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Can a steel beam span a 40 foot distance

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  • 03-12-2014 10:06pm
    #1
    Sea point
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭


    I wanted to know if it's possible to span a 40 foot distance for a residential build with steel beams with no intermediate support columns ? It will hold the loaf of single story and flat roof on the steel beams.


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    #2
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,748 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Yes it is...but only a structural engineer should/could advise you as to the type/size of beam and associated columns.

    Mod Note: You might read 1.5 of the Forum Charter. No further specifics can be given on this!


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    #3
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Sea point wrote: »
    I wanted to know if it's possible to span a 40 foot distance for a residential build with steel beams with no intermediate support columns ? It will hold the loaf of single story and flat roof on the steel beams.

    Yep, 100% it can. Seen one the other day. Quite deep beam and then reinforced with 25mm plates in the centre of the span.

    But, it needs to be designed, it may even need to be 2 beams bolted together and then plated underneath to add additional support.

    Go to an Engineer, this is one place you don't want to take a chance with.


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    #4
    Sea point
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Sea point


    If the beam is very deep due to the width of the span, does the depth of the beam cause problems in building ?


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    #5
    Cedrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Cedrus


    Sea point wrote: »
    If the beam is very deep due to the width of the span, does the depth of the beam cause problems in building ?

    Not if it's properly designed by BOTH the structural engineer and the architect. I've seen a couple that were a waste of time, you free up the space in one area, you pay for it in another.


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    #6
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Sea point wrote: »
    If the beam is very deep due to the width of the span, does the depth of the beam cause problems in building ?

    It depends on location. Most of the time it can be erected up into the wall but this requires extra work and will cost more in labour and support props etc

    Just depends on budget. As said above this is where the engineer and architect need to communicate their ideas to each other.


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    #7
    Drift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭Drift


    Don't forget it will be expensive! I've seen a lot of people who want big open spaces and huge spans but want it for the same price as 3 foot door ope with a lintel!


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    #8
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    We're on a build with a 10m span atmo. We've done 13m before - in timber ! Big mo' that one !

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #9
    kieran.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭kieran.


    As galwaytt has said it can be done I've seen 12-13m spans myself but if you go this route be prepared for a beam approx 1m deep if steel and the a cost of Approx €500/m plus cranage for the beam itself.


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    #10
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,076 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    kieran. wrote: »
    As galwaytt has said it can be done I've seen 12-13m spans myself but if you go this route be prepared for a beam approx 1m deep if steel and the a cost of Approx €500/m plus cranage for the beam itself.

    :eek::eek::eek::eek:

    whats that holding up ? an airport?

    without getting structural, but the vast majority of domestic applications of a steel to span that distance wouldnt be anywhere near that size.


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    #11
    kieran.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭kieran.


    In the instance I described it was a hotel the beam was spanning the main function room and it was supporting the first floor. 914 deep to be exact.... engineers they like um' big.:)


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    #12
    kieran.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭kieran.


    without getting to technical when you get in beams that size the issue is deflection under there own weight over the large span and also the effect of vibrations/frequency.


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    #13
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,076 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    kieran. wrote: »
    In the instance I described it was a hotel the beam was spanning the main function room and it was supporting the first floor. 914 deep to be exact.... engineers they like um' big.:)

    thats a big one alright!!!

    you wouldnt have two lads trying to gunther that up a ladder :P


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    #14
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    I just had a beam installed, 9m span, holding the upper story of the house. appox 30cm high and deep.. approx....


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    #15
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Sea point wrote: »
    I wanted to know if it's possible to span a 40 foot distance for a residential build with steel beams with no intermediate support columns ? It will hold the loaf of single story and flat roof on the steel beams.
    have your engineer check out Glulam might be cheaper more attractive option


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    #16
    hexosan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭hexosan


    Since we're all measuring here I had mine installed 10m 357x171 from memory


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    #17
    ht9zni1gs28crp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    BryanF wrote: »
    have your engineer check out Glulam might be cheaper more attractive option

    Not ideal if fire protection/integrity is needed.


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    #18
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Sea point wrote: »
    I wanted to knowif it's possible to span a 40 foot distance for a residential build with steel beams with no intermediate support columns ? It will hold the loaf of single story and flat roof on the steel beams.
    miller_63 wrote: »
    Not ideal if fire protection/integrity is needed.
    agreed, but I'm assuming this is a domestic house. That said I can think of several Irish public buildings with glulam beams


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    #19
    Sea point
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Sea point


    Thanks for all the information and comments. Yes it is in a domestic house. It is spanning a garden area underneath with one floor above it.......


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    #20
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Esmeralda Chilly Lounge wrote: »
    Not ideal if fire protection/integrity is needed.


    Timber has the advantage of not needing intumescent costings for fire.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #21
    ht9zni1gs28crp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    Glulam under review since this happened. Contract I am working on... Fire was that intense it even warped the re bar in the founds, its a total dig up and start again.

    http://www.nce.co.uk/news/structures/nottingham-university-fire-investigation-starts/8669712.article


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    #22
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    Esmeralda Chilly Lounge wrote: »
    Glulam under review since this happened. Contract I am working on... Fire was that intense it even warped the re bar in the founds, its a total dig up and start again.

    http://www.nce.co.uk/news/structures/nottingham-university-fire-investigation-starts/8669712.article

    But why would Glulam be any better in this situation..??!!


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    #23
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Esmeralda Chilly Lounge wrote: »
    Glulam under review since this happened. Contract I am working on... Fire was that intense it even warped the re bar in the founds, its a total dig up and start again.

    http://www.nce.co.uk/news/structures/nottingham-university-fire-investigation-starts/8669712.article

    Can't see that article, it's looking for a sign in.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #24
    ht9zni1gs28crp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    But why would Glulam be any better in this situation..??!!

    Its not, that's what the building was built in originally before the fire to achieve a carbon neutral building.


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    #25
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Esmeralda Chilly Lounge wrote: »
    Its not, that's what the building was built in originally before the fire to achieve a carbon neutral building.

    Steel is not better than Glulam. Nor steel worse. It's not that simple.

    Under conditions of heat steel buckles, whereas timber chars.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #26
    ht9zni1gs28crp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Steel is not better than Glulam. Nor steel worse. It's not that simple.

    Under conditions of heat steel buckles, whereas timber chars.

    Not arguing case between steel v timber, just highlighting the Glulam phenomena is not all its cracked up to be.

    Steel fails at 550deg approx, and that's catastrophic failure in building collapse terms.

    Timber chars and sheds repeatedly until total failure hence can hold a building up longer under fire conditions than steel


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    #27
    D_D
    Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭D_D


    Esmeralda Chilly Lounge wrote: »
    Not arguing case between steel v timber, just highlighting the Glulam phenomena is not all its cracked up to be.

    Steel fails at 550deg approx, and that's catastrophic failure in building collapse terms.

    Timber chars and sheds repeatedly until total failure hence can hold a building up longer under fire conditions than steel

    Just going to chime in here, I'm a structural engineer myself, and when people discuss wood vs. steel in fires, I usually point them to this photo to show how each material works in fire;

    http://www.benfieldatt.co.uk/var/batt/storage/images-versioned/5891/1-eng-GB/glulam_association_timber_in_fire1_large.jpg

    The steel can completely fail whereas the timber can char and save itself.

    Just thought I'd throw it in for my 2c.


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