GLAS, Fencing and Tax

mikefoxo

Trying to get the old man to sign up to GLAS. All he ever had was SFP and DAS, lost DAS two years ago. I was suggesting fencing watercourses and stonewall maintenance. Walls will be fine but what about the fences? He mostly has cattle but gets a few sheep from time to time. What sort of fence would we have to put up? If we only had cattle could we put up permanent electric fences?

What about the tax implications? Will 52% of whatever he gets go to Revenue?

Mad4simmental

Going to look into getting into glas here to. Meeting on in birr next week about it. We were in reps for 5 years is there much of a difference in glass and reps?

Username John

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Going to look into getting into glas here to. Meeting on in birr next week about it. We were in reps for 5 years is there much of a difference in glass and reps?

How are you Mad?

I am the same as yerself, was in REPS. But I think GLAS is more like the AEOS scheme that came after REPS.

I wonder how many will get in, as if you're not in a specialist area, you'd wonder will it be over-subscribed...
And whats worse, when will you find out that you're not in... and how much work the dept expects you to have done by that date

Have a look at the payment rates in the link here

Unless you have farmland birds in your area, the other higher payment options are
Low input perm pasture 314 / ha *
Traditional hay meadow 315 / ha
Wild bird cover 900 / ha

* I think in AEOS permanent pasture was defined as 8 years or older, I wonder will it be the same in GLAS?

I guess it very much depends on your system of farming, and whether those options would fit into your system.

sako 85

I rang my Teagasc advisor earlier this week as to be honest I'm totally confused about GLAS. We are leaving REPS4 this year and I was hoping to join GLAS. Basically what my Teagasc advisor said was, GLAS is basically a 1st cousin of AEOS and that anyone who farms in anyway intensively will struggle to get any decent amount of money out of it. Unless you are or are willing to farm extensively then you might as well forget about GLAS.

I'm not saying this is correct but I just thought I'd share.

Jack180570

mikefoxo wrote: »

Trying to get the old man to sign up to GLAS. All he ever had was SFP and DAS, lost DAS two years ago. I was suggesting fencing watercourses and stonewall maintenance. Walls will be fine but what about the fences? He mostly has cattle but gets a few sheep from time to time. What sort of fence would we have to put up? If we only had cattle could we put up permanent electric fences?

What about the tax implications? Will 52% of whatever he gets go to Revenue?

Glas income is taxable so whatever marginal tax rate your father is on is the rate he will suffer on the Glas income. Regarding measures, firstly to say that the scheme has not been approved by Brussels and in fact commented that the 'maximum payment of €5,000 or €2,000 is not justified'.. this would appear to indicate that there may be further changes before the scheme is finalised and signed off by the EU.
Under the proposed scheme there are two measures that are eligible for 300-320/ha payment but these are limited to 10 ha so (assuming that the scheme remains as is) these will allow extensive farmers to get the first €3000 odd easily enough. If you have land in the hen harrier SPA then you will be able to draw down the entire Glas payment with around 13.5ha. Beyond that, it will not be easy to get the 'other' €2000 without spending a good proportion of it in completing the measures.
There is talk that the new forestry scheme will pay around €500/ha for conifer forestry for 15 years. This will be free from income tax but will be liable for USC and if your father is under 65, PRSI also. Other advantage of the forestry scheme is that he may be eligible to draw down SFP also on the planted land.

rangler1

sako 85 wrote: »

I rang my Teagasc advisor earlier this week as to be honest I'm totally confused about GLAS. We are leaving REPS4 this year and I was hoping to join GLAS. Basically what my Teagasc advisor said was, GLAS is basically a 1st cousin of AEOS and that anyone who farms in anyway intensively will struggle to get any decent amount of money out of it. Unless you are or are willing to farm extensively then you might as well forget about GLAS.

I'm not saying this is correct but I just thought I'd share.

I can't see much hope of getting anything worthwhile either

Justjens

The finer details have been issued to a few planners but until we get to see what every measure really entails it is nigh on impossible to make any decision on joining.

There are a few measures that look enticing but what is really involved and what restrictions there are is any ones guess.

Mad4simmental

After the meeting lastnight I really don't think glas is for any farmer that is any way trying to farm intensfully.

It's more for the lad that's happy to have old meadows and farm very low input lot out put.

Or if you have a few rare birds or a crap few acres that you don't mind letting go wild.

If you don't qualify for one of the tear 1 or two steps it's very unlikely you will get in.

It pays you in one hand and takes it from the other IMO.

Jack180570

Mad4simmental wrote: »

After the meeting tonight I really don't think glas is for any farmer that is any way trying to farm intensfully.

It's more for the lad that's happy to have old meadows and farm very low input lot out put.

Or if you have a few rare birds or a crap few acres that you don't mind letting go wild.

If you don't qualify for one of the tear 1 or two steps it's very unlikely you will get in.

It pays you in one hand and takes it from the other IMO.

Looks like it is going to be poor scheme overall.... even for the non-intensive lads. Looks like the 'ideal' applicants will be the folk with hen harrier SPA who will be able to get the full amount as long as they have enough land. The other non-intensive fold will be limited to 10ha of the traditional hay meadows or species rich grassland which will give them around 3100, after that it will be 'buying' the other 1900...

Username John

Mad4simmental wrote: »

After the meeting lastnight I really don't think glas is for any farmer that is any way trying to farm intensfully.

It's more for the lad that's happy to have old meadows and farm very low input lot out put.

Or if you have a few rare birds or a crap few acres that you don't mind letting go wild.

If you don't qualify for one of the tear 1 or two steps it's very unlikely you will get in.

It pays you in one hand and takes it from the other IMO.

Re tier 1 - is that this list?

Farmland habitat (private Natura sites);
Farmland birds (Twite, Breeding Waders, Chough, Geese/Swans, Corncrake, Grey Partridge, Hen Harrier);
Commonages (50% minimum participation in GLAS Commonage Management Plan);
High status water area;
Rare breeds.

Even if you did feel you could apply, I wonder how much a planner would cost, both for the initial plan and is there an annual planner cost?
That'd make it even less attractive again...

cuculainn

what constitutes a traditional hay meadow??

Mad4simmental

Username John wrote: »

Re tier 1 - is that this list?



Even if you did feel you could apply, I wonder how much a planner would cost, both for the initial plan and is there an annual planner cost?
That'd make it even less attractive again...

Ya that's it. They reckon 48,000 farmers, farms adjesnt to a critical water corse. They will get priority and nearly fill the 50,000 limit by themselves!

Connemara Farmer

Username John wrote: »

Re tier 1 - is that this list?



Even if you did feel you could apply, I wonder how much a planner would cost, both for the initial plan and is there an annual planner cost?
That'd make it even less attractive again...

For the commonage lads, Paul Dillon of the Dept told the joint oireachteas committee "a large chunk of the €120 for GLAS is for paying the advisor"

Relegated to phone so can't quite get the copying and pasting working right.

Mad4simmental

cuculainn wrote: »

what constitutes a traditional hay meadow??

You cannot mow the field until June/July (and they will be inspecting)

Must have sum old varietys that farmers are trying to get rid of for years.

Must not contain much clover or you will get a %50 fine. (Which IMO is madness because if you leave an old swart with bugger all fert ect it will naturally start to produce clover.)

You can reseed, min till preferred but they hate rye grasses or any Italian grasses and they won't comply.

Trad breeds are a no go unless you have been in the society for the last two years.

Username John

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Ya that's it. They reckon 48,000 farmers, farms adjesnt to a critical water corse. They will get priority and nearly fill the 50,000 limit by themselves!

So hows it supposed to work in terms of applying, and paying for the planner?

If you apply, don't get in, does the planner still expect to get paid?

That would mean that if you aren't sure if you'll get in (which I read as if you're not in Tier 1) then don't bother getting a planner, and potentially bringing expense on yerself.

The more I read, the more I see this as a non-runner for me anyways...

Mad4simmental

Username John wrote: »

No of you have tier one or a number of tier two options and apply you shouldn't have to pay unless you get in.
(That's what I was told)
If you are sucsefull on getting in that's when you organise the planner and payment ect.

The opening date is not set in stone yet, but early/mid jan is what they think with a late April close date.

The way I see it is if you are not in a tier one it won't do you wonders. If you are you get payed a small amount for the pleasure of more inspections and be told how to farm.

Limestone Cowboy

Mad4simmental wrote: »

You cannot mow the field until June/July (and they will be inspecting)

Must have sum old varietys that farmers are trying to get rid of for years.

Must not contain much clover or you will get a %50 fine. (Which IMO is madness because if you leave an old swart with bugger all fert ect it will naturally start to produce clover.)

You can reseed, min till preferred but they hate rye grasses or any Italian grasses and they won't comply.

Trad breeds are a no go unless you have been in the society for the last two years.

50% fine 😧, I wonder is it across the board like reps 4 was if you got a fine or just Glas itself..

Farmer Pudsey

With Glas you will have to try to pick measures that you need. I have about 3.5HA of marshy land or land that there is a for on. I try to get this into semi natural grass land. After that I have a hedge to lay and want to plant a bit of hedging around yard. After that I do the Bees, bird and bat boxes. Doing some quick calculation I may be able to get to about 2500. However if grassland option fails I forget about it.

Capercaille

Mad4simmental wrote: »

You cannot mow the field until June/July (and they will be inspecting)

Must have sum old varietys that farmers are trying to get rid of for years.

Must not contain much clover or you will get a %50 fine. (Which IMO is madness because if you leave an old swart with bugger all fert ect it will naturally start to produce clover.)

You can reseed, min till preferred but they hate rye grasses or any Italian grasses and they won't comply.

Trad breeds are a no go unless you have been in the society for the last two years.

What is the problem with the clover??

Mad4simmental

Capercaille wrote: »

What is the problem with the clover??

I don't know it dosnt make much sence to me! It's got to do with the meadow grass.

Capercaille

Mad4simmental wrote: »

I don't know it dosnt make much sence to me! It's got to do with the meadow grass.

Maybe if the meadow has just one species of clover. If you had mixed species of white/red clover it would be strange to get fined. Would you have a link?

smokey-fitz

Mad4simmental wrote: »

I don't know it dosnt make much sence to me! It's got to do with the meadow grass.

Need 5 different varieties of meadow grass along with 5 different types of weeds too..

Mad4simmental

Capercaille wrote: »

Maybe if the meadow has just one species of clover. If you had mixed species of white/red clover it would be strange to get fined. Would you have a link?

No link just going off the meeting with our advisor last night.

Capercaille

smokey-fitz wrote: »

Need 5 different varieties of meadow grass along with 5 different types of weeds too..

How can you prove you have the correct numbers of species?

Lano Lynn

glas is bulls1t,

the dept just took AEOS cut the money available and made a planner mandatory.and then some bright spark threw in the commonage rules to top it off.

I drew up my own aeos plan and see no reason why I could not do it again?
uk stewardship schemes much more straightforward and no mandatory parasite


not so much a licence to print money as money to print licences:mad:

Giving Loads of Arigead to Shysters.