Property Management - how to change?

ellaj

Hi,
I live in Balbriggan and pay very high management fee, but the property management does not do anything.
The common area is in very bad condition, very dirty, broken lift, constantly open car park gate. Kids are coming in and out whenever they want and destroy everything.
I think I am the only owner living in my building.
Could you tell me what rights I have, please? What can I do to improve the service?
I email the management every few days, ring them. Nothing change.
Is it any chance to change them?
Thanks for any advice.

David900

The management company would normally be specific to your development and a couple of residents would be nominated to sit as directors, unless your development is managed by the local authority?

The management company would be sub-contract maintenance services to a property service firm.

Management companies would hold an annual AGM, which as an owner you should be invited to attend. Do you think that is the case with your development?

ellaj

Hi David,
There is no residents in the property management. As I said I am the one and only owner living in the building. The rest are tenants.
Nobody cares about the common area and everybody is afraid of the vandals.
I still did not get any notice regarding AGM, but I will ask them.
What else can I do?
I do not know another owners.

AfterHrsProp

ellaj wrote: »

Hi David,
There is no residents in the property management. As I said I am the one and only owner living in the building. The rest are tenants.
Nobody cares about the common area and everybody is afraid of the vandals.
I still did not get any notice regarding AGM, but I will ask them.
What else can I do?
I do not know another owners.

Contact the property management company directly to see why you havent been notified of an AGM yet. When the time for the AGM comes ask to see to a breakdown of expenditure & outline the issues you currently have with their property management. If their responses are not satisfactory, hold a vote to see if the other landlords want to remove them. Be aware though that alot of property management companies will have contracts for years to manage a building.

Paulw

Become a director of your management company. Put yourself up for election.

Then, with agreement from the other directors, replace the management agent.

Simple really.

nemo1702

Ellaj I think i'm with the same management agent as you but in a different area and We have the same issues - lack of response, promising loads will be done but nothing actually done.....follow up with them on the AGM....they tried to do the same in our development and not hold one. I've actually given up complaining to them.

Del2005

It's not the management agents job to do the AGM, that's the job of the Management Company. If you don't have any correspondence from them look up the directors at the CRO and chase them up to organise one, as it's legally required they are held.

nemo1702

Del2005 wrote: »

It's not the management agents job to do the AGM, that's the job of the Management Company. If you don't have any correspondence from them look up the directors at the CRO and chase them up to organise one, as it's legally required they are held.

Sorry I should have said that, legally, the directors of the Company were responsible. I'm lucky in that I know who they are but Ellaj might not as she's the only owner occupier in her block/area.

David900

nemo1702 wrote: »

Sorry I should have said that, legally, the directors of the Company were responsible. I'm lucky in that I know who they are but Ellaj might not as she's the only owner occupier in her block/area.

Yes Ella, this is the best thing to do. Best thing to do would be to ring the managers and ask directly, if they are elusive you might have to dig yourself.

For this you'll need the name of the management company, you might find this on some documentation from when you purchased, on some signage in the development or maybe some correspondence you have.

As above, once you have the companies name, you can find the directors from the CRO. You still might not know these people but it's likely the are owners of some other property, likely landlords in your case.

ellaj

Thank you lads.
I have asked about the AGM just now.
So, next step is put myself up for election to become a director.
But as Nemo said I am the only owner in my building. This is the problem.

ellaj

David, I know the name of the management company.
I pay a management fee and correspondence with them very often.
But they are just replying, that's it. No action.

David900

ellaj wrote: »

David, I know the name of the management company.
I pay a management fee and correspondence with them very often.
But they are just replying, that's it. No action.

It goes back to what was mentioned earlier, there is a difference between the management company and the property manager.

The management company is set up to management a particular development, this would have directors nominated by residents. They appoint a property manager.

I'd imagine you're in contact with the property manager.

You need the name of the former.

Paulw

ellaj wrote: »

David, I know the name of the management company.
I pay a management fee and correspondence with them very often.
But they are just replying, that's it. No action.

You should be paying your fees to the management company, but corresponding with the management agent. They should be different entities.

Management company runs the place but the management agent does the day to day stuff on behalf of the management company.

As an owner, you are a member of the management company, and should be electing directors and reviewing the accounts at each AGM.

ellaj

"You will receiving your invitation to AGM 3 weeks before AGM will be held as of now Macfar are waiting for books to come back from accountants".

I have just received the answer.
I wrote the management company to ask about details of management agent and I was told three of them are the management agents.

David900

ellaj wrote: »

"You will receiving your invitation to AGM 3 weeks before AGM will be held as of now Macfar are waiting for books to come back from accountants".

I have just received the answer.
I wrote the management company to ask about details of management agent and I was told three of them are the management agents.

Bit confused by the last part, maybe they are talking about directors?
Ask for the names of the 3 anyway, it should make it clear.

ellaj

I understand, a management agent is responsible for the building. So, I asked them about his/her name. They told me they are the managing agents for my building. It means three people (two women and one man).
I know their names as well.

Paulw

ellaj wrote: »

I understand, a management agent is responsible for the building. So, I asked them about his/her name. They told me they are the managing agents for my building. It means three people (two women and one man).
I know their names as well.

So, the directors are also acting as agents? Sounds unusual, but possible. It would make for an interesting AGM and also interesting accounts, especially if they are being paid for being an agent. Are they registered and licensed as a property management agent?

Either way, you are entitled to full accounts and invite/minutes from each AGM.

ellaj

Paul, but I have no clue how to start and how to check all the information
I remember my solicitor was surprised to see the annual report.
How can I check if they are registered and licensed as a property management agent?

anncoates

Become a director and suggest changing or in this case getting a professional agent.

That's assuming the company isn't just chronically short of money because of unpaid fees.

We did it ourselves and have a far better agent now.

Paulw

ellaj wrote: »

Paul, but I have no clue how to start and how to check all the information
I remember my solicitor was surprised to see the annual report.
How can I check if they are registered and licensed as a property management agent?

Annual reports, accounts, and such should be on the CRO website, against your management company name/details.

As for management agent - http://www.psr.ie/

If your solicitor was surprised, then that would have raised some red flags with me, and you should have asked more questions. Knowledge is power.

ellaj

Can I do anything if I am the only owner in AGM?
Let say, nobody else is coming.

ellaj

Thank you Paul.
The solicitor was surprised at the high electricity and insurance bills.

Paulw

ellaj wrote: »

Can I do anything if I am the only owner in AGM?
Let say, nobody else is coming.

At an AGM, you need a quorum (minimum number of people). Your articles of association for the management company will specify that number. If a quorum is not met, the AGM needs to be postponed and called again until a quorum is met.

At the AGM you have a vote on all aspects of the company. Before the AGM, you can propose issues to be raised and put yourself up for election.

ellaj

Thank you Paul. You are so helpful

P. Breathnach

You are not the only owner. Every unit in the development has an owner. I think you might be the only owner who lives in the development. Every owner (or, in some developments, every owner whose fees are paid up to date) is entitled to attend and vote at the a.g.m.

If you hope to become a director of the owners' management company, you need a crash course on how companies work, and on the rights and responsibilities of directors.

And don't rely too heavily on your solicitor's opinion of the accounts. Not all solicitors are expert in financial matters or on company law.

ellaj

P. Breathnach, I am the only owner living in the building, as I wrote.
I am sure no else (owners) care about the building, as they just rent the apartments.
I am Phd in finance, should be enough to become a director.

P. Breathnach

ellaj wrote: »

P. Breathnach, I am the only owner living in the building, as I wrote.
I am sure no else (owners) care about the building, as they just rent the apartments.
I am Phd in finance, should be enough to become a director.

I am sure that the other owners also care about the building. It's just that they don't have the same perspective that you have. They see it as an investment (perhaps an underperforming one) whereas you see it as home.

With a PhD in finance, why are you placing any weight on your solicitor's opinions on the OMC's accounts? You should have an idea about the electricity consumption in the development and about the cost of insurance.

My personal opinion is that it is good to have resident directors on the board of the OMC.

P. Breathnach

Anybody who wants to get involved in an OMC should study this: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2011/en.act.2011.0002.pdf

ellaj

P. Breathnach wrote: »

My personal opinion is that it is good to have resident directors on the board of the OMC.

I am sure not for Macfar.

P. Breathnach, you have not seen the common area... It is a drama. No security, pee, poo, every second day broken doors, broken glasses, broken walls, no cleaning, broken lift, no renovation for ages.
And you want to tell me another owners take care about it?!

My question is: where is my annual management fee - 1600e?
I am for 3 months here and I want to change something. I do not need to be a director. I have a good job and hobby. I know how to spend my free time.
What I need is peace and quiet.
But I do not like to pay for nothing.

P. Breathnach

ellaj wrote: »

I am sure not for Macfar.

P. Breathnach, you have not seen the common area... It is a drama. No security, pee, poo, every second day broken doors, broken glasses, broken walls, no cleaning, broken lift, no renovation for ages.
And you want to tell me another owners take care about it?!

My question is: where is my annual management fee - 1600e?
...

And my question is "where is everybody else's management fee?". If most owners are paying, there might be enough funds to pay for proper upkeep; if they are not paying - there's the core of your problem.

ellaj

That's why I need your help lads.
I wonder I can do something or nothing

Paulw

As a unit owner, you are entitled to see the accounts, and exactly how the money is being spent, and what is being collected.

Then you have the articles of association of your management company, plus the Companies Act to give you power as a member of the company. On top of that is the Multi-Units Development Act.

Plenty of reading for you. Knowledge is power.

Of course you can do something, but having other unit owners on your side is always a good way to go. More power with more people all wanting the same thing. For landlords - a better quality development brings in higher rent.

ellaj

Exactly Paul
Thanks a million.

Lantus

OK, re the accounts if you don't have them so onto the CRO and with the company name (usually my-estate management company ltd) and check that it is the right one. (NOT the agent)

You can now get the say the last three years of accounts and the B10 director form which will give you the name and addresses of the directors if they don't have a separate company contact.

The account based on your knowledge of service fees will give you a rough idea of what percentage are paying each year. Has this gone up, down or remained the same. Non payment is a huge problem as companies only have that which is paid to them each year.

Write to the Directors and request the members register which is the name and address of every member in the development which they are obliged to provide by law (See ODCE handbook.) This provides you some leverage as to contacting other owners to develop support. It may also shed light on other problems like lots of the addresses still down as the unit in the development. If they are all rented this means the documentation is not going to where the owner lives. Basically the company no longer has any direct contact with the owner. Huge problems and owners are responsible for this.

Scrutinise your budget to see what is allocated each year. Has anything over the last three years been done or are the same things coming up every year as a wish list.

I guess the nest step is looking at lease enforcement. If you are apartments (and I assume you are based on the fee.) then subject to the contract lease the OMC may need to start looking at taking away services such as TV and satellite (the right to use the companies wall to mount such a device.) and even a right of access if the entrance is a common entrance and owned by the company. This is drastic but bear in mind the landlords have no problem taking money. If there are other services such as parking or anything else then use it as the contract stipulates. If not then the cost will be even more in future years as a run down building will cost much more to look after if left to neglect.

Being a director along with others gives you a chance to enact these changes as well as make savings or refocus the company's aims and objectives. A new agent could be an option but don't blame it all on them. The best agent in the world can do nothing without service fee income!

Finally look at court action where non payment is not forthcoming in at least a few cases. Ideally where you know that owners have the money (some background checking is required.) and are just engaged in deliberate avoidance. You cannot get something where people have nothing court order or not.

Read your articles of association which is on CRO and the ODCE handbook on OMCs which is free online as well as the MUD act (free online.) Those three documents are the backbone of knowledge and in conjunction with the unit contract lease documents you have virtually everything you need to understand and if a director run a development.

athtrasna

ellaj wrote: »

My question is: where is my annual management fee - 1600e?
I am for 3 months here and I want to change something. I do not need to be a director. I have a good job and hobby. I know how to spend my free time.
What I need is peace and quiet.
But I do not like to pay for nothing.

Nobody else will protect your investment better than you can. I became a director because I wanted to ensure that our development was well run, well looked after and a pleasant place to live. It sounds to me like you want the same thing. So you do need to get involved, you can't rely on others to do it for you.

jd

"Macfar" appear to be just management agents
http://macfar.ie/

ellaj

Lantus, thank you for your advices. I really appreciate.

Athtrasna, I agree with you. Thank you

ellaj

Jd, I do not know who they are. The agents probably.
But in all documents they are a management company as well.

jd

ellaj wrote: »

Jd, I do not know who they are. The agents probably.
But in all documents they are a management company as well.

They are not the Owners' Management Company.
Do a search on www.CRO.ie for "your development name" - you may find the actual OMC there.

Lantus

On the issue of non resident unit owners and missing addresses one tactic is to write to the last address and the unit address ( in the hope that the tenant passes mail on) and give say 20 days or else you will write to the PRTB, revenue, Dept.Welfare and their mortgage provider (get this for 5quid off land registry) to explain to them that the property has been rented out since xx/xx/xx and the owner no longer lives there.

If they ARE PRTB registered you can make a request for their details. If not then they are added to list of people to be dealt with by PRTB. Doesn't help the OMC that much. I find it has been slightly helpful in getting some info but also adds a lot of paper work. If they are not declaring that income to revenue then it helps ensure tax revenue goes to essential services like hospitals rather than landlords who think the law doesn't apply to them. Mortgage providers will normally require notification and landlord insurance rather than normal insurance. Again if its all on the sly it causes the landlord a headache which is worth it. Then take down their dish and change the common entrance access subject to your contract lease and very stringent board oversight and notification and due diligence.

jd

One other thing, if you search for your company name at
http://www.solocheck.ie/
you will see director names without a payment

ellaj

Jesus! Too much information
Thank you guys.

jim-mcdee

I think I know the development you are talking about. You are not the only owner occupier, but there are only a few. It is a disgrace what is happening there, but the root of the issue is non payment of management charges. No money in the kitty.

ellaj

They told me they have no problem with the payment. Lies!
I told them to lock the gate up and give fobs to people, who paid the management fee only.

jim-mcdee

They are doing a big upgrade in the next couple of months. Hopefully the place will not be destroyed before then, as it is getting worse day by day.

Paulw

ellaj wrote: »

They told me they have no problem with the payment. Lies!

Your accounts should show this. You should get a full copy of accounts, which should show the incoming money, and outgoing funds. You should also check what funds are in the sinking fund.

ellaj

Paul, is that the report on CRO for 3e? B1?

Paulw

You shouldn't need to get it from the CRO. The management agent should supply it to you, for free. It is company information you should get each year, before the AGM.

But, yeah, the B1 annual returns should have information, but not nearly as much as the accounts you are due.

ellaj

They are still waiting for the accounts.

Paulw

Get last years, and the year before. That will give you an idea of how solvent the company is.

Not surprising that the 2014 figures aren't done, depending on the company year. Ours is 1st Jan to 31st Dec, so won't have our stuff done until early 2015.

ellaj

Thanks Paul.
I will ask them for the previous year as well.