What is high milage for a 4 x4?

Kevin McCloud

Just came across this article,

http://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/hilux-racks-up-387-000-mile-son-original-engine-and-gearbox.htm?cmpid=sf6079355

387,000 miles is a nice bit of miles but not high milage in my opinion, neighbour had a cruiser with 350,000 miles done when he sold it on and was a flyer. Heard of a 3.1 trooper doing close to 500,000 miles there a few years back.
Highest milage i put up on a 4x4 was 275,000 miles on a pajero and engine was running 100% when i sold on the jeep. What milage have ye seen or put up on a 4x4 and class as high milage.

101sean

Interesting question given the lax attitude to servicing here!

There's plenty of tdi and Td5 Land Rovers put up 300k+ miles (lots of other bits will have fallen off in the meantime though!), regular servicing and oil changes is the secret, manufacturers oil change intervals are way too stretched these days. I'm only up to 167k miles on mine but bro in law is on over 260k km on his 05 defender 130 and still on original clutch as well.

Many think 200k is high miles, stand behind a truck driver who's just put €500 of diesel on the fuel card and hear the mileage he tells the guy behind the counter!

Kevin McCloud

Servicing is definitely a key factor in achieving high milage, take the london black taxis alot of them have the 2.7td engine that is the same engine in the nissan terrano and they are achieving nearly 1 million miles. One can argue the same engine in a taxi and a 4x4 have two very different lives so maybe the same engine in a terrano might not do the milage.

kay 9

I believe it's all down to proper maintenance and the type of driver/owner and life a vehicle had. For example, I have yet to replace a clutch or gearbox in vehicle I ever had whereas neighbours and mates think it's great fun. I do something to mine nearly every weekend though. Whether it's just a bulb or a wash it's all maintenance.


Driving a 3.2 pajero with only 100k miles up yet. Most vehicles bodies give up the ghost long before the engine does.

Tail Docker

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Servicing is definitely a key factor in achieving high milage, take the london black taxis alot of them have the 2.7td engine that is the same engine in the nissan terrano and they are achieving nearly 1 million miles. One can argue the same engine in a taxi and a 4x4 have two very different lives so maybe the same engine in a terrano might not do the milage.

We had a 91 terrano with over 300k miles on it and the engine was still strong, but the body was falling apart. Not a 4*4, but we also had a citreon dispatch van , the 1.9na with over 450k miles done. Again, the body fell asunder before the engine.

There's one transit we have, it gets stop/started all day every day, the mileage is small, just 150k km and it is literally dying on it's feet, so I'd say lots of long journeys as opposed to constant short hops is the key to big miles/no deaths.

101sean

True, mega motorway miles is a lot easier on an engine than lots of stop/start.

TrailerBob

Routine servicing is the life of any machine. Though as Kay9 says, the body is usually first to go. My Cruiser has 240,000 miles and apart from a few small scratches, it's like new, and runs as well as the day I bought it 6 years ago. But then it wants for nothing...

I've also seen cruisers beat at 120,000 miles, because some poor soul thinks that you don't need to service it, or taking off in 3rd gear all the time is ok

kay 9

TrailerBob wrote: »

Routine servicing is the life of any machine. Though as Kay9 says, the body is usually first to go. My Cruiser has 240,000 miles and apart from a few small scratches, it's like new, and runs as well as the day I bought it 6 years ago. But then it wants for nothing...

I've also seen cruisers beat at 120,000 miles, because some poor soul thinks that you don't need to service it, or taking off in 3rd gear all the time is ok

Sure enough, there is a few farmers around me too that would test the USA army's best tanks if they had towbars lol. Pure donkeys, no respect for anything. I notice the lads with less money/earnings seem to look after their gear better more often than not.

oising2014

Is there such a thing as a 05 Land Rover FreeLander 1.6 Litre

kay 9

oising2014 wrote: »

Is there such a thing as a 05 Land Rover FreeLander 1.6 Litre

More likely 1.8. Didn't think they did a 1600

Tail Docker

oising2014 wrote: »

Is there such a thing as a 05 Land Rover FreeLander 1.6 Litre

One running on three cylinders? Common enough I'd say...

Kevin McCloud

Read on another forum a member boasting of his high milage of 300,000km on a pajero, had a pic as proof.
Only ran in at that milage.

Seamus1964

3.2 Shogun, always looked after , apart from vacuum solenoid what needs to be changed , after 180 000 miles runs like new.
Serviced every year - no troubles what-so-ever.
Me no money..cheap ****e as I am

Cheensbo

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Read on another forum a member boasting of his high milage of 300,000km on a pajero, had a pic as proof.
Only ran in at that milage.

Exactly: only ran in sure thats not even 200k miles!, mine's on 370,000kms and I'd call it low for a 22 year old machine. Still sweet as a nut too.

Kevin McCloud

Cheensbo wrote: »

Exactly: only ran in sure thats not even 200k miles!, mine's on 370,000kms and I'd call it low for a 22 year old machine. Still sweet as a nut too.

Is yours a 2.5 or 2.8?

Cheensbo

2.5

Kevin McCloud

Once they are minded they stay trouble free, they get alot of criticism with heads and back axles cracking but when they are raped pulling big boxes loaded with live stock and little service is it any wonder.
The last 2.5 one i had i got it boosting more by adjusting the wastegate and adjusting the pump, got rid of that fan under the intercooler, put on an oil catch can and flushed out the intercooler, pipes and inlet manifold.
Made a nice difference in the go.

Cheensbo

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Once they are minded they stay trouble free, they get alot of criticism with heads and back axles cracking but when they are raped pulling big boxes loaded with live stock and little service is it any wonder.
The last 2.5 one i had i got it boosting more by adjusting the wastegate and adjusting the pump, got rid of that fan under the intercooler, put on an oil catch can and flushed out the intercooler, pipes and inlet manifold.
Made a nice difference in the go.

Seems alright for cooling (so far anyway) I'm a dedicated temp guage watcher anyway from previous vehicles.

True, It's definitely not the fastest thing on 4 wheels but not painfully slow either, quicker than my old 3.0 1kz surf, but a lot slower than the 3.0 v6 Paj I had last year in Oz. Have never driven a 2.8 mind, I hear they're a lot quicker.

I was reading up on stuff like that but I wouldn't have the confidence to go messing with the wastegate or pump. What does removing the little fan do? Might make up a little catch can alright, what harm, but in saying that it doesn't seem to throw out a lot of blow-by.
Would you recommend blocking the egr?

Kevin McCloud

I blanked the egr as soon as i got it, get the air as cool as you can into the engine for a bigger bang.
Removing the fan allows air go through the intercooler more freerer, they are very restricted with that shroud and small circle hole where fan is which obstructs air too. Designed for hot climates i was told they put it there.
Was going to put a bigger intercooler on it and put it out front but from doing research the stock one was good.

Cheensbo

Right, I'll block her up so, And remove the fan & shroud. And out of interest, for flushing the IC, what should I flush it with?

Thanks for the info, any more little hints/tips about them fire them my way!

Kevin McCloud

I use petrol, just make sure it dries out. Change the coolant if you haven't done it recently be no harm.

Marlow

Over 600k km on my 4x4 VW LT at the moment. Bearings in the rear diff now want to be changed

I also changed the engine last year. Not because I had to, but because it was cheaper to get a 2nd hand complete engine with about 30 bhp more and a newly reconditioned turbo already, than changing the oilpump and turbo. Plus the fact that the oil pump replacement was an engine out job anyhow.

Milage means nothing for a car/truck/4x4. It's how you treat and service it.

/M

Kevin McCloud

Marlow wrote: »

Over 600k km on my 4x4 VW LT at the moment. Bearings in the rear diff now want to be changed

I also changed the engine last year. Not because I had to, but because it was cheaper to get a 2nd hand complete engine with about 30 bhp more and a newly reconditioned turbo already, than changing the oilpump and turbo. Plus the fact that the oil pump replacement was an engine out job anyhow.

Milage means nothing for a car/truck/4x4. It's how you treat and service it.

/M

Marlow

You can troll as much as you like. Milage always refers (by law) to the chassis. Not to the engine.

And milage considers all parts of the vehicle.

/M

Kevin McCloud

To be very fair about it the general theme of the thread was what mileage can an engine accumulate on its life. Swapping engines and accumulating mileage on a vehicle whether its law or not is not what i was intending to talk about.

Marlow

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

To be very fair about it the general theme of the thread was what mileage can an engine accumulate on its life. Swapping engines and accumulating mileage on a vehicle whether its law or not is not what i was intending to talk about.

Then your first post and subject should have specified, that you were interested in milage for the engine, not the 4x4.

Again, that's complete and utter nonsense anyhow, because if you're interested in engine lifetime, it should be measured in operating hours, like it's done on generators and other machinery.

Milage on a 4x4 tells you nothing about the workload the engine has done, ESPECIALLY when it comes to a 4x4. Because the engine could have been running twice the time doing for example winch duty or other tasks, than what it's done in milage.

Wear and tear on the engine can not be measured in milage. By any means.

In my case, we're talking a truck, that for 20 years has been used for heavy forrestry duty. And done over 600k km at that. And the engine is still perfect. Just needs a new turbo and oilpump. I have it here in the garage. I just opted for a power upgrade, while I was at it.

/M

Kevin McCloud

Marlow wrote: »

Then your first post and subject should have specified, that you were interested in milage for the engine, not the 4x4.

My apologies for not being very specific.

Again, that's complete and utter nonsense anyhow, because if you're interested in engine lifetime, it should be measured in operating hours, like it's done on generators and other machinery.

Milage on a 4x4 tells you nothing about the workload the engine has done, ESPECIALLY when it comes to a 4x4. Because the engine could have been running twice the time doing for example winch duty or other tasks, than what it's done in milage.

Wear and tear on the engine can not be measured in milage. By any means.

Milage on any combustion engine based on mileage at that rate is nonsense so, the person who will leave his car ticking over for 2 hours while at the drive in cinema or the person stuck in city traffic.
The hour meter should be introduced so.

n my case, we're talking a truck, that for 20 years has been used for heavy forrestry duty. And done over 600k km at that. And the engine is still perfect. Just needs a new turbo and oilpump. I have it here in the garage. I just opted for a power upgrade, while I was at it.

When you say a power upgrade did you put in a more powerful engine?

Marlow

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

When you say a power upgrade did you put in a more powerful engine?

Correct. Based on the same block, but a 2nd hand engine of the same type with added intercooler manifolds, more aggressive cam, a different wastegate for the turbo, that kicks in a bit earlier and handles more volume, bigger injectors, etc. About 30 bhp and a good bit torque more.

There are 3 generations of the same engine in the 21 years, that the Mk1 LT's have been build, without changing the basic block and engine. And the same engine has also been used in other vehicles with even further power modifications.

/M

Kevin McCloud

I didnt mean any disrespect with that youtube clip, i am of the opinion that if one accumulates an x amount of mileage by fitting a different engine or more then that throws all out the window. What the law is on that subject does not entertain me.
Im interested in hearing of a 4x4 with original engine of doing big mileage, from the last of what i read online was a cruiser, a j45 i think in africa with over 600,000 miles.

Marlow

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

I didnt mean any disrespect with that youtube clip, i am of the opinion that if one accumulates an x amount of mileage by fitting a different engine or more then that throws all out the window. What the law is on that subject does not entertain me.
Im interested in hearing of a 4x4 with original engine of doing big mileage, from the last of what i read online was a cruiser, a j45 i think in africa with over 600,000 miles.

The problem you're facing there is, that engine swaps and replacements are not uncommon and often not documented.

So unless you've got first hand knowledge or the owner clearly specifies, it's the first engine, you can't be sure, that it's on the first engine.

Milage in any report always refers to the chassis, never to the engine.

In Ireland people see a car as being scrap, when the engine is dead. In a lot of other countries, the car is dead, when the car can't be mended at all.

/M

Kevin McCloud

Thats a very valid point that one might not know its history and it may have had several engine changes. A simple check of its engine number to its book would clear that up though.

Marlow

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Thats a very valid point that one might not know its history and it may have had several engine changes. A simple check of its engine number to its book would clear that up though.

Erhm .. if Revenue in any of those places is as thorough as they're in Ireland, that's not gonna happen. I've at least imported 3 cars, where it was too much hassle to get the engine number of the engine and they've substituted it for either the chassis number or a random figure of 12345 or 99999.

In general, it doesn't tell much about the car anyhow. I'd rather buy a 4x4, that has had an engine swap, as it tells me, that the owner cared about the car and surely there was an issue with the previous engine. Might have been a monday morning model.

/M

Kevin McCloud

So what is the solution, an hour meter for everything? Scrap the mileometer?

Marlow

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

So what is the solution, an hour meter for everything? Scrap the mileometer?

In a perfect world, cars would have both milage and an hour meter (for the engine). Absolutely.

If the engine is replaced, the hour meter is reset or set to whatever is valid for the engine (if 2nd hand). There's already laws in most countries, that specify, the milage follows the chassis.

Now, that still doesn't tell you how much the engine has been stressed, but you'd be in a lot better position alright.

Just my 2c.

/M

Kevin McCloud

Marlow wrote: »

There's already laws in most countries, that specify, the milage follows the chassis.

You mentioned this already, does not every vehicles mileage follow the chassis unless one changes the clocks or plug it in?

braddun

just put new engine and transmission into it

Marlow

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

You mentioned this already, does not every vehicles mileage follow the chassis unless one changes the clocks or plug it in?

What is done and what's the law are two different things.

By law, even if the clocks are changed, they should be programmed to the chassis milage. Newer cars (for example BMW) record the milage in the clocks, keys and in 1 or 2 different ECU's, so it's hard to tamper.

Milage is also recorded on every NCT and now CVRT. So if somebody tampers with it, it'll show in the history.

Again, all of this is only as good, as the person who enters the data.

/M

Kevin McCloud

Forget about one changing clocks like for like of course they should match up, back to your lt do you regard your van has reached a true 600,00km although it took another engine to reach it?

Marlow

Because the engine is only one part of it all.

There are axles, gearbox, transferbox, lots of parts, that make the whole 4x4.

At the end of the day, the truck is 25 years old and the shell has seen over 600k km. I know though for example, that it's on it's first set of axles and that's not an unimportant thing, when it comes to a 4x4. First gearbox, too.

/M

Kevin McCloud

Fair point but you have to consider the engine as being the main factor here. Alot of good axles and boxes etc will do without an engine.

Marlow

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Fair point but you have to consider the engine as being the main factor here. Alot of good axles and boxes etc will do without an engine.

We could argue, that if you never replace any of those parts (engine, gearbox, t-case, axles etc.) then you're not pushing your truck hard enough.

When buying a 4x4, I'd rather buy one, that has it all replaced (as it needed replacing), than one that hasn't. Because the one that hasn't, might need to have it replaced tomorrow and will cost me a fortune.

I do agree though, that the average milage figure you get out of a truck without hassle gives you a good indication, which trucks are more reliable and which are not.

Record figures unfortunatly tell you nothing. Apart from the glory aspect.

/M

Kevin McCloud

Marlow wrote: »

When buying a 4x4, I'd rather buy one, that has it all replaced (as it needed replacing), than one that hasn't. Because the one that hasn't, might need to have it replaced tomorrow and will cost me a fortune.

Think abut what you are saying here, take any 4x4. Does an owner ring up their main dealer and ask them what mileage or what recommendations they have at replacing a gearbox, transfer box or axles? Do they hell.
What is your recommendation of changing such items?

Marlow

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

What is your recommendation of changing such items?

If it starts whining and throwing out oil, it needs rebuilding, getting bearings replaced, etc.

If I've pushed my luck too far, it needs replacing.

If it packs in before I noticed, it was screwed, it probably damaged a whole sh!tload of other things in the process, which then also need to be replaced or will die soon after.



At the end of the day: servicing and maintaining by the owner. The all important factor.

/M

Kevin McCloud

Marlow wrote: »

If it packs in before I noticed, it was screwed,

Anyone mechanically minded would pick up on such a problem, take a whiny diff or leaking diff etc. Wet around a drive shaft indicating that the diff may be low on oil etc.

Marlow

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Anyone mechanically minded would pick up on such a problem, take a whiny diff or leaking diff etc. Wet around a drive shaft indicating that the diff may be low on oil etc.

Yep. Now .. how many 4x4's (or what people call 4x4's) are out there ? And how many of these people owning these do you consider mechanically minded ?



/M

Kevin McCloud

Marlow wrote: »

Yep. Now .. how many 4x4's (or what people call 4x4's) are out there ? And how many of these people owning these do you consider mechanically minded ?



/M

Im no qualified mechanic or 4x4 mechanic but im around them since i was in national school and i have learned myself. Im not calling myself an expert or anything but if i go looking at a jeep i can make an accurate judgement on its condition.
I don't base the quality of the jeep on its current doe or the speal out of its owner.

Seamus1964

Just "unfollowed" from this topic.
Kind of impressive how two eejit's can ruin a good topic...

Please continue Marlow, please continue Kevin..

Kevin McCloud

Well said Seamus1964, very true.

BreadnBuddha

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Well said Seamus1964, very true.

Ironic.

Kevin, it's an engine, not a soul of some kind.

A heart transplant doesn't mean the recipient isn't the same person they were before, just that they needed a major swap out to keep adding the time and distance to their life. An engine swap is the same thing.