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Deduction from deposit for cleaning

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  • 05-12-2014 11:52am
    #1
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    Landlord has given me back deposit, less €165 for the place to be "professionally cleaned."

    I was under the impression that deductions from deposit can only be made where: a) there is unpaid rent, or b) there is damage beyond normal wear and tear.

    He is saying it is a normal condition of the lease. Now, I don't have the lease in front of me, though I do have a copy at home which I will consult later, but what I really want to know is - can such a condition in a lease apply above and beyond what is allowed by the law?

    By the way, the place was "professionally cleaned" before we moved in. It wasn't clean when we moved in, we had to spend two days re-cleaning. When we moved out last week, the place was spotless.

    Thanks.


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    #2
    goose06
    Registered Users Posts: 742 ✭✭✭goose06


    Had the very same before withheld €300 for professional cleaning, place was spotless when we left and I always take pictures as a backup.
    He Refused to pay, went to PRTB for mediation where he was told to pay us back in full.


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    #3
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    goose06 wrote: »
    Had the very same before withheld €300 for professional cleaning, place was spotless when we left and I always take pictures as a backup.
    He Refused to pay, went to PRTB for mediation where he was told to pay us back in full.

    Did it mention anything in your lease about professional cleaning?


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    #4
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Did the landlord provide a receipt for the deduction?


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    #5
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    A landlord can only deduct from your deposit for cleaning when they have receipts to show the work done BUT they must firstly bring any issues to your attention and give you the opportunity to clean it yourself!

    they are not allowed make deductions to cover normal wear and tear or to have the painting refreshed or contract cleaners in after a tenancy as long as the place has been left reasonably clean(a deep clean performed before vacating).

    The lease may mention the deep clean before vacating and many people will employ cleaners themselves to carry this out so there is rarely a need for landlords to charge and any such addition to the lease might be seen as an unfair or illegal clause.


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    #6
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    Did the landlord provide a receipt for the deduction?

    He actually sent me a quote for cleaning several weeks ago.

    He said "there is no need to clean the property, it is going to be professionally cleaned, quote attached" or something to that effect.

    It was stupid of me not to bring it up then, but I simply didn't think. I assumed he was just getting it cleaned/painted etc as a matter of course for the new tenants.

    We then went on to thoroughly clean the place, to a much higher standard than the same professional cleaner had cleaned it to before we moved in.


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    #7
    goose06
    Registered Users Posts: 742 ✭✭✭goose06


    No just that the apartment should be left in a similar condition as it was found. Problem we hard was that the Letting agent was supposed to meet us on last day of tenancy to hand over the keys and have a walk around to confirm that everything is ok, they didn't bother turning up or taking phone calls when we finally got through to him he asked us to leave the keys on the kitchen table and he'd look at it the next day. When the deposit was refunded it was down the money.


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    #8
    the world wonders
    Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭the world wonders


    whatawaster wrote: »
    Did it mention anything in your lease about professional cleaning?
    Even if it does the landlord may not deduct from the deposit to pay for it. Legally, the landlord may retain your deposit to cover unpaid rent and damages (beyond normal wear and tear) only.


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    #9
    DukeOfTheSharp
    Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭DukeOfTheSharp


    It sounds like you got jammed up. The landlord seems to have sent that letter and avoided you on the last day knowing full well that they'd charge for the cleaning. You never agreed, you'd other things on your mind, and even the PRTB would agree that the landlord's actions scream set-up. Basically, they didn't fulfill the end-agreement to meet with you and take the keys, therefore they never seen that the place was clean, meaning they could then get it 'cleaned'. Landlords can't keep your money for cleaning, especially when you've done it yourself and they didn't bother coming to check up if it was necessary in the first place. The PRTB will probably demand a receipt, none will arrive and they'll get you your money back. This happened to me a few times, though I had picture evidence and they'd no receipt to it was much easier.


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    #10
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »
    It sounds like you got jammed up. The landlord seems to have sent that letter and avoided you on the last day knowing full well that they'd charge for the cleaning. You never agreed, you'd other things on your mind, and even the PRTB would agree that the landlord's actions scream set-up. Basically, they didn't fulfill the end-agreement to meet with you and take the keys, therefore they never seen that the place was clean, meaning they could then get it 'cleaned'. Landlords can't keep your money for cleaning, especially when you've done it yourself and they didn't bother coming to check up if it was necessary in the first place. The PRTB will probably demand a receipt, none will arrive and they'll get you your money back. This happened to me a few times, though I had picture evidence and they'd no receipt to it was much easier.

    They probably will be able to provide a receipt though, as I fully believe they did get the place professionally cleaned. My issue is why am I paying for it?


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    #11
    FobleAsNuck
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭FobleAsNuck


    you're not. log a complaint with PRTB


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    #12
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Estate agent tried this with me before. Once I replied with the residential tenancies acts and quoted the part about only things beyond normal wear and tear to be taken from it I got the full deposit back. Never did reply to explain how they knew the place would need to be cleaned before final inspection.

    When I move into a new place that has supposedly been cleaned I'm left wondering why they hire these people as they do a terrible job.


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    #13
    DukeOfTheSharp
    Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭DukeOfTheSharp


    whatawaster wrote: »
    They probably will be able to provide a receipt though, as I fully believe they did get the place professionally cleaned. My issue is why am I paying for it?

    'Professionally cleaned' is, in my experience, landlord code for 'we're trying to take extra money and hope you don't say anything' because they actually charged you for it, and they shouldn't have. You don't pay for that, it was never in any agreement and that's the end of it, deposits only cover damages so you should lodge a complaint with the PRTB.


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    #14
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Just to update:

    Lease has, from what I can see, two relevant passages:

    3.9 (under Tenants covenants) - Immediately before handing up possession of the premises on the termination of this Agreement to thoroughly clean all cookers, fridge, sanitary apparatus and other appliances and all carpets, floor coverings and furnishings and to deliver up same in a sound and clean condition, fair wear and tear excepted; provided always that breach of this condition shall entitle the Landlord to deduct the cost of cleaning the premises from the security deposit

    and

    6 First Schedule (House Rules) - At the end of the tenancy period the tenant is to pay to the landlord the cost of professionally cleaning the house.


    Two conflicting clauses really.
    Shouldn't matter I guess. No more than I would have been entitled to withhold the last month's rent to offset against the deposit, he cannot use the deposit for something I'm apparently supposed to "pay him"? Right?


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    #15
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    whatawaster wrote: »
    Just to update:

    Lease has, from what I can see, two relevant passages:

    3.9 (under Tenants covenants) - Immediately before handing up possession of the premises on the termination of this Agreement to thoroughly clean all cookers, fridge, sanitary apparatus and other appliances and all carpets, floor coverings and furnishings and to deliver up same in a sound and clean condition, fair wear and tear excepted; provided always that breach of this condition shall entitle the Landlord to deduct the cost of cleaning the premises from the security deposit

    and

    6 First Schedule (House Rules) - At the end of the tenancy period the tenant is to pay to the landlord the cost of professionally cleaning the house.


    Two conflicting clauses really.
    Shouldn't matter I guess. No more than I would have been entitled to withhold the last month's rent to offset against the deposit, he cannot use the deposit for something I'm apparently supposed to "pay him"? Right?

    Not sure on this you agreed to pay for the cleaning when you signed if you didn't want to you should have walked away, might want to go to a solicitor to see if it's valid.


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    #16
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    whatawaster wrote: »
    Just to update:

    Lease has, from what I can see, two relevant passages:

    3.9 (under Tenants covenants) - Immediately before handing up possession of the premises on the termination of this Agreement to thoroughly clean all cookers, fridge, sanitary apparatus and other appliances and all carpets, floor coverings and furnishings and to deliver up same in a sound and clean condition, fair wear and tear excepted; provided always that breach of this condition shall entitle the Landlord to deduct the cost of cleaning the premises from the security deposit

    and

    6 First Schedule (House Rules) - At the end of the tenancy period the tenant is to pay to the landlord the cost of professionally cleaning the house.


    Two conflicting clauses really.
    Shouldn't matter I guess. No more than I would have been entitled to withhold the last month's rent to offset against the deposit, he cannot use the deposit for something I'm apparently supposed to "pay him"? Right?

    Please seek advice on these clauses from a professional. Legal advice is not permitted here and seeking advice on specific clauses of your lease agreement would fall under that.


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