Coat, question on down fill power

techguy

So,

I'm looking at getting myself a coat for cold weather.

I've seen various fill powers ranging from 550 - 700. Obviously higher is better, but is there a point where it's not really necessary to have ~700 unless braving -20 celcius on a regular basis.

I want this for trips when I will be out a lot, like sight seeing in the Winter, ski trips etc and out in Ireland when it's cold.

Whats the deal with down and wet? I understand that down is something you DO NOT want to get wet.

I see a North Face mcmurdo parka which is 550 fill and "fully water proof" vs a ~650 fill down, quilted, non water proof.

In my opinion the Parka, while more expensive is more practical as I get caught in the rain.

Opinions please?

Thanks in advance.

fits

In Ireland, you would need the waterproofing. Get that one.

Also, the fill is not necessarily an indicator of warmth. I read something about that recently. will check it out again.

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Down-Jacket-Womens-Reviews/Buying-Advice

Fill Power
A common misconception with down is that a higher fill number equates to more warmth. This is not the case. Down fill power is a way of gauging the quality of a down product, as measured by the warmth-to-weight ratio. Most jackets will range from 550 to 850 or 900 fill down with Patagonia boasting 1000 fill down with its new Encapsil technology. A rating of 800 fill means that one ounce of down equals 800 cubic inches of loft (when compressed by a standardized weight). This means that a 550 fill jacket can be just as warm as an 850 fill jacket--but it will be bulkier, less compressible, and heavier.

hmmm

I'm happy to be corrected, but I can see very little point of a standard down filled jacket in Ireland unless you're within a short distance of warmth & shelter. The climate is too wet in Winter & too humid the rest of the year to rely on anything that becomes useless when wet.

Syntethic down which retains heat when wet is a different matter.

techguy

Thanks folks,

@fits, an interesting point about fill power, thanks.

I definitely don't see the point on a non waterproof coat in Ireland.

Whats the deal with getting one of these on sale in January? Would I be better to bight the bullet and buy now or risk it and see if I can get one discounted?

Thanks,

Enduro

techguy wrote: »

Thanks folks,

@fits, an interesting point about fill power, thanks.

I definitely don't see the point on a non waterproof coat in Ireland.

Whats the deal with getting one of these on sale in January? Would I be better to bight the bullet and buy now or risk it and see if I can get one discounted?

Thanks,

No reason why you shouldn't ask! They can only say no.

A non-waterproof one should be fine as long as you have a very good waterproof shell over it. I intend partially testing that theory soon enough.

Another one to consider for water-resistant down is the Columbia Turbodown jackets. I've just got hold of one and so far it seems excellent, but I haven't given it an arduous test yet.

hmmm

Enduro wrote: »

A non-waterproof one should be fine as long as you have a very good waterproof shell over it. I intend partially testing that theory soon enough.

I'd be interested to know what your use case for this is? I find down jackets are too warm in general for most outdoor activities in Ireland (I'm sure they're fine standing on a touchline), so they need to be used as an outdoor layer which can easily be added or removed (e.g. as a belay jacket).

fits

You will definitely get a North face in the sales. they are discounted every year.

I have been looking at down jackets for three years now but yet to make a purchase. Have coped fine up to - 27 with a cheapo.

Pat Mustard

techguy wrote: »

Whats the deal with down and wet? I understand that down is something you DO NOT want to get wet.

Down loses a lot of its insulation value when wet and it takes ages to dry out again. Compare this to wool, which still has significantly more insulation value when wet, and dries much faster.

techguy wrote: »

I see a North Face mcmurdo parka which is 550 fill and "fully water proof" vs a ~650 fill down, quilted, non water proof.

Of those two, I'd go for the McMurdo. Seriously warm parka. In this climate wouldn't go for a down coat/jacket that wasn't water resistant. Although Enduro makes a point about a waterproof outer shell if that is a compromise that you are prepared to accept.

techguy wrote: »

I want this for trips when I will be out a lot, like sight seeing in the Winter, ski trips etc and out in Ireland when it's cold.

The McMurdo will do for this. It's a bit warm for Ireland excepting the extremely cold winters of 2009/2010 and 2010/2011.

I wouldn't plan on going for a run in the McMurdo or anything.

Enduro

hmmm wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what your use case for this is? I find down jackets are too warm in general for most outdoor activities in Ireland (I'm sure they're fine standing on a touchline), so they need to be used as an outdoor layer which can easily be added or removed (e.g. as a belay jacket).

I'm gearing up for this race. January weather in the yorkshire dales / scottish borders is likely to be pretty crappy one way or the other. If it freezes I think a down layer would be good to have, particularly at night.

Alun

So, effectively, running the Pennine Way? I hope you like mud

Enduro

Alun wrote: »

So, effectively, running the Pennine Way? I hope you like mud

Yup that's it. Sure I live in Ireland... mud is something I can deal with But I'm actually hoping for colder weather to freeze the ground.

fits

With this new information, I think you need both a pac lite down jacket and a waterproof jacket you can wear over it. A waterproof down jacket will probably be too heavy and warm when you are active. Will you be resting in the outdoors or is there accomodation? Do you have to carry all your gear?

techguy

So guys..

I just looked at the McMurdo today in Great Outdoors. I also spotted it in Arnotts.

Silly me that I didn't try it on. I will do so tomorrow.

Where else in Dublin could I find decent North Face stock. Would you guys mind helping me start a list.

I'm going to wait until the new year and ring around to see if it is on sale.

Since the jacket isn't an immediate requirement, €379 is a bit much.

Cheers

braddun

north face your paying for name,they will not be good in snow,



http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_st_price-asc-rank?fst=as%3Aoff&keywords=ski+jacket&qid=1419195378&rh=n%3A318949011%2Cn%3A3076655031%2Cn%3A3076712031%2Cn%3A3076719031%2Cn%3A3076748031%2Cn%3A3076753031%2Ck%3Aski+jacket%2Cp_72%3A184323031&sort=price-asc-rank

Pat Mustard

techguy wrote: »

I'm going to wait until the new year and ring around to see if it is on sale.

Since the jacket isn't an immediate requirement, €379 is a bit much.

Stg£200 online here. Plus £15 postsage.

That's €275 delivered.

techguy

Cheers Mustard, great find. Looks like the start of the sales.

BUT, they don't have it in small >.<

BreadnBuddha

braddun wrote: »

north face your paying for name,they will not be good in snow,

Absolute horse crap. The McMurdo is a bloody brilliant coat and is ideally suited to tougher use in the snow. I've had one for years and it'll be replaced by another when the time comes!

BreadnBuddha

techguy wrote: »

So guys..

I just looked at the McMurdo today in Great Outdoors. I also spotted it in Arnotts.

Silly me that I didn't try it on. I will do so tomorrow.

Where else in Dublin could I find decent North Face stock. Would you guys mind helping me start a list.

I'm going to wait until the new year and ring around to see if it is on sale.

Since the jacket isn't an immediate requirement, €379 is a bit much.

Cheers

Snow & Rock in Dundrum Town Centre. Handy spin out on the LUAS. Further out the same LUAS line is 53 Degrees in Carrickmines. You might think both will be expensive and not worth the trip but I bought my TNF down parka for €195 in Snow and Rock and a TNF Summit series shell jacket for 40% or the typical retail price in 53 degrees. There's also a TK Maxx in Carrickmines which is worth a look too!

techguy

Just bought this (Amazon UK) one and will ship via Parcel Motel for a grand total of around €260

Pretty good value I think. Chuffed with it

Mycroft H

I've a Columbia Turbo Down. It's pretty waterproof as down jackets go.

I think this thing of Ireland always being wet is overstated. We've between 150-200 days on average when it's considered rainy and when it does rain it's usually showery. Like if you were heading sailing I wouldn't advise a down fill jacket but for lots of things a nice lightweight down jacket is great.

I've used mine belaying, hiking in the snow and for general bits round the house. Decent jackets.