Help/Advice on HTPC processors (for xbmc)

Lawros Tache

Hi All

I appreciate this has been done to death but if anyone could spare any advice i'd really appreciate it.


I'm just getting into the whole HTPC area, solely for the purposes of xbmc.


I already have a tronsmart s89 and minix x8-H both on android which i find great, easy to use and very responsive. Both are on custom ROMs.


I am now looking for something with a little more "ooomph" for my mancave.


How would something like this fare out: eBay htpc


The issue i have is that i just dont understand the difference in processing power between the

(i) older dual core intels and the

(i) 1037u (readily available for xbmc boxes) or the

(iii) newer i3's.

The above link reads very well but would i be just as well sticking with the dedicated xbmc boxes, or go for an actual "mini pc".

Obviously i'd expect the i3 mini pcs to be a better machine but would it be worth the price difference purely to run xbmc, or would above link run it just as well?

I'd much prefer to "buy right, buy once" and budget would be up to euro250 for the right setup.

Thanks so much for the input.

johnybean

You havent saiod what file types you will be playing and you havent said how you will be serving the files up (NAS etc) but here is my setup and I am very happy with it.

Intel Nuc

SSD

4GB RAM

Flirc IR receiver - (You can programme this IR receiver to work with ant existing remote)

I have installed openelec to the SSD and startup takes less than 10 seconds. I dont use any addons, never bothered with them. All my movies and tv shows are being served from an HP microserver which currently has about 7 TB of stuff on it (and growing)

You could save a few quid by downgrading SSD and RAM as what i have spec'ed is probably overkill for an openelec htpc but it gives me the option to upgrade to windows in the future should I wish to.

The FLirc receiver is also optional, I believe that most microsoft remotes will work out of the box with the nuc (this model has a built in ir receiver) but I already had the flirc so I just programmed it to work with my Sony remote and it works fine (I get some double clicks registering at times but it works well 99% of the time)

All of the above comes to £200 so should be in or around your budget.

If you need anything else let me know

Dravokivich

It's going to be rather bulky.

Those are PCs generally built for office work, so by slotting in an old graphics card, i doubt it'd be enough to make a htpc out of it.

There's also very little room for expansion, such as adding additional HDDs if you want to increase storage on the HTPC.

160GB will only do you if you tend to delete after you've finished watching something.

To be honest, if I was to look at this, it would be from the approach that'll it'll be a short term solution to tide me over while I look into putting something together.

For that price range you are possibly better off sticking with the Android boxes.

Lawros Tache

Thanks guys for replies, very much appreciated.

@johnybean That's pretty much the answer i was looking for, thank you! I like xbmc, and have various addons installed (for live tv) but also have a 2TB & a 3TB external drives which house my tv shows and movies and which i have linked to library in xbmc (i like have tv show descriptions, graphics, subscriptions etc.)

The spec you have linked to I actually have the exact ones saved in my Amazon shopping basket. I too aim to run openelec (or maybe xbmc live, but sertainly linux based) but still like the idea of the 60gb ssd & 4gb of RAM.
I was just about to pull the trigger but wanted to check first on here re the pros & cons of other builds within my price range.

I'm not too bothered (at the moment) about playing huge HD files (or 4k for that matter) but simply for tv shows & movies for family nights and also some music.
I didn't want to spend eur200 on one system when for 50 quid more i could maybe get something much better. If i could only do that by spending eur400 then i'd "settle" for the eur200 one but would go up to eur 300 happily enough if it would make a noticable difference.


@Dravokivich Thanks very much for input. It was more the processing power i was interested in than the practical implications of a large unit, i was simply offering an example of a certain processor for a certain price versus a similarily priced modern unit but thank you again.

johnybean

Well I am happy enough with that setup. it plays 10-15GB rips no problem and I have loaded up Aeon Nox skin and menus fly by with no slowdowns. To step up to a Nuc with an i3 processor is gonna be double the price and for what you will be doing I think that would be overkill.

Lawros Tache

@ johnybean that's pretty much what i needed to know, and made my mind up.
Thanks very much, really appreciate it.

tommycahir

johnybean wrote: »

You havent saiod what file types you will be playing and you havent said how you will be serving the files up (NAS etc) but here is my setup and I am very happy with it.

Intel Nuc

SSD

4GB RAM

Flirc IR receiver - (You can programme this IR receiver to work with ant existing remote)

I have installed openelec to the SSD and startup takes less than 10 seconds. I dont use any addons, never bothered with them. All my movies and tv shows are being served from an HP microserver which currently has about 7 TB of stuff on it (and growing)

You could save a few quid by downgrading SSD and RAM as what i have spec'ed is probably overkill for an openelec htpc but it gives me the option to upgrade to windows in the future should I wish to.

The FLirc receiver is also optional, I believe that most microsoft remotes will work out of the box with the nuc (this model has a built in ir receiver) but I already had the flirc so I just programmed it to work with my Sony remote and it works fine (I get some double clicks registering at times but it works well 99% of the time)

All of the above comes to £200 so should be in or around your budget.

If you need anything else let me know

I have a WDTV Live streaming player in the sitting room now for a few years and while it still plays everything that is thrown at it, it just has never been any good at scraping the content and is a pig to navigate through 500+ movies with and WDTV firmware tends to break something with each release.. So I have been playing around with xbmc/kodi on openelec on a raspberry pi B for a few months now and really am liking it, Now I am considering replacing the WDTV in the sitting room with a similar set-up to the one you have above.. So a couple of questions on the NUC..
1) What level of noise is there from it if just left running the whole time? + for WDTV was that this was non existent..
2) What is the power consumption of it? + for WDTV was it
3) How future proofed is the processor here? will it struggle in a few years time? is it worth getting the next NUC box up?

I have all my media stored on a NAS in the attic so am not worried about storage but noise, future proofing and power consumption would be main points for me..

johnybean

tommycahir wrote: »

I have a WDTV Live streaming player in the sitting room now for a few years and while it still plays everything that is thrown at it, it just has never been any good at scraping the content and is a pig to navigate through 500+ movies with and WDTV firmware tends to break something with each release.. So I have been playing around with xbmc/kodi on openelec on a raspberry pi B for a few months now and really am liking it, Now I am considering replacing the WDTV in the sitting room with a similar set-up to the one you have above.. So a couple of questions on the NUC..
1) What level of noise is there from it if just left running the whole time? + for WDTV was that this was non existent..
2) What is the power consumption of it? + for WDTV was it
3) How future proofed is the processor here? will it struggle in a few years time? is it worth getting the next NUC box up?

I have all my media stored on a NAS in the attic so am not worried about storage but noise, future proofing and power consumption would be main points for me..

Noise from fan is minimal, I can't speak for what it would be like if left on constantly because I turn it off when not in use as openelec takes about 10 seconds to boot from cold.
I'm not sure about exact figures but the nucs are designed to have very low power consumption.
If you have the budget for an i3 then perhaps that would be so slightly more future proof, I am not concerned about 4k or what's beyond as I will probably be upgrading my htpc by the time I have any 4k compatible equipment. As of now my nuc meets my needs and should do for the foreseeable future.
Hope that helps

tommycahir

johnybean wrote: »

Noise from fan is minimal, I can't speak for what it would be like if left on constantly because I turn it off when not in use as openelec takes about 10 seconds to boot from cold.
I'm not sure about exact figures but the nucs are designed to have very low power consumption.
If you have the budget for an i3 then perhaps that would be so slightly more future proof, I am not concerned about 4k or what's beyond as I will probably be upgrading my htpc by the time I have any 4k compatible equipment. As of now my nuc meets my needs and should do for the foreseeable future.
Hope that helps

Thanks, will have to do some more research on the NUC as to which one to get, TBH anything will be an upgrade on the WDTV box in terms of usability at the moment!

johnybean

TBH,

I was guilty of paralysis through analysis when it came to getting an htpc. Eventually I decided to get something that would cater to my actual needs for the foreseeable future and not what I thought I may need this one time in the next 2-3 years. I have a 6 TB library of movies and tv shows, currently replacing previous copies of older movies (1.4-2GB rips) with "proper" 10GB rips as well as getting "proper" copies of the latest movies. Playback of anything I have in my library (Including ISOs) is flawless. Fast forward and rewind is a bit hit and miss but I just use the up/down/left right buttons to skip forward/backwards 5 or 30 seconds whenever I need to. I am currently using Cirrus extended skin with showcase mod view for movies, this is a fairly heavy view with lots of fanart and I can scan through the library with fanart loading immediately.
I was going to spec an i3 NUC and try soem emulators on it but I am not that big into gaming so i3 would have been overkill for my needs.
In the next couple of years I hope to extend the house I am in, do up a designated theatre room kitted with 5.1 or 7.1 sound and a 4k projector. When this is taking place I will probably have a go at self building a dedicated gaming/media htpc which will be completely overkill but will be in place for a good while (I hope) but until then I can see myself using the NUC quite happily.
just to note, I have also used a Rpi, and ouya and a 3 year old celeron laptop for xbmc and the NUC is light years ahead of any of them with regards to browsing speed and scanning libraries but I would also note that none of the previous machines had any problem with media playback so that is also something to bare in mind if you dont require all of the bells and whistles.

Nemeses2050

Hello, I have been looking for an HTPC myself...and I liked the look of this Lenovo PC...price wise it works same or probably less than a NUC after adding all the bits.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00LM9T3YW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2RDWUZIZRG1MY&coliid=I3GRGWSM4GEJ6I&psc=1

johnybean

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

Hello, I have been looking for an HTPC myself...and I liked the look of this Lenovo PC...price wise it works same or probably less than a NUC after adding all the bits.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00LM9T3YW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2RDWUZIZRG1MY&coliid=I3GRGWSM4GEJ6I&psc=1

I had a quick look at the Q190 but its slightly older than the NUC and although I havent read the whole way through, there seem to be some issues with file playback here
Granted, some of the users on the Kodi forums can tend to gripe about some very specific issues which may have no effect on most "average joe" users, but thought I would share that thread so you could have a look through yourself.

Windows 8 licence is a nice bonus if you want a handy Netflix/xbmc all-in-one machine

Nemeses2050

johnybean wrote: »

I had a quick look at the Q190 but its slightly older than the NUC and although I havent read the whole way through, there seem to be some issues with file playback here
Granted, some of the users on the Kodi forums can tend to gripe about some very specific issues which may have no effect on most "average joe" users, but thought I would share that thread so you could have a look through yourself.

Windows 8 licence is a nice bonus if you want a handy Netflix/xbmc all-in-one machine

my only concern is the processor I would have liked something like i3 that would probably push the price high I guess...As per Amazon reviews it's great and the only 1 star was due to Windows 8.1 update....

I agree about XBMC forum though...They gripe at every little thing

Francie Barrett

Lawros Tache wrote: »

Obviously i'd expect the i3 mini pcs to be a better machine but would it be worth the price difference purely to run xbmc, or would above link run it just as well?

i3 is overkill.

I have a Raspberry Pi (700mhz processor, 512MB RAM), which is about the slowest device you can get, and it manages to run XBMC just fine. While there is sometimes very minor lag when navigating menu's, it's not enough to annoy you. 1080p movies play perfectly once they get going. One of the nice things about the Pi is power consumption is tiny and it makes no noise at all. You can leave a Pi on for the year and it'll only cost you about €4-€5 on electricity. Another benefit of the Pi is the cost, it really does cost bugger all to get set up. The board itself is €35, you probably have an SD card and USB charger lying around, a case is a fiver, a wireless dongle no more than €10.

I also have an Intel NUC DN2820FYKH (Intel Celeron Dual Core, 8GB RAM) and I set it up to run XBMC as well. This had no lag whatsoever and when you're doing the one-time library set up it does crunch through the files quicker. Unfortunately though, it's not totally quiet (you can just about hear it in a quiet room) and the power draw down is about 3x that of the Pi. There is also a much greater cost. €130 for the box, €35-€70 for RAM (depending on how much you feel you need, €50 for the SSD hd (assuming you go for the smallest one you can find (20GB or so).

NUC is 4x more expensive than the Pi - but in reality, it's not worth the cash just to be able to navigate through menu's without lag.

johnybean

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

my only concern is the processor I would have liked something like i3 that would probably push the price high I guess...As per Amazon reviews it's great and the only 1 star was due to Windows 8.1 update....

I agree about XBMC forum though...They gripe at every little thing

What are your needs?

• What kind of files will you be serving to the htpc - "aquired" content, ISO, MKV etc
• Will you be serving files from a NAS or using an internal hard drive?
• Will you be doing any gaming?
• Do you require Netflix?
• Will you be doing anything outside of htpc use?

Nemeses2050

johnybean wrote: »

What are your needs?

• What kind of files will you be serving to the htpc - "aquired" content, ISO, MKV etc
• Will you be serving files from a NAS or using an internal hard drive?
• Will you be doing any gaming?
• Do you require Netflix?
• Will you be doing anything outside of htpc use?

I have my movies on a 1TB external HD, but it's not a big collection...I would mostly be using it for Streaming like XBMC/Netflix..and No gaming either...

johnybean

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

I have my movies on a 1TB external HD, but it's not a big collection...I would mostly be using it for Streaming like XBMC/Netflix..and No gaming either...

Main issue would be Netflix. Its not straightforward on a Pi. You will need something running windows to play Netflix if you want a straightforward system. You can get Netflix working within xbmc on a Linux install (Netflixbmc) but its not as straightforward as having a windows install. I cant speak for the NUCs performance with windows but I believe Windows 8 is less resource hungry than 7 so perhaps that is something to look into.

Nemeses2050

johnybean wrote: »

Main issue would be Netflix. Its not straightforward on a Pi. You will need something running windows to play Netflix if you want a straightforward system. You can get Netflix working within xbmc on a Linux install (Netflixbmc) but its not as straightforward as having a windows install. I cant speak for the NUCs performance with windows but I believe Windows 8 is less resource hungry than 7 so perhaps that is something to look into.

I know some people like their Pi very much...but I'm not very keen on it...I do have a Minix Neo 7 streaming box for XBMC and it is great...but there's so many things that work well with windows compared to other OS...So I have been on the look out for a not so expensive HTPC but which should be a bit future proof too, i know i'm asking too much...:D

Johnboy1951

johnybean wrote: »

Main issue would be Netflix. Its not straightforward on a Pi. You will need something running windows to play Netflix if you want a straightforward system. You can get Netflix working within xbmc on a Linux install (Netflixbmc) but its not as straightforward as having a windows install. I cant speak for the NUCs performance with windows but I believe Windows 8 is less resource hungry than 7 so perhaps that is something to look into.

Netflix is available on Linux as well as Windows. There is no need for Windows to access Netflix, since Netflix dropped the requirement for Silverlight. Chrome and Firefox (and possibly other browsers) will do Netflix.

johnybean

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Netflix is available on Linux as well as Windows. There is no need for Windows to access Netflix, since Netflix dropped the requirement for Silverlight. Chrome and Firefox (and possibly other browsers) will do Netflix.

That's what I said in the line after the one you highlighted, Netflix is available on Linux and also in Linux within xbmc through netflixbmc as I was saying. Just meant that it is slightly more straightforward on Windows

Johnboy1951

johnybean wrote: »

That's what I said in the line after the one you highlighted, Netflix is available on Linux and also in Linux within xbmc through netflixbmc as I was saying. Just meant that it is slightly more straightforward on Windows

I dunno how it could be any more straightforward than opening it in the browser in Linux ..... which is all that is required .....

johnybean

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I dunno how it could be any more straightforward than opening it in the browser in Linux ..... which is all that is required .....

I was talking about doing it from within xbmc

CinSoots

I built a htpc to run Plex, xbmc, crashplan etc. Have a NAS in the attic storing all the media and the htpc. The htpc has an Intel pentium G3258 and its solid as a rock. I've tested it transcoding 3 x 720p streams at the same time and works perfectly. Will transcode two 1080p streams at the same time. The front end at the TV is an M8 Android box but a Chromecast or Now TV box would do just as good.

I paid €150 for the htpc build using srcond hand parts from adverts and a new chip & mobo. I did a lot of research into the chip and I'm very pleased with its ability and so far has played/transcoded everything with ease so would highly recommend the G3258.

Johnboy1951

johnybean wrote: »

I was talking about doing it from within xbmc

OK ........ I would have expected that doing it within XBMC in Linux would be the as straightforward as doing it within XBMC in Windows.

Never having done that in Windows I have no knowledge of what the differences might be.

Dravokivich

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

OK ........ I would have expected that doing it within XBMC in Linux would be the as straightforward as doing it within XBMC in Windows.

Never having done that in Windows I have no knowledge of what the differences might be.

NetfliXBMC, just lets you navigate within XBMC and then launches Chrome when you make a selection.

tommycahir

Interestingly it looks like Intel are planning to release the next iteration of the NUC from Q1/Q2 next year with the entry level model based on celeron processor to be available from Q2 next year

http://www.fanlesstech.com/2014/08/exclusive-intel-readying-nuc-20.html?m=0

massy086

http://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-Chromebox-CB1-020NG-F8T63EA-Intel%C2%AE/dp/B00LN3JS6A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1418251122&sr=8-2&keywords=chromebox i just got the asus one of these in new york. it was a steal at 139$ so could not say no.best bang for the book htpc i think 4gb ram 16gb ssd wireless and bt .i will report back next week once i have it running open-elec

tommycahir

The Celeron NUC is now reduced on ebuyer for anybody interested in it
http://www.ebuyer.com/614389-intel-nuc-kit-celeron-n2820-2-4ghz-hdmi-barebone-boxdn2820fykh0
I would expect to see all the 4th gen and celeron versions reduced over the next few weeks as retailers try to clear the stocks ahead of the new versions

Intel have also announced the new range of NUCs on their site and they can be recognised by 1st glance by the addition of a fast charging yellow USB port on the front
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/products-overview.html
The i3 will be shipped in February and the i5 will be shipped in March. You can see it when you`re click on the NUC pictures. (direct under the heading)

It does look though that they have initially dropped the celeron version of the NUC to be replaced with the i3 or even the recently announced compute stick - Link

It looks like they have dropped the

Johnboy1951

I had previously read that the Intel Compute Stick comes in two hardware levels, the better device having Windows installed and the lesser device without any OS.

The link above seems to indicate that the lesser device will have a version of Linux on it ..... without saying there is a difference in hardware.

Just something to watch out for if considering this device

EDIT:
Found the reference
http://www.geek.com/chips/intel-compute-stick-runs-windows-and-linux-fits-in-your-pocket-1612943/

tommycahir

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I had previously read that the Intel Compute Stick comes in two hardware levels, the better device having Windows installed and the lesser device without any OS.

The link above seems to indicate that the lesser device will have a version of Linux on it ..... without saying there is a difference in hardware.

Just something to watch out for if considering this device

EDIT:
Found the reference
http://www.geek.com/chips/intel-compute-stick-runs-windows-and-linux-fits-in-your-pocket-1612943/

Yeah there will be a difference between the hardware levels

The Compute comes in two flavours: Windows 8.1 and Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.
The Windows 8.1 version offers up 32GB of eMMC storage and 2GB RAM. The Ubuntu model offers less, at 8GB eMMC and 1GB RAM respectively — still capable enough for running a full GNOME Shell, Pantheon or Cinnamon desktop.
Intel Compute Stick PC Specifications

• Quad-core Intel Atom Z3735F @ 1.33GHz (1.83GHz boost)
• 2GB RAM (Windows), 1GB RAM (Ubuntu)
• 32GB eMMC (Windows), 8GB eMMC (Ubuntu)
• Full-sized HDMI Out
• 1x USB 2.0
• 1x MicroUSB
• MicroSD Card Slot
• Bluetooth 4.0
• Wi-Fi

Other commonalities between both models include: on-board Wi-Fi 802.11b/g/n and Bluetooth 4.0, a microSD card slot for extra storage, a single USB 2.0 port and a microUSB port for power.
A full-size HDMI-out connector sits at the end of the stick to let you plug it in directly, though Intel includes a little extender wire should your monitor’s HDMI-in port be awkwardly placed.
The Ubuntu version of the Compute Stick will sell for $89. The Windows 8.1 version will sell for $149.


Reference - http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/01/intel-compute-stick-specs-ubuntu-version


I really like this but would rather have wired connection to the NAS, I really don't think wifi is stable enough alot of the time.

Johnboy1951

I agree about Wifi ..... particularly with high quality video files or streams.

I believe I would be more inclined to buy the Windows product for the better hardware and then ditch Windows and use Linux.

It is a real pity they did not do with this what they did with the NUC series ....... sell them barebones with different hardware specs.

jaggiebunnet

Question for those with the NUC - I was wondering if anyone would test a sample MTS file for me - it is off an Panasonic video camera. I have a pi running xbmc and these are the only files it cannot play without massive stuttering - they play fine in my laptop. I need to get a new xbmc box and reuse the pi one elsewhere but if I am getting a new one i want it to be able to play these files - if you are willing can you PM me and I will send a link to a sample file - thanks!

Ste-

jaggiebunnet wrote: »

Question for those with the NUC - I was wondering if anyone would test a sample MTS file for me - it is off an Panasonic video camera. I have a pi running xbmc and these are the only files it cannot play without massive stuttering - they play fine in my laptop. I need to get a new xbmc box and reuse the pi one elsewhere but if I am getting a new one i want it to be able to play these files - if you are willing can you PM me and I will send a link to a sample file - thanks!

If you link me a file I can test it on my intel DN2820FYKH. OpenElec 5.0.

Johnboy1951

jaggiebunnet wrote: »

Question for those with the NUC - I was wondering if anyone would test a sample MTS file for me - it is off an Panasonic video camera. I have a pi running xbmc and these are the only files it cannot play without massive stuttering - they play fine in my laptop. I need to get a new xbmc box and reuse the pi one elsewhere but if I am getting a new one i want it to be able to play these files - if you are willing can you PM me and I will send a link to a sample file - thanks!

Are you accessing the file over Wifi or with an Ethernet cable?
If Wifi try with a cable, or the file stored on a USB drive.

I will check my Pi later today .... but it is wired

jaggiebunnet

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Are you accessing the file over Wifi or with an Ethernet cable?
If Wifi try with a cable, or the file stored on a USB drive.

I will check my Pi later today .... but it is wired

Yeah over ethernet. Wifi just wouldn't cut it. It is not the file size I can play massive files no problem over the cable - it is, I think anyway, to do with fps or something, it can only buffer about 8-12 seconds.

Johnboy1951

I got a chance to try it.

I too get the video playing and then stopping for a brief moment and then continuing.

I believe it might be the fps that is too high for the Pi as well as the very high video bitrate.

jaggiebunnet

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I got a chance to try it.

I too get the video playing and then stopping for a brief moment and then continuing.

I believe it might be the fps that is too high for the Pi as well as the very high video bitrate.

good to see it is not just me - thanks!

Johnboy1951

I also tried the file on an i5 NUC played into a 720 TV ....... the result was not good ..... artifacts etc.

I don't know what the NUC would be like playing into a Full HD TV ...... might get a chance to try it tonight ....

Ste-

Tried that file on my nuc too. Lots of stutter. Cpus never got over 40%.

Ste-

Tried it on my nexus 5 aswell. Same effect.

jaggiebunnet

Thanks for the feedback guys - appreciate it !

CantGetNoSleep

How much better would the ebuyer be than smething like a Pipo x7?

(http://www.ebuyer.com/614389-intel-nuc-kit-celeron-n2820-2-4ghz-hdmi-barebone-boxdn2820fykh0)

Main use would be for XBMC so may use openelec but would also like to consider buying a Windows license to use it as a back up PC (MS office & web-browsing only)

Johnboy1951

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

How much better would the ebuyer be than smething like a Pipo x7?

(http://www.ebuyer.com/614389-intel-nuc-kit-celeron-n2820-2-4ghz-hdmi-barebone-boxdn2820fykh0)

Main use would be for XBMC so may use openelec but would also like to consider buying a Windows license to use it as a back up PC (MS office & web-browsing only)

No need to buy a Win licence for that .... install a Linux distro without the licence cost as dual boot, and use Firefox/Chrome and Libre/Open office, or one of a few others available cost free.