Son's Christmas Present

greendom

Hi my reasonably tech savvy 14 year old wants to build a computer and wants me to buy all the component parts for Christmas. He wants to use it for gaming but I think has been reasonably budget-conscious.

Here is the spec

Will all these parts work together ?

Can anyone see any glaring admissions ?

http://www.dabs.ie/products/arctic-cooling-mx-2-4gm-thermal-paste-7H0X.html?src=3
http://www.dabs.ie/products/best-value-735-case-with-hd-audio---stealthed-dvd-cover-black-816N.html?src=3
http://www.dabs.ie/products/asus-amd-performance-bundle--includes-m5a78l-m-usb3--amd-fx-4300---4gb-corsair-xms3-ddr3-memory--926R.html?src=3

http://www.dabs.ie/products/zotac-geforce-gtx-750-1gb-pci-express-3-0-hdmi-9F4H.html?refs=4294945034-57220000&src=3
http://www.dabs.ie/products/coolermaster-elite-power-500---500w--70--efficiency--12v-single-rail-8K48.html?refs=375290000&src=2 35.64
http://www.dabs.ie/products/wd-1tb-green-sata-6gb-s-64mb-3-5--hard-drive-7Y09.html?refs=52780000&src=3
http://www.dabs.ie/products/arctic-cooling-freezer-7-pro-rev-2-cpu-cooler--intel---amd-compatibility--73WG.html?refs=4294946930&q=amd&src=16

I'm a complete novice but would like to help if he's struggling at all. Is there a book worth getting as well, that would be useful to getting it completed ?

greendom

I tried using the script in the sticky but it's not working for me. But at least here's everything in 1 url
http://www.dabs.ie/basket?src=7

SweetCaliber

Before anything is said, what exactly would be your budget on this build?

braddun

cpu is about 2012

is there anything newer and better at same price or cheaper

djerk

had a quick look at your build.. few things that stood out for me were the cpu and gpu. the cpu is a worthy investment in any build, so id recommend beefing that up and not going with something comparable to an i3 intel processor. the new i5k would be a good start, will cost a bit more but youll get your moneys worth. having said that ive owned and used amd cpus in the past and they did the job where games were concerned.. i think their new 8core fx series costs around the 190 euro mark. the one youre looking at is cheaper for a reason. no need for an aftermarket cooler really either on a cpu that really isnt up to scratch.

you can do better than the gpu listed for the price.. id ask him to reconsider and do a bit of research.. plenty of good midrange cards out there now with more horsepower. you could also check adverts.ie and ya might get something nice second hand. 500w psu is pretty shoddy these days tbh, especially if youre gonna be throwing a decent gpu in there.. aim for 650-800 at least.. and make sure it has enough amps on the 12v rail. a good psu goes a long way and can even be recycled into a new build in a few years if you dont skimp on it.

as for books? well.. everything you ever wanted and never wanted to know is available online.. its just a matter of looking for it i wish you both well on your build! that's how you learn, hands on.

ps. hardwareversand.de ..probably save you some cash compared to dabs

Genghiz Cohen

You budget looks to be about €450. Any chance we could bump that to €500?
Would you be open to maybe upgrading as you go along? (Birthdays and such)

greendom

SweetCaliber wrote: »

Before anything is said, what exactly would be your budget on this build?

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

You budget looks to be about €450. Any chance we could bump that to €500?
Would you be open to maybe upgrading as you go along? (Birthdays and such)

We could stretch to €500. And he would like to upgrade as time went on too.

TerrorFirmer

I would get something like this.

Does not include Windows however. I also didn't bother with a USB3 case/motherboard. Wouldn't bother me at all but might bother your son, doubt it though.

Genghiz Cohen

For Windows you could do something like http://www.reddit.com/r/microsoftsoftwareswap
People get MSDN Accounts that have legit keys attached, then they sell those keys for like €20 each.

Genghiz Cohen

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I would get something like this.

Does not include Windows however. I also didn't bother with a USB3 case/motherboard. Wouldn't bother me at all but might bother your son, doubt it though.

€2 delivery seems awful light.

Also, would it be worth skipping the SSD for now and getting a 750Ti instead?
Only €20 more.


Even then, +30 FPS on Metro: Last Light (1080p High settings) is damn impressive for €100 worth of card.

TerrorFirmer

Yeah Dabs are decent that way. You're probably right about the Ti to be fair, the V4 isn't that great an SSD either but once you get used to an SSD it's hard not to sneak them into every build!

The GTX750 is an unreal value card - best value card I've seen in a while in that price bracket. AMD's 260X is a poor competitor at a massively increased power draw for little performance gain.

greendom

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I would get something like this.

Does not include Windows however. I also didn't bother with a USB3 case/motherboard. Wouldn't bother me at all but might bother your son, doubt it though.

Thanks for this - I'll chat to him this evening and see what he thinks

Genghiz Cohen

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

once you get used to an SSD it's hard not to sneak them into every build!

Amen, it'd be the very next thing to be put in that build if he goes with the Ti instead.

djerk

for some reason thought i was looking at something else when i saw the gpu initially! but ya, i agree with what was said already by the others.

i still dont see the point of putting an i3 in there if he's gonna upgrade again at some point.. personally i'd take the hit with the i5 now but if budget is a constraint the i3 will do for the time being.

a 430w psu doesn't cut it imo, i'd say 400w would be the min threshold without adding more drives and peripherals. i've seen psu's flounder and give constant bsods on 500w psu's with the gtx 600 series.

just one more thing.. be careful if you get a mATX motherboard (micro ATX).. while they function perfectly well, they usually aren't designed with the addition of a beastly gpu with large heatsinks in mind so do a bit of reasearch to see if the card will fit properly and give enough clearance for cables.

http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist/ is handy for comparing parts for compatibility at a glance.

TerrorFirmer

Really have to question your logic in this thread. Guy has a 500 euro budget and you're telling him to get an 800w PSU, an i5-k processor, a better video card, calling the i3 a 'not up to scratch processor', amongst other things (all of which are quite frankly illogical assertions anyway)

I'd love to see this 800w, i5k build with faster card than the Gtx750 for €500!

be careful if you get a mATX motherboard (micro ATX).. while they function perfectly well, they usually aren't designed with the addition of a beastly gpu with large heatsinks in mind so do a bit of reasearch to see if the card will fit properly and give enough clearance for cables.

This is not true. The only possible issue that could arise is that a sata port might lay under the route of a longer card - resolved with a €2 right angled SATA cable, which usually come with motherboards anyway. I use matx boards in 90% of my builds over the past few years and I've never encountered any issues with GTX 590, R9 290, 7970, and various other higher end cards.

a 430w psu doesn't cut it imo, i'd say 400w would be the min threshold without adding more drives and peripherals. i've seen psu's flounder and give constant bsods on 500w psu's with the gtx 600 series.

This is also not true. A quality 430W is fine for a mid range gaming PC. An i5 and a GTX750 system in total would draw about 220-240w max. A 430W PSU is actually plenty good enough for a GTX970 system.

i still dont see the point of putting an i3 in there if he's gonna upgrade again at some point.. personally i'd take the hit with the i5 now but if budget is a constraint the i3 will do for the time being.

A 4th gen i3 will last for years. In 90% of games the GPU is the bottleneck - and long before the processor is, at that. The current gen i3's also beat the AMD 6 and eight cores in a lot of games.

People have been saying that 'you'd be mad to buy a dual core now/dual cores are pointless' since 2008 and the Core 2 E8400/E8500 vs Q6600/Q6700 debates.

It's 6 years later and dual cores are still excelling with the i3 line. Even Intel's €50 G3258 can toe the line with the i3, i5 and i7 in the vast majority of games. It's all about GPU these days, particularly when you're on a budget like €500.

500w psu is pretty shoddy these days tbh, especially if youre gonna be throwing a decent gpu in there.. aim for 650-800 at least..

Unless he decides to bump the budget to 1K and splash out on GTX970 SLI, he absolutely needs nowhere near a 650w PSU, let alone an 800W. I was running my R9 290 and i7 4790 on a 500w Evga White PSU the last while and it was perfectly fine.

On the contrary, PSU requirements have dropped steadily over the past ten years, with the result that these days, a 500W PSU in actually the 'new' 800W of yesteryear.

djerk

fair assertions, but hardly illogical.. i dont see the point in building a pc for 500 euro when an extra 200 will save you the bother of upgrading in the first place.. and losing more money in the long run. i dont think its bad advice to throw the best mid range cpu in there to begin with.

This is not true. The only possible issue that could arise is that a sata port might lay under the route of a longer card - resolved with a €2 right angled SATA cable, which usually come with motherboards anyway.

i was actually thinking of sata ports specifically.. ive seen some cards block out the entire block of sata ports, thats why i said he should check first. meaning which, you cant fit a single hdd.

This is also not true. A quality 430W is fine for a mid range gaming PC. An i5 and a GTX750 system in total would draw about 220-240w max. A 430W PSU is actually plenty good enough for a GTX970 system.

yeah, its grand for a mid-range build but i still wouldnt recommend it. tbh i think stability is better than the amount of watts you draw and its better to have some headroom.. what if you wanna add more hdd's/external soundcards/drives/whatever?

A 4th gen i3 will last for years. In 90% of games the GPU is the bottleneck - and long before the processor is, at that. The current gen i3's also beat the AMD 6 and eight cores in a lot of games.

in 90% of games the gpu is the bottleneck? you just proved a point.. if you have a better cpu with more throughput then why buy an i3?

It's 6 years later and dual cores are still excelling with the i3 line. Even Intel's €50 G3258 can toe the line with the i3, i5 and i7 in the vast majority of games.

games are slowly pushing towards 4 cores, sure the dual cores can push some frames in certain games but theyre gonna be obsolete no matter how your try to spin it. the g3258 is impressive for what its worth, having said that you dont just use your desktop just for games.. and thats another matter entirely.

do you have a dual core in your pc?

PSU requirements have dropped steadily over the past ten years, with the result that these days, a 500W PSU in actually the 'new' 800W of yesteryear.

sure theyve improved but 500w its not the new 800w, are you mad?.. people are just slowly starting to realise that its worth paying money for a good/reliable psu.. but this 80plus thing being thrown all the time like its the be all end all and most have absolutely no idea of what it actually means.

to be fair, im better used to building higher end systems these days (but ive been building and repairing them since the days of the 386).. my last gpu cost more than this build.. perhaps im a bit biased in that sense but i will always tell anyone to buy the best (or aim for the middle) when theyre building a pc.

we all have our own ideas about.. how to build.. what is possible.. what could be better.. i hope im not coming across as being illogical.. im just lending my own experience!

my 2 cents and sorry for the confusion greendom

TerrorFirmer

djerk wrote: »

i was actually thinking of sata ports specifically.. ive seen some cards block out the entire block of sata ports, thats why i said he should check first. meaning which, you cant fit a single hdd.

That is easily solved with right angled cables. Or if it really turned out to be a huge problem in the unlikely event that he wanted to add multiple sata devices, a €10 PCI-E to Sata card would suffice for additional - but that is literally worst case scenario and highly unlikely.

djerk wrote: »

yeah, its grand for a mid-range build but i still wouldnt recommend it. tbh i think stability is better than the amount of watts you draw and its better to have some headroom.. what if you wanna add more hdd's/external soundcards/drives/whatever?

sure theyve improved but 500w its not the new 800w, are you mad?.. people are just slowly starting to realise that its worth paying money for a good/reliable psu.. but this 80plus thing being thrown all the time like its the be all end all and most have absolutely no idea of what it actually means.

But now you're actually confusing stability with wattage. Wattage does not equal stability or reliability. If anything people are finally realising now that for years they were throwing away money on obscenely overpowered supplies. A 430W PSU is enough for this setup, and it's enough for something, if this young lad was so fortunate, like an i7 and GTX970 setup as well.

He's 14. This is his first attempt at a build. I don't think he's suddenly going to be adding 5 hard drives, GTX980's, etc.

djerk wrote: »

in 90% of games the gpu is the bottleneck? you just proved a point.. if you have a better cpu with more throughput then why buy an i3?

djerk wrote: »

games are slowly pushing towards 4 cores, sure the dual cores can push some frames in certain games but theyre gonna be obsolete no matter how your try to spin it. the g3258 is impressive for what its worth, having said that you dont just use your desktop just for games.. and thats another matter entirely.

do you have a dual core in your pc?

What point? I said GPU not CPU. Meaning that in 90% of games, unless you have something like a GTX980, the graphics card is the limiting factor on your framerate, not the processor.

They've been saying that since 2007. 7 years later and dual cores (well, Intel's dual cores, forget AMD's dismal offerings) are still keeping pace with the fastest quad cores. Why? Again, because simply put, 90%+ of games are heavily GPU dependent.

Look at the reviews of the G3220 for example. Metro Last Light 1080p ultra settings. G3220: 40fps. i7-4770K: 47fps.

Bioshock Infinite 1080p ultra settings. G3220: 82fps. i7-4770k: 89fps.

I have an i7 but my budget was €1,200, not €500 and I do work related stuff on it as well.

No-one's saying that there's no point getting an i5/i7, but there certainly are far more important things to consider in a 500 euro build than the processor...like the video card.

Down the line he can throw in an i5 if he wants. Right now the Pentium or i3 will meet and exceed his needs for the near future. He'll need video card upgrades before he need a processor upgrade, and by the time he needs a processor upgrade, 2nd had S11550 i5's and i7's will be cheap enough.

Gumbi

I'd just like to chime in that I would much prefer cutting OUT the HDD in favour of a larger capacity SSD (for now). My brother just picked up an MX100 Crucial SSD 256GB for 80 euro delivered on Amazon on sale a few days ago, it's crazy paying 33 euro for 32 GB as in this build.

256GB is enough space for a month or so while you save up 50 euro for a TB of storage in a HDD. Plus the MX100 is a much better SSD performance wise than the suggested one.

challengemaster

djerk wrote: »

fair assertions, but hardly illogical.. i dont see the point in building a pc for 500 euro when an extra 200 will save you the bother of upgrading in the first place.. and losing more money in the long run.

Because not every parent has an extra €200 lying around to spend €700 on a christmas present?

Genghiz Cohen

Gumbi wrote: »

I'd just like to chime in that I would much prefer cutting OUT the HDD in favour of a larger capacity SSD (for now). My brother just picked up an MX100 Crucial SSD 256GB for 80 euro delivered on Amazon on sale a few days ago, it's crazy paying 33 euro for 32 GB as in this build.

256GB is enough space for a month or so while you save up 50 euro for a TB of storage in a HDD. Plus the MX100 is a much better SSD performance wise than the suggested one.

This actually makes a lot of sense.
If you go with a HDD first you'll need to wipe everything to move windows on the SSD once you get it.
Pay your son €1 a day for the next month or two to stack & empty the dishwasher and keep the house in reasonable condition, come mid-February you'll have more than enough there for a 1TB HDD to add to the computer.

greendom

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I would get something like this.

Does not include Windows however. I also didn't bother with a USB3 case/motherboard. Wouldn't bother me at all but might bother your son, doubt it though.

Thanks very much again for this. One delighted son !

He hasn't started putting it together yet though

Gumbi

Awesome! Hope ye have fun putting it together.

Gumbi

Awesome! Hope ye have fun putting it together.

greendom

Gumbi wrote: »

Awesome! Hope ye have fun putting it together.

We've made a good go of it, but struggling with the internal cable connections. Can anyone point us in the direction that may give some help?

TerrorFirmer

The motherboard manual will help you out on that one, it will have pictures as well.

The connectors from the case are labelled, and the manual will tell you where each one goes.

You'll have USB, Audio, these will be large block connectors, and then you'll have seperate, smaller ones with connect the power button, LED power light, reset switch, etc. The only necessary one is actually the power switch, the others aren't strictly essential.

the_syco

greendom wrote: »

We've made a good go of it, but struggling with the internal cable connections. Can anyone point us in the direction that may give some help?

As TerrorFirmer has said, the manual can be of great help for your first build.

All else fails, throw up a photo of the current connections and someone here may help you.

Lockheed

Hey there guys! I'm greendom's son, and my PC is working. I am installing drivers now!! Thanks for all your help.

Lockheed

It's been a while! I've been trying to reformat and reinstall Windows 10 recently, I pick my language, and then it's been telling me that a required media driver is missing. What could this possibly be, with the specifications on my computer? I never got the SDD, I only have the WD wd10ezrx-00d8pb0 1TB
http://imgur.com/a/rDtef

JamboMac

Lockheed wrote: »

It's been a while! I've been trying to reformat and reinstall Windows 10 recently, I pick my language, and then it's been telling me that a required media driver is missing. What could this possibly be, with the specifications on my computer? I never got the SDD, I only have the WD wd10ezrx-00d8pb0 1TB
http://imgur.com/a/rDtef

Basically where is the version of windows stored, is it on a CD or USB?
If its a CD was it 2 discs or more and that driver might be on another disc.

TerrorFirmer

Install Win10 via USB drive created using the media creation tool in Windows, and in the bios boot menu pick UEFI option.

If that fails or you can't get a UEFI option, use Rufus to create a bootable ISO on USB, that should solve it.

Lockheed

I was trying USB before but with some random ISO creator, I'll try the windows one now. thank you