Did you want fries with that? (Feedback thread)

The Hill Billy

As the dishes are dried, the 'good' knives & forks are put away & The Cooking Club 2014 draws to a close I'd like to take this opportunity to thank my co-mods for all the time & effort that they put into this forum (I just ban the no-shows).

But, most importantly, The F&D Mod Team would especially like to thank YOU for posting your recipes, for trying them & for giving your feedback each week. Without your ongoing active participation in the forum, there would be no club.

And as the heart & soul of this forum we would like your feedback...

How was The Cooking Club 2014 for you? What worked well? Are their any improvements or changes you would like to considered for 2015? Is Friday still the best day to get the new recipe? Images - is the 5-pic limit OK? Anything else?

Tell us what you think...

Bon appetite!

Mr. CooL ICE

I honestly can't think of anything to improve the cooking club. It works perfectly for what it is, is well moderated and all participants are friendly and helpful.

Unless someone has an amazing idea, you shouldn't try to fix it if it ain't broke (IMO)

Dinkie

I really like the setup of the cooking club.

The only small change I would like is to see the recipe of the week stickied for that week.

I have a lot less time now then I used to and give up trying to remember the week number and the year sometimes!! (perhaps me being a bit lazy). But I often look at it in the supermarket if I can't workout what to buy, and get frustrated trying to find them sometimes.

Which reminds me, i must start posting feedback again... I used to and have gotten out of the habit....:rolleyes:

Thanks for all your work over the past year.

The Hill Billy

Dinkie wrote: »

The only small change I would like is to see the recipe of the week stickied for that week.

I like it!

leahyl

Loving the Cooking Club and although I may not try a lot of the recipes simply because I live at home so it's hard to get access to the kitchen sometimes....I do hope to try a lot of recipes in the near future as I plan to move out and rent in the new year so looking forward to cooking up a storm!

I think the sticky idea is good also

MissFlitworth

Dinkie wrote: »

The only small change I would like is to see the recipe of the week stickied for that week.

Clever!! I love this idea.

Faith

I like the stickie idea too. The current stickies probably need a bit of a tidy up to make a recipe more visible, which I'll look at now.

Gloomtastic!

Only really discovered the Cooking Club this year and it's now one of my top places to get dinner ideas from. Very well organised, thanks all.

My only suggestion would be to put the recipes together and publish them as a book. With help from some of the folks on the Photography forum, I reckon it would be a winner with proceeds going to Santa Strike Force......

Loire

I love it and really enjoyed my first contribution this year. I'd actually only like MY contribution stickied though

Faith

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Only really discovered the Cooking Club this year and it's now one of my top places to get dinner ideas from. Very well organised, thanks all.

My only suggestion would be to put the recipes together and publish them as a book. With help from some of the folks on the Photography forum, I reckon it would be a winner with proceeds going to Santa Strike Force......

That's something that has been discussed several times over the last few years. It's a lovely idea, but not particularly feasible without serious man hours. Firstly, all of the mods have full lives outside of boards with jobs, families, responsibilities like everyone else, so putting together a book would take time that we don't necessarily have.

Secondly, there's huge copyright issues that would need dealing with. I'd say 50% of recipes here have been previously published elsewhere, so they couldn't be included. Weeding out those recipes would take forever, and that's only including recipes that acknowledge the original author. There's a few other recipes that are copy & paste jobs, but you wouldn't know it unless you accidentally stumbled across the original (which I did once, which is how I know!).

Finally, you're left with a batch of recipes that can be included. Who chooses which are included and which are excluded? The posters would have to give their consent to have the recipe included. Professional pictures would need to be arranged (and paid for, including a kitchen, cookware, crockery and a team to cook and present the dishes). Then there's typesetting and all of those things that go into publishing.

So, while I'm not saying it will never happen, it's a lot more work than it sounds at first glance

Dizzyblonde

Another thumbs up for the stickie idea

Lovely Bloke

Just going to add a huge thanks to the organisers, I know how much work went into it at the beginning, and it's even more now, so fair play for keeping it running so smoothly.

One thing - it's been 4 years, and the quality of the recipes remains quite high, but it's quite hard to think of something that isn't sortof/kindof repeating something that came before, and you might feel like you are stepping on toes by posting a similar recipe to one that came before "What was wrong with MY dish".

I like the split into parts of the year, that worked well.

I do think there's less feedback coming though, obviously people can't be forced to contribute, but I'd encourage anyone reading this that if you do happen to cook an entry, then do let people know.

The Black Oil

I think the way it's run is fine. On the sticky situation, maybe some recipes that have received less attention could be stickied once a fortnight. I'm not sure everyone will read the list to find something to their taste.

Faith

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

I do think there's less feedback coming though, obviously people can't be forced to contribute, but I'd encourage anyone reading this that if you do happen to cook an entry, then do let people know.

This is something that niggles at me as well. More people than ever are cooking recipes from here, but feedback has gone down totally. It has lost the feeling of a 'club' and now is more like a resource, like BBC Good Food or something. I also worry that posters will feel rejected or disappointed when there aren't many comments on their recipes, even though lack of comments isn't a sign that people aren't making the dishes.

I don't know what we could do to improve that aspect, though.

BaZmO*

Yeah that's quite an annoying aspect of the CC. It takes a lot of work to submit a recipe, but it only takes 30 secs to say that you've tried the recipe.

It disheartens me when people mention in other threads that they've made a CC recipe when they haven't given feedback in the actual thread.

hdowney

agree the both comments - the feedback and the sticky. I LOVE the cooking club and love being a part of it.

Oranage2

I'm very new here, from the little time I've been here I think it works very well. Good point about commenting, I know I've made the doughnut jam cupcakes, pizza dough, sweet and sour chicken dish and a few others without commenting so I will comment on all the recipes I make in future, give the dishes the recognition they deserve.

TeletextPear

Another vote for the sticky idea! And many thanks to the mods for organising it all, I'd love to see it continue in 2015

Sparks

Faith wrote: »

...copyright issues ... posters would have to give their consent ...

Just for the record, in the event this ever can get done (and yeah, I grok the problem), mine are original and if it's for the SSF, you have my full permission to use them...

Sparks

Faith wrote: »

I don't know what we could do to improve that aspect, though.

Just an idea, but what about a rule that for the week that the recipe is the recipe of the week, the OP has to babysit the thread (ie. answer questions, engage with it and so on, not just post and log off for a month)?

Faith

I don't anyone posts and then disappears, to be fair. Most posters are very good at engaging with others on the thread, but there's rarely questions asked or anything that requires a response.

Malari

I haven't tried a whole lot of recipes from the latter part of this year, life got in the way a bit for me. I'll come back to it in 2015 when I can though.

On the topic of giving feedback, I've sometimes found that even the people who post recipes can do a bit of "post and run!" Once their recipe is done that's it, and I know I've asked a couple of OPs for clarification, etc on the recipe and never been answered. The interaction is what makes this a club, rather than just an online recipe resource, and it's a shame when it slips.

Mr E

I'm subscribed to this forum and love seeing what people come up with every week. Thanks to all the contributors (I know first hand how much work goes into preparing a recipe here) and great job by the organisers. The success of this forum is a credit to you all.

hattoncracker

I love this forum.. I think that this year splitting it in three was a great idea. It really helped with the drop-outs.

I also love the sticky idea!!!

ChewChew

I'm guilty of little feedback in the latter part of this year too, and haven't looked at the recipes is a good few weeks but being part of the cooking club is fantastic and I wouldn't change it but I will absolutely make a conscious effort to give more feedback!! Also I love the idea of the stickies!! Never thought of it!! And finally a massive thanks to all the organiser and contributors!! Another great year was had

The Hill Billy

Sparks wrote: »

Just an idea, but what about a rule that for the week that the recipe is the recipe of the week, the OP has to babysit the thread (ie. answer questions, engage with it and so on, not just post and log off for a month)?

To me, it is a given that the poster keeps an eye on the thread to answer any questions & also to thank those who try it. I always follow any recipe that I post so that even months or years later I am notified of any new posts. When any comment is made I follow up on it.

Sparks

The Hill Billy wrote: »

To me, it is a given that the poster keeps an eye on the thread to answer any questions & also to thank those who try it. I always follow any recipe that I post so that even months or years later I am notified of any new posts. When any comment is made I follow up on it.

I took it as a given as well, but like Malari says, sometimes the OP doesn't do what everyone takes it as a given that they will. I blame the parents




Also, on an entirely different point, I know why the rule's in place, but I think that limit on the number of pictures absolutely sucks from a reader's point of view. Not everyone can describe how to do something in a readable way, but pictures fix that. And it's a damn sight easier to post a ten-second youtube clip showing how you form a tight doughball for a bread roll than it is to explain it in text. Honestly, I'd say peanuts to the mobile users and bring the photos back. There's a reason why sites like foodgawker are so popular...

BaZmO*

Realistically though, how often does it actually happen that someone posts a recipe and then goes AWOL? I'd say it happens very seldom. If anything, I'd say that if people post a recipe and then get absolutely no feedback whatsoever they are more likely to bugger off.

mirrorwall14

Sparks wrote: »

Also, on an entirely different point, I know why the rule's in place, but I think that limit on the number of pictures absolutely sucks from a reader's point of view. Not everyone can describe how to do something in a readable way, but pictures fix that. And it's a damn sight easier to post a ten-second youtube clip showing how you form a tight doughball for a bread roll than it is to explain it in text. Honestly, I'd say peanuts to the mobile users and bring the photos back. There's a reason why sites like foodgawker are so popular...

Id like both. there's nothing I hate more than having to watch videos in the middle of the recipe (pictures I don't mind as I can scroll past). If videos/pics were unlimited the descriptive text should have the same info

Sparks

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Id like both. there's nothing I hate more than having to watch videos in the middle of the recipe (pictures I don't mind as I can scroll past). If videos/pics were unlimited the descriptive text should have the same info

I dunno. I mean, for me if the choice is this:

Pretzel Roll Recipe wrote:

Okay, now to shape. No, you do not just squish them up and roll them into a ball, you'd have no internal structure, no decent crust if you did that. Instead, you pick up each piece, tuck the corners under into the middle, and then the new corners get the same treatment and you kinda shape it like that for a few seconds, then you sortof make an ok symbol with your thumb and forefinger and squeeze the doughball out through that, twist the base to secure it, then drop it on the surface from a few inches up, and then do that doughball scoop-and-twist from before only with a smaller doughball. It's easy once you pick up the knack and it doesn't take long to do that.

Or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A65g20ijyUM

Well, I think the latter's a damn sight better.
Granted, that's just me, but still.

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

Also, on an entirely different point, I know why the rule's in place, but I think that limit on the number of pictures absolutely sucks from a reader's point of view.

It is pointless to look at picture after picture of ingredients in a bowl though...

Faith

If amateur bakers on GBBO can follow an extremely scant recipe with no pictures at all, and still produce impressive complicated cakes, I'm sure people can manage to follow a clear cooking club recipe without dozens of pictures and videos .

Personally, I have strong opinions on the picture rule. 1. The calibre of cooks that use the CC is typically intermediate upwards. They're well able to follow a recipe without needing to rely on pictures and videos. 2. Cookbooks explain recipes just fine with one or two pictures at most, and no videos. 3. Lots of large pictures distract the eye and often cause you to skip over small sections of text. 4. It ruins threads on mobile devices.

There's lots more reasons that I feel less pictures is far best overall too. I'm personally confident that everyone here is capable of following clear written instructions, but this post is written strictly in a user capacity, not as a moderator, so everyone should debate this issue if it needs it.

Oh, an personally, I'd always find written instructions much easier to refer back to when I get confused, rather than trying to move the cursor to the exact right point on a video on my laptop with doughy/dirty hands.

The Hill Billy

Personal bit: I agree wholeheartedly with Faith on the pics topic. Most of my cookbooks & also most online recipes that I would view have generally one pic of the finished dish. Yeah, some of the more complicated dishes may have a vid, or a couple of pics to help with a tricky technique, but that's it.

I've seen instances of 5 image files being attached with the recipe but each image containing multiple pics - again, a lot of them not actually needed. I find that pointless to be honest. It can make the recipe seem overly 'involved' & off-putting. If I wanted an online tutorial in how to prepare something challenging - I'd hit YouTube or some of the more technical blogs. But I just want to have a recipe to follow...

Mod bit: Personally, I think that the 5 pic limit is a good compromise. It offers a certain opportunity for the poster to show what is going on as they prepare the dish. However, it prevents a plethora of redundant pics (you know the sort - pics of chopped carrots, something simmering in a pot, etc - things that offer nothing to how the reader should interpret the recipe) clogging up what should be a relatively straightforward recipe.

Gloomtastic!

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Personal bit: I agree wholeheartedly with Faith on the pics topic. Most of my cookbooks & also most online recipes that I would view have generally one pic of the finished dish. Yeah, some of the more complicated dishes may have a vid, or a couple of pics to help with a tricky technique, but that's it.

I've seen instances of 5 image files being attached with the recipe but each image containing multiple pics - again, a lot of them not actually needed. I find that pointless to be honest. It can make the recipe seem overly 'involved' & off-putting. If I wanted an online tutorial in how to prepare something challenging - I'd hit YouTube or some of the more technical blogs. But I just want to have a recipe to follow...

Mod bit: Personally, I think that the 5 pic limit is a good compromise. It offers a certain opportunity for the poster to show what is going on as they prepare the dish. However, it prevents a plethora of redundant pics (you know the sort - pics of chopped carrots, something simmering in a pot, etc - things that offer nothing to how the reader should interpret the recipe) clogging up what should be a relatively straightforward recipe.

Can we not leave it up to the posters' discretion whether pics are needed or not. I'm intending to contribute a recipe next year and have taken the pics already. They are however, as tHB describes, just pics of chopped up vegetables and ingredients frying in a frying pan......

Oranage2

As someone reading the recipes I just like seeing ingredients and quantities followed by a few steps and a picture of the finished dish.

But if the cook has put a lot of effort in then they probably want to show show people Exactly how much effort the put in and what Exactly they did.


As this is a club and not recipe resource, now Just a suggestion but how about first post is quick introduction followed by ingredients then steps, finally a picture of the finished dish. Second post can add pictures of the prep, tricky techniques, anecdotes and what not.

BaZmO*

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Can we not leave it up to the posters' discretion whether pics are needed or not. I'm intending to contribute a recipe next year and have taken the pics already. They are however, as tHB describes, just pics of chopped up vegetables and ingredients frying in a frying pan......

Nobody is saying pics are not needed, there is just a limit to how many you can use. Once you don't exceed that figure you'll be fine. You also decide what pics you want to use, it's your recipe after all.

Personally I like seeing the pics, but I also agree that putting up a clatter of pics can be distracting from the actual recipe. It's just a case of tying to find a happy medium.

mirrorwall14

Oranage2 wrote: »

As someone reading the recipes I just like seeing ingredients and quantities followed by a few steps and a picture of the finished dish.

But if the cook has put a lot of effort in then they probably want to show show people Exactly how much effort the put in and what Exactly they did.


As this is a club and not recipe resource, now Just a suggestion but how about first post is quick introduction followed by ingredients then steps, finally a picture of the finished dish. Second post can add pictures of the prep, tricky techniques, anecdotes and what not.

Sort of like a TLDR? That would be cool for posters who want to include more.

Like I would read the second post in detail and then have the short and sweet version in post one for making it!

The Hill Billy

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Can we not leave it up to the posters' discretion whether pics are needed or not. I'm intending to contribute a recipe next year and have taken the pics already. They are however, as tHB describes, just pics of chopped up vegetables and ingredients frying in a frying pan......

I am guilty of this myself. I think because I was going with the flow of earlier recipes posted with photos.

But may I ask why? Is it that you want the other posters to see the level of effort made in the prep, highlight a certain aspect of the recipe, some other reason ("Hey, check out my cool kitchen decor in the background!" :pac:)?

If we can understand posters' rationales for their pics it would really help us.

Malari

I find a lot of photos irritating. I like the 5 picture rule because I'm usually following a recipe on my tablet and it's annoying if you have to keep scrolling through pics between the ingredient list and the method, especially if you have to wipe your hands each time!

Padraig Mor

Love the sticky idea.

On pics, bear in mind that you can always create an online album of as many pics as you like and link it from the recipe. I did this with my recipe a couple of years ago, for the side dishes.

The Hill Billy wrote: »

I've seen instances of 5 image files being attached with the recipe but each image containing multiple pics - again, a lot of them not actually needed..

:o:pac:

Dizzyblonde

I often copy and paste recipes from the CC that I love into a Recipes folder on my laptop for handiness, and it's a laborious task when there are lots of photos with the ingredients list and instructions scattered between them.

I personally feel that most recipes don't require more than two photos of the work in progress and one of the finished product - unless there's an unusual ingredient that people need to see in order to be able to find it. Lots of photos make a recipe way too cluttered for me.

MissFlitworth

On the debbie downer side for including lots of photos in the recipe instead of typing out steps, after a while imgur & photobucket etc. routinely just delete stuff so if you've included a lot of detail in the photos instead of writing it out your recipe can sort of end up a bit lacking in ways people are able to make it.

To see where this becomes an issue have a gander here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056051558

where most of the method for lining the tin etc. was in photos that imageshack got rid of


I can probably chime in a bit on why people like to include LOADS of pictures seeing as how my recipe included shots of a) the butcher's window b) the table of herbs I bought my coriander off of and I still have about a million photos of the whole day in an album somewhere When I was writing my post I was telling a story a bit and when I'm reading a post in the Cooking Club I'm probably not reading the recipe to make it because, unfortunately, I rarely get round to that. I'm reading cooking club entries to get the story of the recipe, see nice pictures and hopefully get a good nose around someone's kitchen and a little nose into their life. So I'm after a nose and a bit of food envy rather than a dinner most of the time.

I'm not sure what it is but maybe there a solution for the people who like to look at the pretty pictures & share rakes of pictures of what they've done versus the people who are actually making the recipe? A seperate food photos thread in the Cooking Club we can all splurge in?

Faith

I think the idea of linking to an imgur album or similar is a good one if you really feel that you want to include lots of pictures. Imgur allows you to have captions so you can still explain every picture. I'm not a huge fan of the idea of a second post with all of the extra pictures because that will still make the thread very slow to load for anyone on a 3G connection. A separate thread for all excess pictures could be an idea.

As far as story telling goes, that's fine with me as long as it's easily skippable and not interspersed with the recipe, because that's also distracting.

As the Hill Billy said, it would be interesting if posters could explain why they feel their recipe needs so many pictures .

Oranage2

Faith wrote: »

I think the idea of linking to an imgur album or similar is a good one if you really feel that you want to include lots of pictures. Imgur allows you to have captions so you can still explain every picture. I'm not a huge fan of the idea of a second post with all of the extra pictures because that will still make the thread very slow to load for anyone on a 3G connection. A separate thread for all excess pictures could be an idea.

As far as story telling goes, that's fine with me as long as it's easily skippable and not interspersed with the recipe, because that's also distracting.

As the Hill Billy said, it would be interesting if posters could explain why they feel their recipe needs so many pictures .

When I'm on my 3g I turn off photos in my phone browser, maybe as a mod you need to see the photos though I don't know.

I myself like the photos and the stories, I think they add to the club feel, I just don't like it when I'm trying to follow a recipe and there's a lot of photos and stories cutting into the steps. Another thread might work for them but it could take away from the fun of the 'this is my recipe' feel.

I think these recipes are similar to people's babies, people stick loads of photos of their kids up but Nobody else really cares. Same with recipes, people are proud of them and want to show them off. Also as the cooking club has a lot of people wanting to make recipes, so people might only get the chance to cook once or twice a year, so the load of pictures is their way of showing off and showing their personality whether that's quirky prep work or funny plates (to everyone else it's just chopped carrots and a plate with a cat on it)

I think that's the motive for the many pictures, not saying it's right or wrong but I do think it does add to the community otherwise I could just Google a random recipe.


Ps I'm not saying my idea about the two posts is right, it was just a brain storming idea or something to work off.

The Hill Billy

Thanks to each & every one of you for your feedback. We're going to wrap this thread up soon, then go away & cogitate & digest the feedback given. We'll then see what, if any, changes we'll make for next year.

I'll leave the thread open until later tonight, so get any further comments in if you have some.

Thanks again!

tHB

Sparks

Oranage2 wrote: »

As someone reading the recipes I just like seeing ingredients and quantities followed by a few steps and a picture of the finished dish.

To offer late counter-argument, I've seen a few recipes in various places that go down this road a bit too far and you wind up looking at twelve ingredients and the words "prep" and "mix" and "bake until done in a hot oven" and the picture is something that a four-star Michelin pastry chef would baulk at. Plus, as others have said, "club" and "recipe book" are a bit different (though honestly, for me, that's a secondary thing).

Personally I prefer Alton Brown's style to Michelle Roux's, ie. Please explain and show everything you're doing in as much detail as you can because I'm not a professionally trained chef, I'm an amateur home cook and I don't know how to do it and if you tell me everything, it's a darn sight easier to filter out the few bits I do know than it is to add in the many new bits I've never heard of before...


(Also, I may be biased because I kept putting up recipes for things we - at the time, this was a few years ago now and these days they're terribly fashionable - didn't really cook in Ireland much, like pulled pork or proper real chilli)

BaZmO*

Sparks wrote: »

(Also, I may be biased because I kept putting up recipes for things we - at the time, this was a few years ago now and these days they're terribly fashionable - didn't really cook in Ireland much, like pulled pork or proper real chilli)

In fairness though, for your chilli recipe you had lots of photos but no list of ingredients. I find that more confusing than anything else.

All we're trying to do here is make it easy for everybody involved.

The Black Oil

Photos help with the community feeling. The 5 pic rules is sensible. Additional pics could be added as links.

Is it necessary to wind down this thread now? Not being argumentative. If so, could it be re-opened at some point in Feb to see how any tweaks are being received?

This might be very labourious, but how about another post here breaking recipes into sections soups/starters, mains, breads and desserts/treats?

The Hill Billy

It is necessary to wind down the thread as we do not want to be taking an ongoing stream of feedback & then making changes to how the forum works on the fly.

This is a fairly straightforward forum & we want to plan now for next year & not be making changes again throughout the year. That said, if someone has an issue or wants to make a suggestion, they can PM the mods at any time.

Regarding a thread splitting the recipes into Starters, Mains & Dessert - good idea. I will look to take care of this over the coming days.

tHB

The Hill Billy

Ladies & Gents of The Cooking Club - thanks for your feedback. Based on what you have told us we shall maintain the 5-pic guideline - it seems to be suitable for the majority.

We shall now sticky the current & past week to hopefully get as much feedback as possible. We would also encourage all members to provide as much feedback (pics & commentary) as possible. The Club is nothing without you. Your feedback is the lifeblood of the forum.

Again, for 2015 we shall have three tranches of recipes. In 2014 it helped limit the 'no-shows' & maintained continuity for the Club for all.

We shall open up a thread for 2015 participants soon. We also hope to have a few surprises for you this year. So, sign up & give it your best, whether as a poster or someone giving feedback.

Bon appetit,

tHB