Legality of advance stop line / bike box

RainyDay

I had an interesting 'chat' with a driver this week about use (abuse) of the advance stop line, which got me thinking about the legality of this yoke.

I see they are mentioned on P.68 of Rules of the Road, though there is no clear definition of the advance stop line.

Is there any clear legal definition? Is the little bike picture or the red tarmac required? Does the UK rule of being able to stop there once you passed through before the light went red apply here?

All contributions welcome...

Chips Lovell

Discussed here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057136579

Long story short, they're essentially two different stop lines, although some are designed in such a way that bikes can't legally enter them.

galwaycyclist

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

Discussed here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057136579

Long story short, they're essentially two different stop lines, although some are designed in such a way that bikes can't legally enter them.

I am not too sure about this part.

What this means:
Legally, an advanced stop box appears to consist of two stop line road markings, with a bicycle symbol placed between the two. There is no specific exemption for pedal cycles to cross the stop line into an advanced stop box, meaning it is only legal for cyclists to enter the box on red via a feeder lane, into which the stop line does not extend.

To my knowledge, and this may have changed, the painted bicycle symbol does not have any legal status as a road marking in Ireland. It may be used on upright signs but I don't think the road marking exists in legislation.

Chips Lovell

You're correct, it doesn't.

galwaycyclist

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

You're correct, it doesn't.

And just to confuse things. I seem to recall that the last time I checked the NRA/Department of Transport "Traffic Signs" manual, it seemed to suggest that the bicycle road marking does exist and does have a legal status.

From which I concluded that the consultants who drafted the traffic signs manual had not actually read the relevant legislation.

The same consultants were used to draft the NRAs guidance on cycle facilities on rural roads.

Edit: Actually I remember now I was at a presentation by one of the consultants where he seemed to be suggesting that this road marking had some kind of independent legal status.

The Traffic Signs manual was actually published two years before the legislation that gave effect to some of its recommendations.

http://www.dttas.ie/roads/publications/english/traffic-signs-manual-2010 (some of the files are very large)

rp

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Edit: Actually I remember now I was at a presentation by one of the consultants where he seemed to be suggesting that this road marking had some kind of independent legal status.

There is deffo case law that refutes this, it's even documented in Pierce's text book. I think the conclusion was that a road sign has zero meaning without appropriate S.I.s

RainyDay

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

Discussed here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057136579

Long story short, they're essentially two different stop lines, although some are designed in such a way that bikes can't legally enter them.

That's for the clarification.

That's mad, Ted.