what age did you stop sterilising

Suucee

Following on from the other thread regarding bottles im just curious as to when everyone stopped sterilising.
My guy is 8 months and we stopped about a month ago. We put the bottles in the dishwasher and in fairness that does get pretty hot.
my thinking was as hes down on the floor licking it or chewing everything in sight what was the point.
We put the soothers in a tub and when they are all in it we give them a good scrubbing and stick them in a cup of boiling water then put them in a new tub.
So what age were yours?

seventeen sheep

Our son is eleven months old.

He started creche just before he was six months old, so I started doubting myself then - why was I putting on the steriliser every night, when he was spending his days in a very unsterilised environment.

I also questioned the fact that most countries recommend sterilising between 3-6 months - our babies are no different than those in other countries, surely? So why sterilise until twelve months.


Our boy started crawling relatively early, so I guess that decided it for us. I know that some babies put everything they find into their mouths - he's not like that, he's a bit cautious - but at the same time, he's crawling everywhere, he's exposed to everything, so it seems pointless sterilising his bottles anymore.

We only stopped sterilising a couple of weeks ago, but I think on our next child, we'd probably stop by around the six month mark.

We put all of his soothers in a bowl of boiling water every day or two. Oh and we don't have a dishwasher, so the bottles are washed in lukewarm water with a bit of washing up liquid.

Shiraz 4.99

Yep, the 12 months is a nonsense, once they are crawling it makes zero sense.

foodaholic

I think I stopped at about 7 months when the world and it's dog was going into her mouth !!

Mrs Fox

About 5-6 months on both kids. I just figured the longer I leave it the less immuned they are.

moving_home

I'm pregnant on my first so I could be wrong but my understanding was the sterilising for bottles was because the formula isn't sterile. The bacteria in milk could be dangerous so the guidelines are really to keep sterilising bottles until the baby is on normal cows milk.

contrary_mary

If you're making up bottles of formula and keeping them in the fridge then there is a point in sterilising as the milk is a nice medium for bacteria to grow (and even with sterilising there will be some bacteria introduced through the formula, handling, environment etc). So if for example there were a couple of food poisoning bugs in the bottle and you introduced milk and stored it for 24 hours they could multiply enough to make baby ill. As I make batches of formula and store in the fridge I'll be keeping it up until he's onto cows milk which I can pour straight into a clean bottle and give to him. I only sterilise once a day so it's no real hindrance.

How Strange

5/6 months on both although I probably did a lot less sterilising in general with my second baby. I know her soother got a lot of mammy licks. We only had a microwave steriliser so sometimes it was easier to pop the soothers in a cup of boiling water which probably isn't sterilising properly.

Anyway, my guide was when you see them licking the floor, shoes, keys etc you can stop sterilising!

Millem

I am still sterilising and will do until he is 1 in January. I make up the bottles one at a time and always have done. I am sterilising because of the formula not being sterile. I don't want to put my bottles in the dishwasher because they can get stained and cloudy!

Ocean Blue

Millem wrote: »

I am still sterilising and will do until he is 1 in January. I make up the bottles one at a time and always have done. I am sterilising because of the formula not being sterile. I don't want to put my bottles in the dishwasher because they can get stained and cloudy!

Maybe I'm thick but how does the sterility of the bottle/teat affect the milk?? If you are making up the bottles one at a time as directed by manufacturers then the 70 degree water is meant to be sterilising the powder. The bottle doesn't do this. I understand the benefit of the bottle/teat being sterile in its own right, but I've never understood the reasoning that it should be done because of the milk. Am I overlooking something?

seventeen sheep

Ocean Blue wrote: »

Maybe I'm thick but how does the sterility of the bottle/teat affect the milk?? If you are making up the bottles one at a time as directed by manufacturers then the 70 degree water is meant to be sterilising the powder. The bottle doesn't do this. I understand the benefit of the bottle/teat being sterile in its own right, but I've never understood the reasoning that it should be done because of the milk. Am I overlooking something?

My thoughts exactly! The bottle doesn't sterilise the powder, the hot water does.

Roesy

We stayed doing it until she was one. We talked about stopping sooner but never bothered. We used wash the bottles in batches and the steriliser was next to the sink. Didn't take much to just pop it on. We were a little more cautious too due to the fact that her formula was anti reflux and therefore made with cooler water too.

Sligo1

I don't really have a clue about this one but my thoughts are as follows...

We will keep sterilising because... We make up our bottles the night before and keep for 24 hours. Although it's the water at 70 degrees that sterilises the milk powder, there will still be bacteria on the washed bottles if not sterilised. If we were making up bottles as we go it wouldn't really be an issue. However because we make them and keep in fridge for 24 hours the milk is the perfect medium for bacteria to grow. Therefore, as contrary Mary said in a previous post... If the bottles have not been sterilised, the bacteria that would be present in small amounts on the bottles would multiply in the made up milk over the 24 hours it is being stored and potentially be present in much larger amounts than when the bottles of milk were initially made.

That's my thinking anyways...

seventeen sheep

Sligo1 wrote: »

I don't really have a clue about this one but my thoughts are as follows...

We will keep sterilising because... We make up our bottles the night before and keep for 24 hours. Although it's the water at 70 degrees that sterilises the milk powder, there will still be bacteria on the washed bottles if not sterilised. If we were making up bottles as we go it wouldn't really be an issue. However because we make them and keep in fridge for 24 hours the milk is the perfect medium for bacteria to grow. Therefore, as contrary Mary said in a previous post... If the bottles have not been sterilised, the bacteria that would be present in small amounts on the bottles would multiply in the made up milk over the 24 hours it is being stored and potentially be present in much larger amounts than when the bottles of milk were initially made.

That's my thinking anyways...

I'd be in agreement with you there; in our case, we're nearing the twelve-month mark and are moving towards mostly cows milk rather than formula.

For a younger baby, I'd definitely stick with sterilising as long as he was exclusively on formula.

As it is, the bottles of formula are made with hot boiled water - and I also rinse the teat with hot boiled water when making them up - so I'm comfortable doing it this way.

Sligo1

seventeen sheep wrote: »

I'd be in agreement with you there; in our case, we're nearing the twelve-month mark and are moving towards mostly cows milk rather than formula.

For a younger baby, I'd definitely stick with sterilising as long as he was exclusively on formula.

As it is, the bottles of formula are made with hot boiled water - and I also rinse the teat with hot boiled water when making them up - so I'm comfortable doing it this way.

Yea the thing is... I don't really think it's a massive issue tbh. If it were thought to be harmful as such, I'm pretty sure there would be guidelines recommending a specific age to stop sterilising, or for example when they move to cows milk or whatever. Now maybe there is a recommended age specified in guidelines. But I don't know it. But I've heard and read plenty of places that 6 months is a decent age to stop sterilising. We'll keep sterilising till she's on cows milk tho. Just because when were making up the formula it's just kind of part of the process for us now really. Only takes a few minutes.

Sligo1

I actually can't wait to put our steriliser away... Takes up so much bloody room on the kitchen surface!

fro9etb8j5qsl2

10 months here and we're still sterilising. If it were up to me I would've stopped a few months back but my OH is a bit of a germophobe If we had a dishwasher, we definitely would have given it up by now but as it is, we use the milton cold water steriliser with the tablets so it's not much of a hassle anyway, just bung everything in and change the water once a day

pwurple

Still sterilising at 9 months, but only because the steriliser is a handy place to keep the empty bottles! Takes 5 mins in microwave.

I think I stopped last time when we dropped the bottles. Packed the whole lot away together, bottles in steriliser.

CelticRambler

Water at 70°C doesn't sterilise anything. ContraryMary's explanation is the correct interpretation: if you're making up bottles for immediate use, regardless of the age of the baby, there's no need to sterilise anything.

You need hot water to make sure the constituents of the milk powder are properly dissolved/emulsified. After that, the only benefit of sterilising bottles/teats is in relation to the storage. In that respect, there's no "maximum age" because it's something you should be aware of until you die of old age. I regularly made up and gave "non-sterile" bottles to my babies but these days, I sterilise more than ever because it could be several months before the children get their greedy hands on them (bottled fruit and meat terrines - different ingredients but the same risk)

Sligo1

CelticRambler wrote: »

Water at 70°C doesn't sterilise anything. )

Water at 70 degrees kills any harmful bacteria that 'may' be present in the milk powder without denaturing the powder itself.

CelticRambler

Sligo1 wrote: »

Water at 70 degrees kills any harmful bacteria that 'may' be present in the milk powder without denaturing the powder itself.

This is not correct. Boiling water (i.e. bringing it to 100°C) will kill most important pathogens in the water itself. Some common pathogens can be killed by raising the temperature to "above 70°" - e.g. Cryptosporidium needs 73°C.

Adding boiled water to anything at room temperature (bottle, powder, etc) will almost immediately drop the temperature to well below 70°C and no sterilisation of the powder takes place. Common environmental bacteria (e.g. E.coli) will be reduced in number and make it "safe" to store made-up bottles for 24 hours.

To be completely "safe", you need to subsequently raise the temperature of the made up bottle to above 70°C. If you're not doing that, then there is no particular advantage in using water at 50°, 60° or 70° to make up the bottle in the first place.

A steam steriliser will be cooking the bottles to >100°C and they are genuinely sterile (like my preserving jars). A dishwasher will not sterilise bottles, but will clean them to the point where there are so few bacteria that they don't need to be sterilised further, unless the milk is to be kept for an extended period (which isn't a good idea for other reasons).

As in so many other areas, and always in food-preparation, basic cleanliness is considerably more effective in reducing the risk of infection than sterilisation or disinfection.

Sligo1

https://www.fsai.ie/faqs/bottle_feeding_safely.html

"Should I use hot or cold water for preparing feeds?
The use of hot water (70ºC) is the preferred method for making feeds. This temperature is achieved by boiling water in the kettle and letting it cool for 30 minutes before using. This water is hot enough to kill any bacteria that may be in the food.

If you cannot prepare feed immediately using hot water you can prepare bottles of sterile water in advance to use to make the feed when required. Feed prepared in this manner cannot be stored and must be consumed immediately.
Note: Some specialised feeds cannot be made using hot water so in these cases manufacturer’s instructions should be followed.

Full details can be found in the booklet ‘Bottle Feeding your Baby’. "

Sorry I really think you are incorrect. These are the safety guidelines which have used evidence based research in order to be prepared for healthcare personnel to distribute to parents.

They could not do this if the information provided was incorrect.

seventeen sheep

CelticRambler wrote: »

This is not correct. Boiling water (i.e. bringing it to 100°C) will kill most important pathogens in the water itself. Some common pathogens can be killed by raising the temperature to "above 70°" - e.g. Cryptosporidium needs 73°C.

Adding boiled water to anything at room temperature (bottle, powder, etc) will almost immediately drop the temperature to well below 70°C and no sterilisation of the powder takes place. Common environmental bacteria (e.g. E.coli) will be reduced in number and make it "safe" to store made-up bottles for 24 hours.

To be completely "safe", you need to subsequently raise the temperature of the made up bottle to above 70°C. If you're not doing that, then there is no particular advantage in using water at 50°, 60° or 70° to make up the bottle in the first place.

A steam steriliser will be cooking the bottles to >100°C and they are genuinely sterile (like my preserving jars). A dishwasher will not sterilise bottles, but will clean them to the point where there are so few bacteria that they don't need to be sterilised further, unless the milk is to be kept for an extended period (which isn't a good idea for other reasons).

As in so many other areas, and always in food-preparation, basic cleanliness is considerably more effective in reducing the risk of infection than sterilisation or disinfection.

I think you're overthinking it.

I'm curious as to how many babies you've been sterilising (or not sterilising) for?

Parents are aware, I think, that seventy degree water does not kill all germs. But guess what - boobs are not sterile either. Few babies feed in a germ-free environment. In fact it wouldn't be healthy not to expose a healthy growing baby to any germs.

Seventy degrees (approx) kills some germs, but not all ... but, it doesn't kill the good healthy stuff in the formula. It's a good compromise, and one which most parents and medical professionals are ready to settle for

CelticRambler

The seventy degree water doesn't kill any germs, and as you say, if the baby was breast-feeding, there'd be no sterilisation going on. It needs to be that hot to melt the fats in the formula. It suits the manufacturers to align themselves with the safety message so that they don't have to expain the chemistry and physics of it all.

But even the WHO says that if you can't get boiling water, just make up the bottle and feed it straight away.

Sligo1

CelticRambler wrote: »

The seventy degree water doesn't kill any germs, and as you say, if the baby was breast-feeding, there'd be no sterilisation going on. It needs to be that hot to melt the fats in the formula. It suits the manufacturers to align themselves with the safety message so that they don't have to expain the chemistry and physics of it all.

But even the WHO says that if you can't get boiling water, just make up the bottle and feed it straight away.

What??? But the water has been boiled! Then left cool for 10-30 minutes to around 70 degrees before the milk powder is added. I really don't know what you are trying to say here. It is not the manufacturers only saying this it is the fsai aswell as the health services of Ireland. Any bacteria that may be initially in the water will already be killed before the powder is added, when the water is boiled to 100 degrees.

I'm really unsure of what you are trying to articulate here?

CelticRambler

The OP is asking at what age it's "safe" to stop sterilising the bottles. The bottles are rarely the problem - if they're clean, there should be very little risk of contamination.

The 70°C is needed, first and foremost, to make sure that the milk fats in the powder are properly melted and the baby is getting the full spectrum of nutrients that it should be getting. At 70°C the perviously boiled water might be sterile, but it will not and cannot sterilise the milk powder. If there are any "hygiene issues" in the preparation area, that's when they're introduced, but even then, it's not unless you're going to store the milk that bacteria become a problem. Badly made-up formula is always a problem.

On the flip side, food preparation hygiene issues don't disappear when a baby starts crawling, and I have a pet theory that much of the increase in food poisoning is due to my generation and those that follow being told that you can prepare sterile food with a cooled-down kettle of water. That's both wrong and dangerous - but moreso for adults than babies so not really relevant to this thread.

Sligo1

Sorry but you have stated that water at 70 degrees will not kill any bacteria in the milk powder which directly contradicts what is stated in all the food safety authority of Ireland and all health safety policies and guidelines. Can you provide a link or resource that backs up your statement specifically that "70 degrees will not kill ANY bacteria in the milk powder". I have already provided a link that backs up my ascertion. Can you do the same?

CelticRambler

The WHO guidelines http://www.who.int/foodsafety/publications/micro/PIF_Bottle_en.pdf
are the internationally accepted "best practice" and you will note that they do not refer to the powder being sterilised.

I hadn't looked at your link, but now that I have, I will make a point of writing to the FSAI and recommending that they correct their text. It is misleading on two points.

Firstly, any foodstuff - liquid or solid - heated to a temperature of no less than 70°C can be considered free of pathogenic bacteria. So, once again, the water is sterile, but the minute you start adding powder to water, the temperature drops by about 20°C and that same water will not adequately kill bacteria.

Secondly, that page says to leave the kettle for 30 minutes. This is right at the limit of safety. As you will see, the WHO guidelines clearly state no more than thirty minutes. Ten would be better in Ireland where the ambient temperature is considerably lower than it is in many other countries.

Sligo1

CelticRambler wrote: »

The WHO guidelines http://www.who.int/foodsafety/publications/micro/PIF_Bottle_en.pdf
are the internationally accepted "best practice" and you will note that they do not refer to the powder being sterilised.

I hadn't looked at your link, but now that I have, I will make a point of writing to the FSAI and recommending that they correct their text. It is misleading on two points.

Firstly, any foodstuff - liquid or solid - heated to a temperature of no less than 70°C can be considered free of pathogenic bacteria. So, once again, the water is sterile, but the minute you start adding powder to water, the temperature drops by about 20°C and that same water will not adequately kill bacteria.

Secondly, that page says to leave the kettle for 30 minutes. This is right at the limit of safety. As you will see, the WHO guidelines clearly state no more than thirty minutes. Ten would be better in Ireland where the ambient temperature is considerably lower than it is in many other countries.

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong. I have just read these WHO guidelines and it states exactly what the fsai and health services in Ireland state. That the water should be boiled and left no more than 30 minutes before adding the milk powder. This link you have provided just reiterates what I and other posters have already stated!

You still have not provided any link or evidence or studies that specifically validate your argument that adding milk powder to boiled water that has been cooled for no more than 30 minutes does not kill any bacteria in the milk. Your posts are actually only serving to validate my statements and links. And your posts are only going around in circles proving none of your claims.

To reiterate, all policies and guidelines in Ireland and now also the WHO international guidelines are pretty much serving to back up my posts.

CelticRambler

Sligo1 wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong.

No, I'm not, but if you want to debate the thermodynamics of water and the killing of bacteria using heat, let's do it in another thread. The OP asked at what age it was safe to stop sterilising bottles. The answer to that is "never" if you're going to store a nutrient-rich medium in them for any length of time; or "whenever you want" if you're going to feed baby-milk to a baby straight away.

The WHO factsheet does not make the same mistakes as the FSAI. I'll let you know if the FSAI take my corrections on board.

Sligo1

CelticRambler wrote: »

No, I'm not, but if you want to debate the thermodynamics of water and the killing of bacteria using heat, let's do it in another thread. The OP asked at what age it was safe to stop sterilising bottles. The answer to that is "never" if you're going to store a nutrient-rich medium in them for any length of time; or "whenever you want" if you're going to feed baby-milk to a baby straight away.

The WHO factsheet does not make the same mistakes as the FSAI. I'll let you know if the FSAI take my corrections on board.

The debate myself and yourself are having tho is nothing to do with the original OP and the sterilisation of bottles.

Forgive me if I choose to believe the writings and research of the FSAI, WHO and the HSE instead of the claim and opinions of some poster on boards who I don't know from adam who can't in the very least even back up their claims with any valid evidence of research or links from various authorities. Because without evidence that is exactly what they are.... "Claims and opinions".

pwurple

CelticRambler wrote: »

This is not correct. Boiling water (i.e. bringing it to 100°C) will kill most important pathogens in the water itself. Some common pathogens can be killed by raising the temperature to "above 70°" - e.g. Cryptosporidium needs 73°C.

I think you are missing what Sligo1 is saying.

Boiling the water is required to kill the water-borne bacteria, like cryptosporidium, listeria, legionella etc.

70 degree is required to kill the bacteria potentially in the formula powder. Here is a list of the potential ones. cronobacter is the common one.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/441218

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/PublicHealthFocus/ucm285401.htm

There's a link on there as wwell to the FDA formula preparation guidelines, which ALSO specifically note 70 degrees to eliminate cronobacter.

"studies suggest that mixing powdered formula with water at a temperature of at least 70 degree C—158 degrees F—creates a high probability that the formula will not contain Cronobacter sakazakii."

Both need to be done, it's not an either or situation. Both boil the water, and add hot water to formula powder.

Sligo1

pwurple wrote: »

I think you are missing what Sligo1 is saying.

Boiling the water is required to kill the water-borne bacteria, like cryptosporidium, listeria, legionella etc.

70 degree is required to kill the bacteria potentially in the formula powder. Here is a list of the potential ones. cronobacter is the common one.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/441218

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/PublicHealthFocus/ucm285401.htm

There's a link on there as wwell to the FDA formula preparation guidelines, which ALSO specifically note 70 degrees to eliminate cronobacter.

Both need to be done, it's not an either or situation. Both boil the water, and add hot water to formula powder.

Precisely.

elly123

I must be stone mad, my little fella is nearly 21 months and out of pure habit we sterilize his bottles every night. He's been on cows milk since he was 13 months old.

Maybe it's time to put the sterilizer away :):)

Brian?

We sterilised both our kids bottles until they were one. The rationale being that sterilising is so simple, why wouldn't we? I know I would have blamed myself if either of the lads ever got seriously ill so I kept up sterilising. Luckily they're both healthy kids, probably has nothing to do with sterilising the bottles but there you go.

CelticRambler

Sligo1 wrote: »

Forgive me if I choose to believe the writings and research of the FSAI, WHO and the HSE instead of the claim and opinions of some poster on boards who I don't know from adam who can't in the very least even back up their claims ...

You're forgiven. The FSAI believe me and have now updated their information to bring it into line with the WHO guidelines.

groucho marx

Still doing it for 14 month old, just habit now and part of night time routine I think

seventeen sheep

groucho marx wrote: »

Still doing it for 14 month old, just habit now and part of night time routine I think

I don't think we realised how much we hated it until we stopped. :pac:

newtoboards

Stopped at a year. By this stage he was routinely licking the buggy wheels and my shoes and the floor and pretty much any other disgusting surface you can think of anyway so it was a waste sterilising!