Room in shared house broken into

rawn · 02-12-2014 11:19pm #1

Just looking for some advice for my brother. He moved into shared accommodation a few months ago. He asked the LL weeks ago to change the bedroom locks as the previous tenant had just moved out the day he moved in so he knew the lock hadn't been changed. Today he went to work, locked his bedroom door and came home to find his bedroom door still locked, but when he went inside it had been ransacked and his ps4 and his phone charger(!?) were gone. He called the landlord, who called the gards (they took a statement but what else can they do). Anyways, the LL said he will be round tomorrow evening to change the locks. Is that not ridiculous though? He's in work at 4pm tomorrow, surely the locks should have been changed today? He feels quite unsafe as well of course, never mind worrying about his TV and other things they might come back for. So I'm just looking for advice about (a) what he (legally) can do about the lock situation and (b) can he asked to opt out of his lease. It's one year fixed term so the quick answer is probably no, but he'd really like to get out of there, all things considering.

Michael D Not Higgins · 03-12-2014 9:39am

I presume he didn't have contents insurance? Was there anyone else in the house while he was at work?

Not much he can do. It's the same as if you had moved into a flat someone had just moved out of. They might still have a set of keys to let themselves in. But so might half a dozen other people. The landlord is not going to change the locks everytime someone moves out (unless they were suspicious of them).

allibastor · 03-12-2014 10:20am

Does your brother have a proof that he asked the landlord to change the locks, such as email, or text or what ever.

If he specifically asked for this to be done before he moved in and it wasn't he may actually have some comeback against the landlord. Not much of a chance but some.

rawn · 03-12-2014 10:46am

allibastor wrote: »

Does your brother have a proof that he asked the landlord to change the locks, such as email, or text or what ever.

If he specifically asked for this to be done before he moved in and it wasn't he may actually have some comeback against the landlord. Not much of a chance but some.

Unfortunately it was all verbal so he knows he can't prove anything. My brother was the last one out of the house, everyone else had already left for work. He was the last one back in but his room was locked so obviously no one else suspected anything. Could have been one of them for all we know! Can he legally get a locksmith to change the locks before he leaves for work today? Seems ridiculous to have to wait till the landlord come around in the evening when my brother isn't even there, therfore leaving the new keys with a housemate...

03-12-2014 10:51am

Sorry to hear about your brother op but it wouldn't be normal for a LL to change locks every time a new person moves in. I've never heard of locks being changed myself in these situations, it would mean changing the locks maybe more than once a year in some houses.

godtabh · 03-12-2014 10:52am

Are you sure the door was used to gain entry? Burglars have been known to use other methods of entry

anonyanony · 03-12-2014 10:58am

Julissa Broad Server wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your brother op but it wouldn't be normal for a LL to change locks every time a new person moves in. I've never heard of locks being changed myself in these situations, it would mean changing the locks maybe more than once a year in some houses.

I always ask for new locks an the front and back doors and get them for security after a robbery a while back, my renters insurance did not cover my stolen good as there was no break in. You don't know how many people have that key.

Internal door lock changes are useless though and would not expect the LL to change, most are basta lock and there is like only 14 keys which you can get down the hardware store. Places I have rented my room door key could open some other house rooms.

Michael D Not Higgins · 03-12-2014 11:01am

anonyanony wrote: »

I always ask for new locks an the front and back doors and get them for security after a robbery a while back, my renters insurance did not cover my stolen good as there was no break in. You don't know how many people have that key.

Internal door lock changes are useless though and would not expect the LL to change, most are basta lock and there is like only 14 keys which you can get down the hardware store. Places I have rented my room door key could open some other house rooms.

Good point, and the landlord certainly won't be changing the front door key in a shared house everytime someone leaves. If it were a 4-bed house, you could have 4 times a year to change the locks, and 4 spare sets of keys to be made each time.

allibastor · 03-12-2014 11:27am

The OP says it was for his bedroom door.
Simple as that.

In a shared rental house where the intention of the LL is to have it as a house share it is good practice to install single locks on each door. This gives extra security to tenants and also means you only need to replace 1 lock at a time if needed.

anonyanony · 03-12-2014 11:34am

allibastor wrote: »

The OP says it was for his bedroom door.
Simple as that.

In a shared rental house where the intention of the LL is to have it as a house share it is good practice to install single locks on each door. This gives extra security to tenants and also means you only need to replace 1 lock at a time if needed.

Sure but internal door locks mostly all use standard keys which you can get down in the hardware store so replacing them is useless.

Michael D Not Higgins · 03-12-2014 11:37am

allibastor wrote: »

The OP says it was for his bedroom door.
Simple as that.

In a shared rental house where the intention of the LL is to have it as a house share it is good practice to install single locks on each door. This gives extra security to tenants and also means you only need to replace 1 lock at a time if needed.

Yeah but as anonyanony has said, changing the basta lock could be pointless. Changing the front door lock would prevent previous tenants entering and would narrow down the pool of suspects to those already in the house.

If there's no other forced entry, it's either one of the housemates or a multitude of former tenants with access to the house and a copy of some basta keys.

03-12-2014 12:37pm

allibastor wrote: »

In a shared rental house where the intention of the LL is to have it as a house share it is good practice to install single locks on each door. This gives extra security to tenants and also means you only need to replace 1 lock at a time if needed.

I doubt this ever gets done, I dont think a LL is under any obligation to change internal door locks, in a houseshare with a turnover of people its going to get annoying and costly to keep doing it.

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Yeah but as anonyanony has said, changing the basta lock could be pointless. Changing the front door lock would prevent previous tenants entering and would narrow down the pool of suspects to those already in the house.

But as has been pointed out its totally impractical to expect a LL to change front and back door locks in a houseshare every time a new tenant moves in. He could be changing locks multiple times per year in a house with a turnover of people. I doubt there is a houseshare in the country where the locks change when a tenant changes. In fact in the houseshares the LL is often not really involved in tenant changes from my experience, its usually the tenant who is moving out that arranges a replacement and hands over the keys etc.

Its very rare that there are issues like this and the op's brother was very unlucky and I feel sorry for him. It's is one of the risks of housesharing that's really unavoidable.

Michael D Not Higgins · 03-12-2014 12:39pm

Julissa Broad Server wrote: »

But as has been pointed out its totally impractical to expect a LL to change fornt and back door locks in a houseshare every time a new tenant moves in.

Yes I was the one who pointed it out. The only real protection is insurance.

03-12-2014 12:41pm

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Yes I was the one who pointed it out. The only real protection is insurance.

Sorry I took you up wrong.

anonyanony · 03-12-2014 12:41pm

Julissa Broad Server wrote: »

I doubt this ever gets done, I dont think a LL is under any obligation to change internal door locks, in a houseshare with a turnover of people its going to get annoying and costly to keep doing it.

But as has been pointed out its totally impractical to expect a LL to change fornt and back door locks in a houseshare every time a new tenant moves in. He could be changing locks multiple times per year. I doubt there is a houseshare in the country where the locks change when a tenant changes. In fact in the houseshares the LL is often not really involved in tenant changes from my experience, its usually the tenant who is moving out that arranges a replacement and hands over the keys etc.

Its very rare that there are issues like this and the op's brother was very unlucky and I feel sorry for him but it is one of the risks of housesharing that's really unavoidable.

Just add a point in the lease that locks are changed at the start to lease if a person moves out before the lease is up the cost to rechange the locks comes out of their deposit, that way he only has to pay to change the locks once a year at most

I don't think it's unfair to ask for new locks moving into a place for security and you might want to check your renters insurance if you don't get them changed you might not be covered.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 03-12-2014 12:43pm

I have never heard of a LL changing any locks each time new tenants moved in. Unless getting the locks changed was a stipulation for the new tenant to move in, a LL is not going to change the locks. Nevertheless, where you have a LL market, then if a tenant starts demanding the locks to be changed before agreeing to move in, I suspect a LL would just move on to the next interested parties.

03-12-2014 12:44pm

anonyanony wrote: »

Just add a point in the lease that locks are changed at the start to lease if a person moves out before the lease is up the cost to rechange the locks comes out of their deposit, that way he only has to pay to change the locks once a year at most

I don't think it's unfair to ask for new locks movong

Houseshares don't usually have a lease though. I think its far too much to expect locks to be changed in a shared house. It makes a bit sense when renting a full house but even then I think its rare to have the locks changed, its not something I have ever come across or heard of people requesting and not something I would go asking for myself to be honest.

anonyanony · 03-12-2014 12:47pm

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

I have never heard of a LL changing any locks each time new tenants moved in. Unless getting the locks changed was a stipulation for the new tenant to move in, a LL is not going to change the locks. Nevertheless, where you have a LL market, then if a tenant starts demanding the locks to be changed before agreeing to move in, I suspect a LL would just move on to the next interested parties.

I have not tried in todays market to ask last move was 3 years ago, but I would ask for the external locks to be changed at least at my own cost once I moved in as I got robbed by a previous occupier before and was not covered by my insurance so the cost to change the locks would be worth it imo and would not move in if I could not get them changed.

allibastor · 03-12-2014 1:22pm

An internal lock is not a basta or anything like that.

An internal like, like a key lock in student accommodation is a separate smaller lock fitted to the door frame, similar to a small front door key.

http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2012/10/31/should-bedroom-doors-have-locks-on-them/

A lock like this picture, and also this article would be used.

anonyanony · 03-12-2014 1:28pm

allibastor wrote: »

An internal lock is not a basta or anything like that.

An internal like, like a key lock in student accommodation is a separate smaller lock fitted to the door frame, similar to a small front door key.

A lock like this picture, and also this article would be used.

It depends on the place really every student place I rented my room was just locked by a basta lock and I would expect it to be the same in most student houses outside of Dublin where they are just houses with individual rooms rented to a separate student.

seamus · 03-12-2014 1:32pm

Legally I don't think you have any comeback. While the landlord would have responsibility to ensure that the property is adequately secure, that would only extend to ensuring that there are security mechanisms in place (i.e. locks) and those mechanisms are in a working order.

Someone accessing the property illegally is not something the landlord can be held responsible for, even if that person accessed the property using a key.

Room in shared house broken into

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