State sanctions foreign agency tapping of Irish people's phone calls and emails!

Kermit.de.frog

What the hell!?

Tomorrow's Irish Times front page may annoy some. Big story IMO.

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Screen-Shot-2014-12-05-at-23.36.00.png

Fr_Dougal

Thank you for the headline.

And now, the weather...

No doubt a post hoc measure to pseudo legitimise the longterm ongoing spying recently revealed by Snowden.

Very funny coincidence otherwise.

Kermit.de.frog

TheZohan wrote: »

Thank you for the headline.

And now, the weather...

You can read the article if you use the zoom function

steveone

State has gotten out of hand. Now just doing the good work of the eu. Are the oval lensed cameras on the motorways piped straight to edinburgh' then the feed is sent here?

uch

I've never said anything interesting in my life, so why in the name of "your God" would anybody want to listen to me ?

AlanS181824

Should I feel worried or not because to be honest I feel indifferent... Just kind of...Meh!

...:pac:

jaymcg91

I always feel like it's slightly older people being shocked, people my age (early twenties) kinda expect it. I know I was never shocked when all the Snowden stuff came out like...hello, did people think we weren't being listened to?! The idea that all that data was there and everybody was minding their own business seems naive, at best.

yipeeeee

Mad the outcry when Jennifer Lawrence's phone was hacked but people arent bothered when their phones and e mails are been traced.

Crazy world.

Kermit.de.frog

jaymcg91 wrote: »

I always feel like it's slightly older people being shocked, people my age (early twenties) kinda expect it.

You kinda don't expect your own country to invite other countries to spy on you though.

GAAman

But lads, it's ok. They said they are NOT going to be looking at anything private like email, or social network sites.....

And if you believe that, I've a dozen boxes of unicorn farts to sell you!

Gormley85

yipeeeee wrote: »

Mad the outcry when Jennifer Lawrence's phone was hacked but people arent bothered when their phones and e mails are been traced.

Crazy world.

These are 2 very different cases. Jennifer Lawerence had her nude photos stolen by hackers and deliberatly posted online without her permission.

In our case the government are scanning calls and emails for certain keywords, and when enough of these keywords show up it gets flagged and looked into further. If there is an issue the Garda Siochana/Interpol etc can then be notified and further action taken.

Fratton Fred

So the rights of Irish law enforcement agencies to tap phone calls are, as per the Lisbon treaty, being extended to other eu law enforcement agencies and vice versa.

Less of a **** I could not give.

Berserker

GAAman wrote: »

But lads, it's ok. They said they are NOT going to be looking at anything private like social network sites.....

You don't need to tap to access that.

On the topic in question, I couldn't care less.

FouxDaFaFa

It makes me uncomfortable and I think, as a whole, our government is painfully uneducated about the internet, communications and the importance of privacy, especially now that Ireland is somewhat of a hub of major internet-based companies (Facebook, Google, Yahoo, Ask.com, Paypal, etc). It makes us vulnerable to more "interest" than we've ever had and our politicians generally have a very superficial understanding of things.

I think it's only a matter of time until the government sleepwalks into a situation like the UK has found itself in, with their "porn filters". Except, of course, the filter is also being used to filter out sites and content deemed questionable, like the Chaos Computer Club.

On the face of it, allowing access to those "under investigation" sounds reasonable. But what constitutes an investigation and can it be retroactive?

Mr. G

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

It makes me uncomfortable and I think, as a whole, our government is painfully uneducated about the internet, communications and the importance of privacy, especially now that Ireland is somewhat of a hub of major internet-based companies (Facebook, Google, Yahoo, Ask.com, Paypal, etc). It makes us vulnerable to more "interest" than we've ever had and our politicians generally have a very superficial understanding of things.

I think it's only a matter of time until the government sleepwalks into a situation like the UK has found itself in, with their "porn filters". Except, of course, the filter is also being used to filter out sites and content deemed questionable, like the Chaos Computer Club.

On the face of it, allowing access to those "under investigation" sounds reasonable. But what constitutes an investigation and can it be retroactive?

This is why I'm of the opinion that the Govt shouldn't be going blocking anything. I can understand the need to block child pornography, but that's with a list of URLs and given to ISPs, no filter as such. It's been proven ineffective to be blocking websites anyway.

jaymcg91 wrote: »

I always feel like it's slightly older people being shocked, people my age (early twenties) kinda expect it. I know I was never shocked when all the Snowden stuff came out like...hello, did people think we weren't being listened to?! The idea that all that data was there and everybody was minding their own business seems naive, at best.

That doesn't mean it should be allowed to continue though. I feel as if younger people don't bother to care much in democracy. I see that with a lot of my peers for instance. It's as if their voice isn't being heard. Others just don't care, but they should and I feel some people really need a lesson on protecting their identity online and not posting certain things on Facebook, even with no privacy settings or anything.

I don't know who'd want to listen to me and my boring life anyway :P.

Mr. G

GAAman wrote: »

But lads, it's ok. They said they are NOT going to be looking at anything private like email, or social network sites.....

And if you believe that, I've a dozen boxes of unicorn farts to sell you!

If a foreign intelligence agency wishes to spy on Irish telecommunications networks they must ask the minister in charge for it directly. Not just notify the Irish Government. The Government should then grant or reject approval. Otherwise this could get out of control like it is now.

Gormley85 wrote: »

In our case the government are scanning calls and emails for certain keywords, and when enough of these keywords show up it gets flagged and looked into further. If there is an issue the Garda Siochana/Interpol etc can then be notified and further action taken.

Any links illustrating the Irish Govt doing this? In terms of scanning emails, a lot of providers use STARTTLS encryption between servers so it's difficult to tap any emails or Facebook connections like telephones. They would need to request it from the mail provider, e.g. Google, Yahoo, Hotmail. Otherwise it would be pure gibberish.

Data Protection in general needs to be taken more seriously. Too many breaches left right and centre, along with a total disregard to privacy in this country.

It does say that there must be an "investigation" and it must discriminate.

Capt'n Midnight

Mr. G wrote: »

Data Protection in general needs to be taken more seriously. Too many breaches left right and centre, along with a total disregard to privacy in this country.

It does say that there must be an "investigation" and it must discriminate.

Contact the EU Data Commission

Though you might have to wait a while because "The person responsible for the EU Data Protection Authority sits in Ireland, where Facebook has its headquarters for countries outside the US and Canada."

so there are a few people in the queue to talk to the commission
some great pictures on this page
http://www.gutjahr.biz/2012/07/facebook-eu-datenschutz/?

Mr. G

Aren't the EU already creating legislation or debating it for the new European DP directive?

Yurt2

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/state-sanctions-phone-and-email-tapping-1.2027844

Brazen. Will people stand up against this law?

'Shur I don't have a ting to hide. Tis only them Isis blaggards they're after anyway'

anncoates

She got a lovely playground put in the park beside my house.

What's a little surveillance in the light of that?

circadian

This sort of thing will eventually slow growth in the IT sector with companies reconsidering a move to Ireland and looking elsewhere that provides better legal protection.

RobertKK

I guess if we get a revolution we might go from the Stasi to the KGB...

SeanW

Even the mainstream media sometimes can help get to the bottom of these things:

The Department of Justice said: “The decision to commence part 3 of the Act arises from an obligation under the Treaty of Lisbon whereby the State would otherwise be in breach of its obligation to fully implement the provisions of the EU Convention on Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters by December 1st, 2014.”

"Vote yes for jobs ..."

humanji

Has this not always been the case, that when some other government wants to track a criminal in Ireland, they contact our government who decide if a wire tap is warranted or not?

SeanW

humanji wrote: »

Has this not always been the case, that when some other government wants to track a criminal in Ireland, they contact our government who decide if a wire tap is warranted or not?

Presumably there was something resembling a transparent system of due process before ...

_Kaiser_

SeanW wrote: »

Even the mainstream media sometimes can help get to the bottom of these things:

"Vote yes for jobs ..."

Ah yes, which also neatly lets our "leaders" wash their hands of it...

"The EU made us do it..."

Kermit.de.frog

This is the 3rd thread on this. I started the first one here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=93330721

Yurt2

humanji wrote: »

Has this not always been the case, that when some other government wants to track a criminal in Ireland, they contact our government who decide if a wire tap is warranted or not?

Looks like they've got rid of the pleasantries such as warrants and judicial oversight. According to the article they just need to inform the state they're doing the interception/tapping/spying and away they go. And I doubt they'd even bother with that

humanji

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This is the 3rd thread on this. I started the first one here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=93330721

MOD: Cool, I've merged the two threads.

Yurt! wrote: »

Looks like they've got rid of the pleasantries such as warrants and judicial oversight. According to the article they just need to inform the state they're doing the interception/tapping/spying and away they go. And I doubt they'd even bother with that

The article says that requests have to be made.

Yurt2

humanji wrote: »

MOD: Cool, I've merged the two threads.



The article says that requests have to be made.

Sure, but it says nothing about judicial oversight or warrants. It seems to me taps/interceptions will be put in place by Ministerial decree at the behest of foreign agencies.

humanji

But it also doesn't say that. I don't know if anyone has actually read the act, (I won't get around to it for a while and even then my interpretation is one from someone who doesn't read law), but going from the article, it doesn't say one way or an other. It only gives a broad over-view,

Capt'n Midnight

Doesn't this mean we get to request foreign phone taps too ?

My name is URL

humanji wrote: »

MOD: Cool, I've merged the two threads.

I think you might have deleted a few posts along the way

humanji

I don't think so. There's nothing showing up as deleted.

My name is URL

humanji wrote: »

I don't think so. There's nothing showing up as deleted.

My bad! I had this thread mized up with another one about the same subject

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=93346924#post93346924