Out wintering sheep

Green farmer

Just trying to plan my wintering. At this stage most of grass is gone. Have a few ring feeders in dry paddocks / fields. Are their any guidelines around how many sheep you can have per acre etc, for out wintering. Thinking about putting 50 store lambs into a 1/2 acre paddock with the feeding troughs as opposed to sticking them into a shed. The ground is gravelly, shallow soil type so they won't sink down through it. Think their healthier outside.

ganmo

sheds are for the farmer :P
the way we usually decide where we winter the lambs(the ewes are on the hill) is which ever field was the 'hungriest' over the year, all that **** works wonders

galwayhillbilly

Green farmer wrote: »

Just trying to plan my wintering. At this stage most of grass is gone. Have a few ring feeders in dry paddocks / fields. Are their any guidelines around how many sheep you can have per acre etc, for out wintering. Thinking about putting 50 store lambs into a 1/2 acre paddock with the feeding troughs as opposed to sticking them into a shed. The ground is gravelly, shallow soil type so they won't sink down through it. Think their healthier outside.

Under nitrates regs. it is something like 135kg N to hectare, lowland hoggets produce 6kg so that's about 22 to the hectare. Sacrifice paddocks not allowed and a few other rules about access to the whole of the grazing area, this would seem to go against your plan, but this probably all depends on how long you are planning to do it for. Now there are some shoddy practices out there but regs always seems to be trying to push low cost operators into high cost operations, but that is another rant.

Green farmer

Thanks hillbilly, Better to know what I can and cannt do and stick within the regulations.

galwayhillbilly

its only my interpretation could be wrong, as some of what they recommend doesn't make sense. Such as out-wintered stock having access to the entire farm. To me this means you can't preserve any grass during the closed period and the rotational paddocks that are recommended by teagasc are not to be used in the winter and if you have a fragmented holding does this mean you have to spread your flock all around the farm? Another rule that makes no sense if you have cattle out-wintering as well, you have to have a stocking density of 85kg N Ha which is less than 7 ewes to ha not including your cattle. You might only have 1 cow. Now I can't put anything in my shed legally as I don't have an effluent tank and if I am inspected I am in breach of regs. I can't afford to build a tank at the moment. It doesn't affect me yet as I am only building up stock levels slowly over the last 3 years. It will start to affect me from next year though.

Green farmer

I might give them a buzz , to get further info. In relation to the effluent tank, I assume many sheds don't have one, and sheep are instead kept on straw. ?

galwayhillbilly

Green farmer wrote: »

I might give them a buzz , to get further info. In relation to the effluent tank, I assume many sheds don't have one, and sheep are instead kept on straw. ?

I don't honestly know, my reading is that even straw bedded sheds have to have an effluent tank for seepage, you could list a thousand situations where people are not following this rule and you have to wonder would they be in trouble if there was an inspection or am I being over cautious?

Green farmer

Probably over cautious , I hope

Username John

galwayhillbilly wrote: »

I don't honestly know, my reading is that even straw bedded sheds have to have an effluent tank for seepage, you could list a thousand situations where people are not following this rule and you have to wonder would they be in trouble if there was an inspection or am I being over cautious?

I didn't think this was the case?

This doc refers to the straw requirements, for sheep on a concrete floor, based on their feed (page 4)

The doc does reference the need of a run-off store, if using the same shed for calves

Where a concrete floored house is also used to house calves, a covered floor
channel shall be provided. Provision shall be made for storing effluent run-off

Of course, it could just be I'm looking at the wrong doc / link?

rangler1

galwayhillbilly wrote: »

I don't honestly know, my reading is that even straw bedded sheds have to have an effluent tank for seepage, you could list a thousand situations where people are not following this rule and you have to wonder would they be in trouble if there was an inspection or am I being over cautious?

If you have an inspection and there's seepage coming out of it, you're penalised, so it's down to how well you bed the sheep,
wouldn't be a problem with ewes eating hay or straw

AnFeirmeoir

What do others do with concrete yard run off ? Does this need to go into a tank? if so surely it would fill with rainwater in no time?

Green farmer

Just say for waste bedding, a manure heep , does that have to be kept indoors or on concrete or anything like that ? Are there restrictions as to what time of year you can spread manure ? I'd only have very small quantities each year, but still wouldn't like to break any regulations.


Just googled answer.... Dung spreading not allowed in November and December each year

rangler1

AnFeirmeoir wrote: »

What do others do with concrete yard run off ? Does this need to go into a tank? if so surely it would fill with rainwater in no time?

Keep the yard swept, clean water can go anywhere, but if you have a mucky yard it has to be tanked, we sweep the yard here after every use

rangler1

Green farmer wrote: »

Just say for waste bedding, a manure heep , does that have to be kept indoors or on concrete or anything like that ? Are there restrictions as to what time of year you can spread manure ? I'd only have very small quantities each year, but still wouldn't like to break any regulations.

You can spread the Farmyard Manure in our area from the 15th Jan to the 1st Nov or store it in the field between those dates, so store it in the field and spread before 1st nov. If you store it on concrete, you have to have a tank for the effluent

ganmo

rangler1 wrote: »

You can spread the Farmyard Manure in our area from the 15th Jan to the 1st Nov or store it in the field between those dates, so store it in the field and spread before 1st nov. If you store it on concrete, you have to have a tank for the effluent

is that if its stored on concrete during the closed months or anytime?

Green farmer

I'm quiet happy to follow all the rules. I would hate to get done for rules that I didn't know even existed. Good to know what can and cannt be done.

rangler1

ganmo wrote: »

is that if its stored on concrete during the closed months or anytime?

Anytime, wouldn't be 100%sure so check with teagasc

rangler1

Green farmer wrote: »

I'm quiet happy to follow all the rules. I would hate to get done for rules that I didn't know even existed. Good to know what can and cannt be done.

Yea, not great to be learning the day of the inspection. I hate storing dung in the field, makes a right mess, I've a grand slab and all but you'd be sick drawing rain water all year

Green farmer

galwayhillbilly wrote: »

Under nitrates regs. it is something like 135kg N to hectare, lowland hoggets produce 6kg so that's about 22 to the hectare .

Spoke to the nitrates section. Told me it's 170kg nitrogen per hectare per annum. A lowland ewe and lamb is 13kg, so allowed up to 13 ewes per hectare. Fertiliser is separate from these figures. They just look at your overall acreage and overall stocking rate for the year to work out your total nitrates. After that any advice about how you move about your sheep would be a local dvo issue.
I found them very helpful, it's good to know the limits so you can work within them.

I think there's different ratings for lowland ewes versus hill sheep. Rangler might advice on how llyen x ewes are classified ?

orm0nd

there should be no problems with straw bedded sheds as long as the straw absorbs all the effluent,

we are very close to a river & my adviser recommended putting a concrete lip across the door ways

we had an inspection last year and no comments on the shed however we have a clear yard area opening on to a collecting yard , which is serviced by a tank for run off , I had a channel dividing the 2 areas and the inspector requested that a concrete mound be put there as well,

rangler1

Green farmer wrote: »

Spoke to the nitrates section. Told me it's 170kg nitrogen per hectare per annum. A lowland ewe and lamb is 13kg, so allowed up to 13 ewes per hectare. Fertiliser is separate from these figures. They just look at your overall acreage and overall stocking rate for the year to work out your total nitrates. After that any advice about how you move about your sheep would be a local dvo issue.
I found them very helpful, it's good to know the limits so you can work within them.

I think there's different ratings for lowland ewes versus hill sheep. Rangler might advice on how llyen x ewes are classified ?

Mature sheep would be averag 75kgs (texel influence) so I'd have to admit to them being lowland sheep....depends what they're crossed with.

Green farmer

I think teagasc are doing research up in athenry about low, medium and high stocked rates. I think once you go above a certain rate your output per ha drops very fast. At 13 or more to ha I'd imagine you'd want very good land with alot of fertiliser spread and a lot of things going right for you. I've a lot less then 13 ha, in around half that and I find it hard to keep them all feed at times.

rangler1

Green farmer wrote: »

I think teagasc are doing research up in athenry about low, medium and high stocked rates. I think once you go above a certain rate your output per ha drops very fast. At 13 or more to ha I'd imagine you'd want very good land with alot of fertiliser spread and a lot of things going right for you. I've a lot less then 13 ha, in around half that and I find it hard to keep them all feed at times.

We're at 10/ha here, but keeping 50 more ewes this year, so that'll be 11/ha,
Looking forward to seeing how it works out.
Buying in all the winter feed makes a big difference

galwayhillbilly

rangler1 wrote: »

If you have an inspection and there's seepage coming out of it, you're penalised, so it's down to how well you bed the sheep,
wouldn't be a problem with ewes eating hay or straw

just wondering if a six inch lip on the edge of the slab all around thus stopping any seepage would get you out of jail. obviously cattle would create too much liquid for this to work but sheep would be a different story