Aibhín, a popular name in Ireland before the 20th century.

I'd be very interested in more on this as Ó Corráin is drawing a blank under the Aibhín spelling (although there is a Séamus Heaney poem called "A Kite for Aibhín" in honour of his granddaughter which that site says is pronounced aye-veen, the pronunciation which I'm seeking).

AnLonDubh

gaiscioch wrote: »

Just getting clarification here; in Kerry do they pronounce the Aoibh like "Aiv" rather than Eev?

Aoi is pronounced exactly like Í, except for the Sandhi effects, i.e. I use Aoi for the same reason people don't use Aspag for a bishop, but Easpag instead.

Moreover, I would much, much prefer the spelling Aibhín for Aiveen, as the alternative spelling which I've been given (by a native speaking academic) for the Ayeveen/Aiveen sound is Éimhín; your suggestion was not mentioned. I just wouldn't want to get this wrong.

When I asked native speakers to say the name written Aoibheann, they said Aoibhín. Unfortunately this is unnatural. The name died out, so they are just going by the written form, and maybe knowing it as a modern name. Your friend undoubtedly knows the surviving name that Aoibheann evolved into, in its modern form, I'd trust the native speaking academic.

The problem is Aoibheann seems to be gone, except in resurrected forms. Aibhín and Éibhín could be two other names separate from each other and Aoibheann.

I'll post again when I know more.

gaiscioch

AnLonDubh wrote: »

Aibhín and Éibhín could be two other names separate from each other and Aoibheann.

I'll post again when I know more.

Excellent, helpful response. I suppose it now comes down to whether Aibhín would work linguistically in terms of the Aiveen pronunciation. I know it satisfies the 'caol le caol' rule but I'm uncertain about the rest and whether it would amount to a semi-anglicisation. Heaney, at any rate, does seem to pronounce Aibhín as Aiveen in his reading of his (quite felicitous) poem A Kite for Aibhín.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJsqd7tHMgU

AnLonDubh

Just to follow up for anybody reading, regarding the Sandhi stuff.

The reason Easpag is spelt as such and not Aspag is to signal that the preceding consonant will be slender, so in

An t-Easpag

The n and t are slender.

Similarly Aoi is pronounced as Í in many dialects, but indicates the preceding consonant is broad:

M'Aoife féin = My own Aoife

The M would be broad, not slender.

Ao (without the i) arose as a seperate way to spell é when the surrounding consonants are broad.

Ae however was originally a vowel which no longer exists. Today it is just an alternate form of Ao.

gaiscioch

AnLonDubh wrote: »

Probably Aibhín, a popular name in Ireland before the 20th century.

Getting back to this point, and taking into account the earlier mentioned Sandhi effect, could it be possible that the Aibh in Aibhín is pronounced differently to the aibh in aibhléis, which my (non-academic) Corca Dhuibhne source pronounces more like 'eye'. If that aibh is pronounced similarly Aibhín might be something like Eyeeen rather than Aiveen. Unfortunately Foclóir.ie's pronunciation section doesn't have any aibh samples from the three dialects.

gaiscioch

gaiscioch wrote: »

Getting back to this point, and taking into account the earlier mentioned Sandhi effect, could it be possible that the Aibh in Aibhín is pronounced differently to the aibh in aibhléis, which my (non-academic) Corca Dhuibhne source pronounces more like 'eye'. If that aibh is pronounced similarly Aibhín might be something like Eyeeen rather than Aiveen. Unfortunately Foclóir.ie's pronunciation section doesn't have any aibh samples from the three dialects.

On the other hand Gormlaith on Adhmhaidin a few moments ago definitely pronounced the aibh in raibh as a v sound...