Monument of an ATM in local shop

heldel00

Really getting fed up with the shop in nearest town to me.
1. They close up the ATM about four hours before the shop closes.
2. They only dispense €50 notes. (Not ideal the day before payday!)
3. The fecking thing is constantly out of service. (Next machine is 5miles away!)

At least twice a week when I call in its not working and THEN they have the audacity to tell you, when you go to get cash back at till, that minimum spend is €10. Shop's problem that machine not working so minimum spend should not apply. I reckon it's a bit of a ploy by the shop to boost profits.

Yes I understand the costs to the shop with regards to cash back but if you take on having an ATM in your shop, then have the fecking thing up and running!!!

Just me that this seriously irks or anyone else?

Celly Smunt

Same with my own,Centra by any chance?

heldel00

YES! They encourage everyone to shop local but to be honest this really puts me off!

dav32cs

Sounds like they are using it to lower the banking costs by putting their cash into the ATM and dispensing it that way rather than get hit with the charges by lodging the same amount through their account(not sure how much of a difference between lodgement charges and doing it this way though). Explains why it's only 50s(just putting their excess in and not the lower denominations which they need to give change to people) and why it might be out of order half the time(waiting for a lodgement day to put the excess in). Not really sure about closing it 4 hours before they close though, unless whatever money they have in it is counted in their floats so they have it counted up early to avoid having to do it closer to close time.

The €10 minimum cash back thing is pretty common, they'll get charged a fee for putting through the 'sale' if they just give out cash back for anyone so not a very good business model if you're going to pay a fee for a transaction just to give the customer money to walk right out of your store and spend it somewhere else.

Spocker

dav32cs wrote: »

Sounds like they are using it to lower the banking costs by putting their cash into the ATM and dispensing it that way rather than get hit with the charges by lodging the same amount through their account(not sure how much of a difference between lodgement charges and doing it this way though). Explains why it's only 50s(just putting their excess in and not the lower denominations which they need to give change to people) and why it might be out of order half the time(waiting for a lodgement day to put the excess in). Not really sure about closing it 4 hours before they close though, unless whatever money they have in it is counted in their floats so they have it counted up early to avoid having to do it closer to close time.

I would highly doubt that the shop owners have any access at all to fill the ATM machine, as they are managed by the banks

heldel00

Spocker wrote: »

I would highly doubt that the shop owners have any access at all to fill the ATM machine, as they are managed by the banks

Of course they have access. It's a free standing machine inside the shop that they manage themselves

heldel00

dav32cs wrote: »

The €10 minimum cash back thing is pretty common, they'll get charged a fee for putting through the 'sale' if they just give out cash back for anyone so not a very good business model if you're going to pay a fee for a transaction just to give the customer money to walk right out of your store and spend it somewhere else.

I can totally understand shops that do not have a cash machine and provide a "cash back" service charging a €10 minimum but don't agree with anyplace that draws people in by advertising that they have an ATM and then hoist this on people. Machine not working is their problem and should not be an issue for customer

h2005

Spocker wrote: »

I would highly doubt that the shop owners have any access at all to fill the ATM machine, as they are managed by the banks

You'd be wrong. The shops themselves fill the ATMs.

lycan238

I feel your pain. We are lucky where we are we have an ATM outside our local bank and 2 shops that have an ATM in them. The ATM machines in the shops normally (99% of time) will only disperse €50 notes. Any shop which offers cashback set an amount that you have to spend before using your card but normally will ignore this if you are close to it ie you must spend €10 before using your card I spend €8.99 I can use my card to pay for shopping but if I spend €0.99 I cant use my card.

On the other side of that particular coin I am aware of a shop that will allow me to spend a very small amount of money <€1 and get cashback to allow me to do the lotto as they dont accept lotto transactions on cards. (that shop was actually very handy when I was at college.)

heldel00

No this place is very strict that at least 10 has to be spent. I usually end up buying dog food or something that I don't need in a panic because when I go in to use the "monument" I'm always on way to somewhere and am usually late!
Would there be any point in alerting the bank to this? I'm sure they want their machines to be put to best use?
Had a discussion with the shop owner but he just a greedy dick so that was pointless.
We have had nights out where we have been going into local pub, no cash on us, stop at centra to use ATM, the door swinging open on it where he is after emptying it/ out of service, back into car, drive 5miles to next town, get cash, drive back to our local! Could waste a half hour of quality drinking time!

lycan238

Ah ok I think shops that I frequent would rather get a sale of €8.99 (minus bank charges for transaction) instead of you walking out of store having spent nothing.

That of course does not answer your query regarding the 'monument' within your local store. While I agree that it is causing you an inconvenience would taking your complaint to the bank lead to the ATM being removed completely therefore you would have to drive the 5 miles to the next town anyway to get money. One suggestion would be that if it was possible go into the store earlier in the day when you know the ATM is likely to be working. Feel free to bring this to the banks attention if you feel that taking that step is necessary. like I mentioned above we have 3 ATM's in my local town so I rarely ever have that problem.

heldel00

lycan238 wrote: »

One suggestion would be that if it was possible go into the store earlier in the day when you know the ATM is likely to be working.

Ah sure look it everytime I go in and see the screen winking "out of service" teasingly at me I ask myself "why oh why heldel00 did you not go in on the way to work/ party/ pub ..." but I'm afraid I'm just not one of those organised people and have resigned myself to the fact that I never will be!

lycan238

heldel00 wrote: »

but I'm afraid I'm just not one of those organised people and have resigned myself to the fact that I never will be!

Sure even I try to be organised by not letting my cash in my wallet get below a certain amount but sometimes even I fail to do this. If I have to go to a shop that either does not take cards completely or has a limit that I wont reach I use said cash and replace when I can.

Spocker

h2005 wrote: »

You'd be wrong. The shops themselves fill the ATMs.

I stand corrected

heldel00

Lycan238 I think I need you to be my lifecoach!!!

dav32cs

heldel00 wrote: »

I can totally understand shops that do not have a cash machine and provide a "cash back" service charging a €10 minimum but don't agree with anyplace that draws people in by advertising that they have an ATM and then hoist this on people. Machine not working is their problem and should not be an issue for customer

Business people are business people and I'd find with franchise shops like Centra the owners are particularly greedy. I'd imagine they view the ATM more as a benefit to themselves to reduce the charges rather than viewing it as a benefit or service to the customer.

They are thinking if the person is spending in the shop they can put it on their card at the till and probably that people looking for cash out of the ATM aren't going to spend it with them anyways so they are probably not too bothered about addressing any issues with the availability of it unfortunately.

dav32cs

Spocker wrote: »

I would highly doubt that the shop owners have any access at all to fill the ATM machine, as they are managed by the banks

If you're ever there by chance when they're doing it you'll see they just open it and they slide out the boxes and bring them out the back. Seen it being done at a shop here just about 10 mins before close so not sure if they were just filling it with the excess at the end of the day or are they bringing them up to a more secure location for the night.

Any of the secure in wall ones are bank ones, I'd imagine the freestanding units the majority of the upkeep is done through the shop and maybe the banks would do occasional check ups or servicing. Not sure if they are done on a lease basis or are they actually bought straight out by the shops though.

Murray007

The issue is that private companies are providing a service that the banks should be offering their customers.

In border area Cavan where I live there were three branches of the ulster bank in towns around us, now there is one.

I took 10 pounds out of at ATM in a Northern border town 7 miles from us and was charged 3 pounds for the transaction. No warning on the machine, I challenged it afterwards in the shop and after 15 minutes of argy bargy they refunded me.

Charging routinely will become the norm soon. This is after the banks moving us us all to cards.

Stheno

Spocker wrote: »

I would highly doubt that the shop owners have any access at all to fill the ATM machine, as they are managed by the banks

It's actually a security feature shops with atms signed up for, means they don't hold easily accessible cash on the premises and don't have to risk late night business lodgements.

They have full access to the atms, but if they run out of cash the atm remains unfilled.

Sam Mac

h2005 wrote: »

You'd be wrong. The shops themselves fill the ATMs.

Never knew that. I have seen those security money vans outside my local shop a good few times. You learn something new everyday!

CollyFlower

Never knew that the stores were responsible for the ATm's I always thought that the banks looked after them, like the Cadbury /Roundtree sweet machines.

jimmycrackcorm

heldel00 wrote:

Really getting fed up with the shop in nearest town to me. 1. They close up the ATM about four hours before the shop closes. 2. They only dispense €50 notes. (Not ideal the day before payday!) 3. The fecking thing is constantly out of service. (Next machine is 5miles away!)

I don't understand what your issue is.
1. They're not a bank
2. You know each transaction costs you so you should use it for larger amounts
3. Its the staff in the shop who have to fill it and they won't always he able to fill it regularly with a €1000 for every 20 customers who take out a minimum of 50

I do feel your pain though having once lived in a small village with no ATM and having to travel 20km to the nearest town to get money out. However I tend to use my debit card and get cash back. I just make sure I need to get enough stuff to justify the €10 min spend. The reason for that is because of the transaction charges otherwise you would have to pay a transaction fee like mobile top ups.

delahuntv

Machine is managed by the store.

The store makes no charge for the service.

The store provides the service to a small local community and seems not to be a store with big volume.

By putting €20 & €10 notes into the atm, it leaves the store short of €20 & €10 notes for their customers and the store would have to "buy" these from the bank. Banks charge business for buying coin & notes - coin is up to €1.40 per €100 and notes are up to 60c per €100.

Most of the "customers" taking the money out of the atm are probably spending that money elsewhere.

So as you can see, the store is providing a service where no bank or any other store will do so. So instead of whining, maybe be very grateful that such a service exists. In the UK stores charge up to £2 fo wothdrawals, in USA the charge is up to $4 - here its free.

heldel00

delahuntv wrote: »

So as you can see, the store is providing a service where no bank or any other store will do so. So instead of whining, maybe be very grateful that such a service exists. In the UK stores charge up to £2 fo wothdrawals, in USA the charge is up to $4 - here its free.

The store is a fairly large store but my issue and reason for the whining is that they have signs up everywhere advertising that they have an ATM in-store which draws people in. it undoubtedly is a handy service to have for locals and passing trade but they are advertising a service and are not fulfilling the commitment they signed up to. This is what bugs me.
Put up a sign saying "ATM available between 9am and 3pm" or whatever crazy finishing up time the owner decides to empty the machine rather than people spending minutes trying to get parked, taking kids out of car, dragging them into shop and in the end to see "out of service" on the screen.

heldel00

delahuntv wrote: »

Machine is managed by the store.

The store makes no charge for the service.

The store provides the service to a small local community and seems not to be a store with big volume.

By putting €20 & €10 notes into the atm, it leaves the store short of €20 & €10 notes for their customers and the store would have to "buy" these from the bank. Banks charge business for buying coin & notes - coin is up to €1.40 per €100 and notes are up to 60c per €100.

Most of the "customers" taking the money out of the atm are probably spending that money elsewhere.

I should have clarified that the dispensing of only 50 notes is not really my issue but that they have no sign up informing people of this. Grand for me because I know that 50 is all it will give. But for the strangers passing through the town who don't know this and they key in eg: €70 and the machine makes all the whirrs and clatters as if it is going to dispense that amount, only for the card to be spat back out, no money in the slot, confused face on user, they try it again, same problem, have to question a member of staff as to where their money is and all the while I'm about to squeal behind them.
(And before anyone suggests that I should advise people as to how our local "monument" works, people are wary at cash machines and someone lurking behind them offering advice on how much they should withdraw, can be met with hostility. It has happened.)
Have told staff member that it might be an idea for owner to stick up a little sign and she laughed and said "do you think he'd be out the price of the paper and ink!"

Bazzo

To play Devil's advocate: years ago I used to work in a shop with an ATM. We had to fill it ourselves with whatever cash we had, and it was withdrawn UNBELIEVABLY quickly, we're talking thousands a day. A lot of the time when the machine was out of service it was because we simply didn't have the cash to put in it.

Slunk

A few places I go to regularly charge my card €10 but if I only spend a fiver they give me a fiver from the til. Pub does it a lot for me when I go for lunch at 7.95 and I've no cash. Charge my card and give me 2.05 cash change. Better that than lose business.

heldel00

Slunk wrote: »

A few places I go to regularly charge my card €10 but if I only spend a fiver they give me a fiver from the til. Pub does it a lot for me when I go for lunch at 7.95 and I've no cash. Charge my card and give me 2.05 cash change. Better that than lose business.

That is what local shops/pubs etc should do and especially if the machine is not working. Gestures like that are appreciated but no such joy with our "Scrooge"

dozy doctor

Spocker wrote: »

I would highly doubt that the shop owners have any access at all to fill the ATM machine, as they are managed by the banks

Not true... I used to run service stations with BOI ATM's installed and we used to fill up the machine in order to cut or lodgement fees with the bank....

Yawns

If you're paying by debit card, the shops can't actually make you pay a minimum charge. They'll tell you it's store policy, but the agreement they have with Visa for the card machine actually stipulates no minimum spend required. Contact Visa with the store name and address with your complaint and they'll be in touch with them.

ScouseMouse

Yawns wrote: »

If you're paying by debit card, the shops can't actually make you pay a minimum charge. They'll tell you it's store policy, but the agreement they have with Visa for the card machine actually stipulates no minimum spend required. Contact Visa with the store name and address with your complaint and they'll be in touch with them.

And then the store can exercise their right not to serve you, or maybe the machine is out of order...

Straylight

Yawns wrote: »

If you're paying by debit card, the shops can't actually make you pay a minimum charge. They'll tell you it's store policy, but the agreement they have with Visa for the card machine actually stipulates no minimum spend required. Contact Visa with the store name and address with your complaint and they'll be in touch with them.

Yep, this is an extract from Pricewatch in the Irish Times of 4/11/13 (no point linking to it as you need a subscription to see it):

The Irish Payment Services Organisation, which oversees all card payments, has a view on this. It says that, when a merchant signs up to accept card payments, its terms and conditions include an “honour-all-cards rule”.

Under this condition, they are required to accept the cards for any payment by holders of the cards they have signed up for.

“In choosing to enforce a minimum charge, the retailer is operating outside of their terms and conditions.

“They can lose their terminal and card payment contract for doing this,” a spokeswoman for the organisation said.

“Any reports of such signs or restrictions in shops that are reported to this office are taken very seriously, and a relationship manager is dispatched to discuss the matter with the shop.”

Might be worth pointing that out to the shop next time they try to make you spend a tenner OP.

fleet_admiral

h2005 wrote: »

You'd be wrong. The shops themselves fill the ATMs.

Spar in Kenilworth have their machine filled by brinks

mfceiling

There's a Spar near me and i'm not making this up...i've seen their machine (aib free standing) and it has been working twice in the last 6 years!!

Serious - i always walk past it and look at it when i'm in there and it's always the same "out of service" on it - morning, noon, or night. I even said it to the shop manager one day. His reply "it's more for decoration now" and then laughed like an eejit!!

heldel00

mfceiling wrote: »

There's a Spar near me and i'm not making this up...i've seen their machine (aib free standing) and it has been working twice in the last 6 years!!

Serious - i always walk past it and look at it when i'm in there and it's always the same "out of service" on it - morning, noon, or night. I even said it to the shop manager one day. His reply "it's more for decoration now" and then laughed like an eejit!!

But can people see where I'm coming from with this? If you advertise that you have a service in your store then fulfill your obligation to your customers and have that service up and running efficiently.
Banks have closed in the more rural towns in Ireland and the local machine not working is the decider for me on whether I go into the local butcher/ grocer/ hardware store etc to spend my money or curse the bejaysus out of the machine and wait until I go to the county town the next day.

Yawns

ScouseMouse wrote: »

And then the store can exercise their right not to serve you, or maybe the machine is out of order...

If you complain to the likes of Visa, they actually take care of it, your name doesn't get passed on to them.

Tbh any shop hat enforces a minimum spend policy doesn't deserve it's customers. If I'm told a minimum spend is €10, then I'm likely to leave it all there and just walk out never to go back. Have done this before, wouldn't hesitate to do so again. Had items for kids lunch the next day and some other items, grand total of €8.20 but told nope. Just picked it up in Lidl later that day and no longer bother with that Super Value again.