Who replaces the following players for Ireland? Post RWC or later.

otbrugby

I've picked 5 players who are all in their 30's and while they may not all be very near the end of their international careers they are certainly on the back end.

2: Rory Best(33) - Cronin? Strauss? Casey? Herring? Other?
3. Mike Ross(35) - White? Moore? Archer? Other?
5: Paul O'Connell(35) - Foley? Henderson? Touhy? Other?
8: Jamie Heaslip(31) - Stander? Conan? Copeland? Other?
12: Gordon Darcy(35) - Olding? McCloskey? Marshall? Madigan? Other?

pmasterson95

Heaslip could go on surely?

Pudsy33

2. Any and all of those mentioned will be involved. All good players. No worries there.

3. Moore is the future.

5. Huge loss of leadership but plenty of good players. Hendo will be huge for us.

8. Tough one. Copeland short term, Conan longer term?

12. One of the Ulster boys.

otbrugby

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Heaslip could go on surely?

i'm not saying he won't go on past the RWC because he certainly will but this is a hypothetical scenario, humor me even if Heaslip doesn't bow out fully until 2016/2017.

Riskymove

otbrugby wrote: »

2: Rory Best(33)

still has a few years left

Cronin and Strauss not far behind and Casey a good prospect

this is a position we have good depth in

3. Mike Ross(35)

still the most difficult to call

If anyone was at the required level he'd be playing half the time he is a present

I guess most of the hope is for Moore

White and Archer not up to the same level but will give 100%

5: Paul O'Connell(35)

The next BOD like figure to go....no one can replace all he represents

As for the position generally I think any of the 3 you mention can do the job

8: Jamie Heaslip(31)

I don't think we need to worry until the 2019 RWC frankly

Stander when qualified could be a good option and Conan shows a lot of potential

Copeland also playing well

12: Gordon Darcy(35)

Olding has to be the hope here given the potential most see in him

otbrugby

Can't see Best remaining first choice as he enters 34/35 so I personally don't think he has a few years left.

Heaslip to remain 1st choice until 2019? He will be 35 by then.. maybe but i'm not so sure.

Clegg

Heaslip can go for another 3 years easily. He's the least injury prone forward in Irish rugby and takes remarkably good care of himself. But as for his eventual replacement its probably one of Stander or Conan. Harder for Conan as he has to force his way past Heaslip at provincial level too.

D'arcy's replacement really depends on who Schmidt sees as his 13 going forward. If it's Payne then you'd have to guess that Henshaw will partner him if you look at AI selections. I'd like to see Olding get his chance too.

Neil3030

Furlong will be our TH at the 2019 WC and I really think Conan could well be our 8.

Second row id lean toward Henderson and all going well Olding and Henshaw will form a long term partnership in midfield. I'm hoping the ceiling is high for Casey but i suspect another contender will emerge.... Maybe byrne?

A nod to POM and Sexton aswell as the spiritual if not positional successors to POC.

CatFromHue

The Olding thing is the same as it's been all season. How can he really compete to be an Ireland starter in a position he doesn't really play at club level.

vienne86

CatFromHue wrote: »

The Olding thing is the same as it's been all season. How can he really compete to be an Ireland starter in a position he doesn't really play at club level.

Very tricky one - I really fancy Olding/Henshaw midfield.

stephen_n

CatFromHue wrote: »

The Olding thing is the same as it's been all season. How can he really compete to be an Ireland starter in a position he doesn't really play at club level.

Considering the length of his lay off before the season started, it's hard to say he won't be first choice 12 for Ulster by the end of the season, also considering we started against SA with a 12 who had never played there, if you're good enough to be in the team, you will be.

Fireball07

otbrugby wrote: »

I've picked 5 players who are all in their 30's and while they may not all be very near the end of their international careers they are certainly on the back end.


8: Jamie Heaslip(31) - Stander? Conan? Copeland? Other?

Heaslip will definitely go for another 4 years after the World Cup, you'd think. Will he be as good? I don't know.

But I think the timeframe definitely suits JOD if he can fulfil his potential. Very classy player.

bilston

otbrugby wrote: »

I've picked 5 players who are all in their 30's and while they may not all be very near the end of their international careers they are certainly on the back end.

2: Rory Best(33) - Cronin? Strauss? Casey? Herring? Other?
3. Mike Ross(35) - White? Moore? Archer? Other?
5: Paul O'Connell(35) - Foley? Henderson? Touhy? Other?
8: Jamie Heaslip(31) - Stander? Conan? Copeland? Other?
12: Gordon Darcy(35) - Olding? McCloskey? Marshall? Madigan? Other?

I know he has just signed a long term contract with the IRFU but Tommy will be 35 at the 2019 WC which is pretty old for a winger, that said he has never been about raw pace so he may have more years in him than we might think.

otbrugby

bilston wrote: »

I know he has just signed a long term contract with the IRFU but Tommy will be 35 at the 2019 WC which is pretty old for a winger, that said he has never been about raw pace so he may have more years in him than we might think.

Considered putting him in but with the large amount of options at the position I didn't..

Doubt Tommy will be starting at 35 in that WC.

otbrugby

Fireball07 wrote: »

Heaslip will definitely go for another 4 years after the World Cup, you'd think. Will he be as good? I don't know.

But I think the timeframe definitely suits JOD if he can fulfil his potential. Very classy player.

In 4 years will Heaslip still be at Leinster? I don't know.. Conan will be 24 when Heaslip's next contract is up and will be ready to step in IMO.

JOD is a very good talent but the list of top level international number 8's who are 6'2 is quite small. Not saying it's not going to happen but it's a doubt.

themountainman

I think Best is OK for another while and Cronin and Strauss are decent backups.

White will fill a gap at tighthead along with Moore who will hopefully be around for a long while.

Heaslip will play on but can't see a natural successor. Same with O'Connell who surely can't go on too much longer.

molloyjh

otbrugby wrote: »

I've picked 5 players who are all in their 30's and while they may not all be very near the end of their international careers they are certainly on the back end.

2: Rory Best(33) - Cronin? Strauss? Casey? Herring? Other?
3. Mike Ross(35) - White? Moore? Archer? Other?
5: Paul O'Connell(35) - Foley? Henderson? Touhy? Other?
8: Jamie Heaslip(31) - Stander? Conan? Copeland? Other?
12: Gordon Darcy(35) - Olding? McCloskey? Marshall? Madigan? Other?

Cronin, Strauss and Casey will all be capable of taking over from Best. I think it'll be either Strauss or Casey personally.

Moore is currently number 2 TH, but I honestly think Furlong will really push him at Leinster. He's the real deal this guy and I can see him as the future TH for Ireland.

Henderson or Foley in for POC. Probably Hendo, especially given Foleys age.

Stander and Conan the main options at 8 as things stand.

Olding or McCloskey for 12 as far as I'm concerned, but as others have said this could be dictated but who plays 13. Henshaw-Payne looked good against SA. I wouldn't write that off.

The great news there is the depth we have in pretty much every position.

awec

otbrugby wrote: »

I've picked 5 players who are all in their 30's and while they may not all be very near the end of their international careers they are certainly on the back end.

2: Rory Best(33) - Cronin? Strauss? Casey? Herring? Other?
3. Mike Ross(35) - White? Moore? Archer? Other?
5: Paul O'Connell(35) - Foley? Henderson? Touhy? Other?
8: Jamie Heaslip(31) - Stander? Conan? Copeland? Other?
12: Gordon Darcy(35) - Olding? McCloskey? Marshall? Madigan? Other?

Best - has another few years yet. Still comfortably the best hooker we have, not at risk of losing his first place spot anytime soon unless his form absolutely falls off a cliff. Either way, we have plenty of cover here.

Ross - probably has another season in the tank at most, but preferably not as first choice. Moore I think will be the man. Unsure on White, very unconvinced by Archer.

O'Connell - his leadership will be a bigger loss than his actual play, which is not a slight on him. Leadership more difficult to replace. Henderson and Foley though - no worries there long term. Tuohy a more short term option if needed.

Heaslip - the guy is a freak. Probably play til he's 45 or something. Conan looks like a good successor but Conan is also behind Heaslip at Leinster, and if Heaslip remains Ireland's first choice 8 then he'll surely be Leinster's first choice too. Stander another good shout.

D'Arcy - easy. Olding, Marshall, McCloskey. Ulster have a few more top prospects in the acadamy too by all accounts. Take your pick.

case885

otbrugby wrote: »

In 4 years will Heaslip still be at Leinster? I don't know.. Conan will be 24 when Heaslip's next contract is up and will be ready to step in IMO.

JOD is a very good talent but the list of top level international number 8's who are 6'2 is quite small. Not saying it's not going to happen but it's a doubt.

Stander is 6'2 and runs over plenty men. I think gaining weight is what JOD will be concentrating on.

otbrugby

case885 wrote: »

Stander is 6'2 and runs over plenty men. I think gaining weight is what JOD will be concentrating on.

yeah and Stander has a way different build than JOD.. anyone can see that they are incomparable despite being the same height.
also Stander is hardly a proven top international number 8, although he has been very good this year.

Stan27

All the talk about Conan. I think it's an obvious answer (up to him of course) but Conan an connacht would get heaps of first team rughy. And a very big step closer to the international team. People have to see connacht as a real option now.

errlloyd

Heaslip will play the next world cup.

otbrugby

Stan27 wrote: »

All the talk about Conan. I think it's an obvious answer (up to him of course) but Conan an connacht would get heaps of first team rughy. And a very big step closer to the international team. People have to see connacht as a real option now.

yeah leinster should just give all their talented young players to connacht.

otbrugby

errlloyd wrote: »

Heaslip will play the next world cup.

again he will almost be 36. It's possible he is still playing but I think its unlikely. Heaslip doesn't strike me as they type who will play into his mid 30's especially if his standards start to drop, type of lad with other interests too.

Blue giant

otbrugby wrote: »

yeah leinster should just give all their talented young players to connacht.

And yet many Leinster fans think Henshaw and Marmion should move to Leinster :rolleyes:

otbrugby

Blue giant wrote: »

And yet many Leinster fans think Henshaw and Marmion should move to Leinster :rolleyes:

Not I.

Now I might consider a swap of Conan for Henshaw but even though i'd be reluctant.

CatFromHue

Conan could well end up getting a good bit of game time this season.

I can see him playing in 2 of the Pro12 games between the ERC games, then there's 4 games during the 6N he'll be in the running for, and prob another 2 after that.

So he could well end up at the end of the season with around 12 starts for Leinster this season. If he gets around that much I can't see him moving for next season as he'll get the same again, if not more, then.

errlloyd

I can see Ireland enforcing some player welfare in the last few league games of the season too, with the world cup etc.

otbrugby

CatFromHue wrote: »

Conan could well end up getting a good bit of game time this season.

I can see him playing in 2 of the Pro12 games between the ERC games, then there's 4 games during the 6N he'll be in the running for, and prob another 2 after that.

So he could well end up at the end of the season with around 12 starts for Leinster this season. If he gets around that much I can't see him moving for next season as he'll get the same again, if not more, then.

He has a contract into next season anyway.
No way Leinster are going to let one of the more young talented players leave after promoting him from the academy early too.
If Connacht want a backrow they should look at Coghlan.
Then again their academy is full of leinster schools and clubs backrows.

CatFromHue

otbrugby wrote: »

Then again their academy is full of leinster schools and clubs backrows.

and more power to them for making a go of it.

otbrugby

CatFromHue wrote: »

and more power to them for making a go of it.

not saying there is anything wrong with it.. hope the lads who got a shot over there make it.. the more good irish rugby players the better in my eyes.

Stan27

otbrugby wrote: »

yeah leinster should just give all their talented young players to connacht.

Nope not all.
Just one maybe bit this season but Conan last season in connacht in a 1 year loan. Then back to leinster.

its_phil

Stan27 wrote: »

All the talk about Conan. I think it's an obvious answer (up to him of course) but Conan an connacht would get heaps of first team rughy. And a very big step closer to the international team. People have to see connacht as a real option now.

He'd be welcome competition for McKeon but if Naoupu gets a contract renewal then it might not be the best choice for Conan. I've massive time for him too, impresed with him at schools for Gerards and at Ireland 20's.

otbrugby wrote: »

Not I.

Now I might consider a swap of Conan for Henshaw but even though i'd be reluctant.

No one would do that deal in Connacht and Leinster would thank their lucky stars to get it. Unproven 8 with potential to become an international for an international centre??

Also no need to be so patronising towards Connacht with your comments about the academy.

RedemptionZ

otbrugby wrote: »

yeah and Stander has a way different build than JOD.. anyone can see that they are incomparable despite being the same height.
also Stander is hardly a proven top international number 8, although he has been very good this year.

Even taking into account the difference in builds between the two, 6'2" is quite small for an international 8 and would require a serious amount of athleticism to compensate for the height and inevitable weight difference. 6'4" would be the ideal height and probably somewhere around 110kgs for weight. Any smaller/heavier and you'll start to gas earlier and lose a bit of mobility. Which isn't the end of the world in the Pro 12 but in the 6N or RWC you'd be found out.

I know that might sound like I'm typifying the position too much, but that's the reality of pro rugby, it's headed down the NFL route of body stats. Either you're a freak athlete(think BOD or even SOB) or you fit into the archetype of your position.

DD Mikasa

Garry Ringrose to be our 13 before too long. He'll be ahead of Henshaw and Olding before we know it. Has it all.

case885

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Even taking into account the difference in builds between the two, 6'2" is quite small for an international 8 and would require a serious amount of athleticism to compensate for the height and inevitable weight difference. 6'4" would be the ideal height and probably somewhere around 110kgs for weight. Any smaller/heavier and you'll start to gas earlier and lose a bit of mobility. Which isn't the end of the world in the Pro 12 but in the 6N or RWC you'd be found out.

I know that might sound like I'm typifying the position too much, but that's the reality of pro rugby, it's headed down the NFL route of body stats. Either you're a freak athlete(think BOD or even SOB) or you fit into the archetype of your position.

Stander is 6'2 114 kgs and he would outpace most 8's so no fear there.

RedemptionZ

case885 wrote: »

Stander is 6'2 114 kgs and he would outpace most 8's so no fear there.

It's not about out and out pace. Nobody who is 6'2" 114kgs can sprint on and off for 80 mins. This is why NFL players couldn't convert to rugby without losing a decent amount of strength and speed. He'll gas earlier than someone who was the same weight and 2 inches taller and will have less mobility so his step won't be as good. That's also ignoring the fact that Stander's build is completely different to JOD's.

mfceiling

DD Mikasa wrote: »

Garry Ringrose to be our 13 before too long. He'll be ahead of Henshaw and Olding before we know it. Has it all.

Really?

DD Mikasa

mfceiling wrote: »

Really?

Yep. Nominated as IRB Junior Play of the Year at last World Cup, recently been training with senior national squad and tearing it up for UCD in Division 1A. Graceful runner who can goal kick as a bonus. Will be the Leinster 13 within two years for sure.

When you watch a good bit of AIL rugby some players just jump out. Zebo, Ruddock etc. Conan and Ringrose are in that bracket too. Doesnt always work mind you. One or two have not lived up to their potential but Ringrose will make it.

You disagree?

RedemptionZ

DD Mikasa wrote: »

Yep. Nominated as IRB Junior Play of the Year at last World Cup, recently been training with senior national squad and tearing it up for UCD in Division 1A. Graceful runner who can goal kick as a bonus. Will be the Leinster 13 within two years for sure.

When you watch a good bit of AIL rugby some players just jump out. Zebo, Ruddock etc. Conan and Ringrose are in that bracket too. Doesnt always work mind you. One or two have not lived up to their potential but Ringrose will make it.

You disagree?

That's a huge statement. He's only 19 isn't he? Starting 13 is pretty ambitious for a 21 year old of his size. I think he probably will make it to Leinster at least but will need a little bit longer to get there physically.

the baby bull elephant

DD Mikasa wrote: »

Yep. Nominated as IRB Junior Play of the Year at last World Cup, recently been training with senior national squad and tearing it up for UCD in Division 1A. Graceful runner who can goal kick as a bonus. Will be the Leinster 13 within two years for sure.

When you watch a good bit of AIL rugby some players just jump out. Zebo, Ruddock etc. Conan and Ringrose are in that bracket too. Doesnt always work mind you. One or two have not lived up to their potential but Ringrose will make it.

You disagree?

Eh Jack Dwan for example was training with the senior national squad, will he be our starting secondrow soon or ever? Under 20's in the area are often called in to provide bodies in training.

He's undoubtedly talented but I'd be a bit more sceptical than you of some meteoric rise. I'm doubtful he'll be Leinster's starting 13 in two years while it's not our best position it'll still be tough getting in there. Also while his WC was great his 6N was...underwhelming. It'll be interesting to see how he gets on this year.

DD Mikasa

Well there's little point in predicting the likes of Henshaw and Olding are going to have bright futures, as they have already arrived. I do believe that Ringrose will be in their company in a few years if given time to develop physically.

What ye all make of Stuart McCloskey as another 'emerging' centre? He certainly offers the kind of physicality that is rare in Irish centres. Has looked decent from the limited times I have seen anyway.

The Lost Sheep

DD Mikasa wrote: »

Yep. Nominated as IRB Junior Play of the Year at last World Cup, recently been training with senior national squad and tearing it up for UCD in Division 1A. Graceful runner who can goal kick as a bonus. Will be the Leinster 13 within two years for sure.

When you watch a good bit of AIL rugby some players just jump out. Zebo, Ruddock etc. Conan and Ringrose are in that bracket too. Doesnt always work mind you. One or two have not lived up to their potential but Ringrose will make it.

You disagree?

The training with the senior national side... all academy players do it at one time or another. He will not be the Leinster 13 within 2 years.
Ringrose is potentially good but its way too early to be making predictions on anything like you are

RedemptionZ

DD Mikasa wrote: »

Well there's little point in predicting the likes of Henshaw and Olding are going to have bright futures, as they have already arrived. I do believe that Ringrose will be in their company in a few years if given time to develop physically.

What ye all make of Stuart McCloskey as another 'emerging' centre? He certainly offers the kind of physicality that is rare in Irish centres. Has looked decent from the limited times I have seen anyway.

I've always wondered why this is the case. There are big centres in Irish rugby but none to my knowledge have been international class. James Downey was a big boy but never really got a chance in a green jersey for whatever reason. Call me conservative but I think the 12 should be a similar size to a flanker, like Roberts or Nonu.

RedemptionZ

RedemptionZ wrote: »

I've always wondered why this is the case. There are big centres in Irish rugby but none to my knowledge have been international class. James Downey was a big boy but never really got a chance in a green jersey for whatever reason. Call me conservative but I think the 12 should be a similar size to a flanker, like Roberts or Nonu.

Downey was big but that is just about all tbh. D'Arcy was just a different class, though time has caught up now.

jacothelad

McCloskey at 12 and Farrell at 13 would make a huge pairing. They are both decent prospects.

mfceiling

DD Mikasa wrote: »

Yep. Nominated as IRB Junior Play of the Year at last World Cup, recently been training with senior national squad and tearing it up for UCD in Division 1A. Graceful runner who can goal kick as a bonus. Will be the Leinster 13 within two years for sure.

When you watch a good bit of AIL rugby some players just jump out. Zebo, Ruddock etc. Conan and Ringrose are in that bracket too. Doesnt always work mind you. One or two have not lived up to their potential but Ringrose will make it.

You disagree?

Not saying I disagree but that's a massive statement to make!!

DD Mikasa

Yeah, you're right, but in all sports you see guys who you 'know' are going to make it. IT comes true around half the time!!

case885

jacothelad wrote: »

McCloskey at 12 and Farrell at 13 would make a huge pairing. They are both decent prospects.

Shame Munster didnt sign Farrell, he wont get a look in now being in France.