TB arbitration

Count Mondego · 26-11-2014 7:20pm #1

Lads,

Any of you gone through a TB arbitration after a bad valuation. The department vetoed the first valuation and the next lad knocked a good lump off to justify his mileage. Pissed off with this now. It's only four animals but more the principle than anything else.

It wouldn't be worth my while if I had to take a day off work and drive to Portlaoise for an arbitration meeting, which is how it was described to me by a department fellow. Can this be done with a written submission or phone call?

awaywithyou · 26-11-2014 8:42pm

Count Mondego wrote: »

Lads,

Any of you gone through a TB arbitration after a bad valuation. The department vetoed the first valuation and the next lad knocked a good lump off to justify his mileage. Pissed off with this now. It's only four animals but more the principle than anything else.

It wouldn't be worth my while if I had to take a day off work and drive to Portlaoise for an arbitration meeting, which is how it was described to me by a department fellow. Can this be done with a written submission or phone call?

went thru this couple of years ago... you must turn up to a meeting.. put forward your case... the dept will have a guy there putting forward there case and the three men who make up the arbitration panel will listen to both sides, make up there mind and send you a letter a few days later with there recommendation.... which you will have to accept

AP2014 · 26-11-2014 8:57pm

awaywithyou wrote: »

went thru this couple of years ago... you must turn up to a meeting.. put forward your case... the dept will have a guy there putting forward there case and the three men who make up the arbitration panel will listen to both sides, make up there mind and send you a letter a few days later with there recommendation.... which you will have to accept

Did ya win or lose? I have a feeling it does't work out to well most of the time.

awaywithyou · 26-11-2014 9:38pm

AP2014 wrote: »

Did ya win or lose? I have a feeling it does't work out to well most of the time.

won... the dept brought case against us! they rejected first valuation.. appointed there own man to do second one.. he valued cattle higher than first lad....! they also rejected that.... went to arbitration... we arrived prepared.. well prepared... brought a solicitor with us... we were awarded the second valuation...

AP2014 · 26-11-2014 9:45pm

awaywithyou wrote: »

won... the dept brought case against us! they rejected first valuation.. appointed there own man to do second one.. he valued cattle higher than first lad....! they also rejected that.... went to arbitration... we arrived prepared.. well prepared... brought a solicitor with us... we were awarded the second valuation...

Good stuff, did they pay solicitor fee for ya?

blue5000 · 26-11-2014 10:21pm

Going through the motions with this too, do I have to scan reactor cows or does it depend on whether they show up in calf or not in the factory?

J.O. Farmer · 26-11-2014 10:31pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Going through the motions with this too, do I have to scan reactor cows or does it depend on whether they show up in calf or not in the factory?

No it's whether they're in calf in the factory. Whoever values them will put 2 prices for in calf or not in calf and when they factory them they check.
We'd one went down and got her scanned as we were scanning the day of the test anyway. She had something in her probably mummified but the scanner didn't like it. We got the 2 valuations but were paid on the not in calf basis.

Count Mondego · 27-11-2014 12:15am

awaywithyou wrote: »

went thru this couple of years ago... you must turn up to a meeting.. put forward your case... the dept will have a guy there putting forward there case and the three men who make up the arbitration panel will listen to both sides, make up there mind and send you a letter a few days later with there recommendation.... which you will have to accept

Won't bother so, not worth my while. The valuation is a f#ckin joke. 6 year old pedigree bull worth probably 3k and getting a cull cow price for him. Their valuations knock 20% of value off for each breeding season, compound interest. Great bunch of lads. Will cost 4k to replace.

sako 85 · 27-11-2014 7:48am

If its not going to cost you more than a day off work, it might be worth fighting it out if you feel you are being hard done by. Best of luck whatever you do.

Nettleman · 27-11-2014 9:08am

Count Mondego wrote: »

Won't bother so, not worth my while. The valuation is a f#ckin joke. 6 year old pedigree bull worth probably 3k and getting a cull cow price for him. Their valuations knock 20% of value off for each breeding season, compound interest. Great bunch of lads. Will cost 4k to replace.

Im sorry your in this situation CM, and its vexing that Dept don't show a bit of compassion to farmers who take news of a reactor very badly. you will get a letter about a hardship grant as well, but you would be in hardship if you had to rely on it.
My suggestion on the hearing, would be to notify them in advance in writing that you intend to be there, with legal representation and agri advisor, and you intend to recover all these costs, including loss of earnings and mileage at civil service rates from the department. I would also ask that they make available to you well in advance, ALL their mart surveys over the past three months, not just the cherry picked ones which support their lower valuation. I know its a ****e situation, but if you lay down, you will be walked on.

lakill Farm · 27-11-2014 9:31am

Count Mondego wrote: »

Won't bother so, not worth my while. The valuation is a f#ckin joke. 6 year old pedigree bull worth probably 3k and getting a cull cow price for him. Their valuations knock 20% of value off for each breeding season, compound interest. Great bunch of lads. Will cost 4k to replace.

surely he should be valued at replacement cost?

milkprofit · 27-11-2014 10:10am

lakill Farm wrote: »

surely he should be valued at replacement cost?

Fight them for FAiR value

awaywithyou · 27-11-2014 11:31am

Count Mondego wrote: »

Won't bother so, not worth my while. The valuation is a f#ckin joke. 6 year old pedigree bull worth probably 3k and getting a cull cow price for him. Their valuations knock 20% of value off for each breeding season, compound interest. Great bunch of lads. Will cost 4k to replace.

we found the guys on the arbitration panel to be very sound decent lads... if you can put together a good strong case for yourself you'll be in with a shout.. the guy putting the case forward for the dept wasnt great.. (very nice lad.. too nice for the job) he had no research or nothing done.... had a few files of the herd dont think he even bothered to look at them before he came along.....

in our situation it was cows and heifer calves that went down... no bulls.. so cant comment on reactor valuation for them... but i do know of other lads whose stock bulls went down and like you they got a rubbish valuation for them...

if your going the arbitration route.... prepare well... you'll get a fair hearing.. and best of luck

J.O. Farmer · 27-11-2014 11:35am

I think it's unfortunate that it's a bull in some ways. If you went to the mart to sell him chances are he'll only make cull prices and tthat's what the department goes by.
The fact that he's worth the price of a young bull to you (allowing a little for the fact he's older as you've done) doesn't matter to the department.

awaywithyou · 27-11-2014 12:09pm

Nettleman wrote: »

Im sorry your in this situation CM, and its vexing that Dept don't show a bit of compassion to farmers who take news of a reactor very badly. you will get a letter about a hardship grant as well, but you would be in hardship if you had to rely on it.
My suggestion on the hearing, would be to notify them in advance in writing that you intend to be there, with legal representation and agri advisor, and you intend to recover all these costs, including loss of earnings and mileage at civil service rates from the department. I would also ask that they make available to you well in advance, ALL their mart surveys over the past three months, not just the cherry picked ones which support their lower valuation. I know its a ****e situation, but if you lay down, you will be walked on.

as far i remember the dept have to send to you the evidence they will be using to argue their case and you will have to do the same i think... they def sent to us what arguments they would be putting forward.... cant remember if we sent anything back to them

blue5000 · 20-12-2014 9:24pm

OP how did you get on after?

Count Mondego · 21-12-2014 9:33am

blue5000 wrote: »

OP how did you get on after?

Lads, thanks for all the replies. Got on as expected. Second valuer dropped 100 off both of them to justify his petrol. I let them off anyway as I wasn't going to bring a solicitor to arbitration for the sake of two or three hundred. As lads have said here, it's not the replacement value you get which has to be expected.

Interesting though. The department vet came out to check the place and go through the disinfectant stuff. He claimed that the bucket lick minerals are deadly for drawing in badgers. They go mad for it and will travel miles to get it. I'll be making gate hangers from now on.

RobertKK · 21-12-2014 11:00am

Went through something similar a few years ago.

Had a heifer that didn't have a calf but was getting a little old and was being fattened.
First valuation gave her a heifer quote.
Department of agriculture objected, and I had to pick a different person to value her.

Well, here didn't the valuer come out but with a woman from the department came in her car too, she got and was wearing sandals, took one look at the heifer and like herself she declared she was a cow.

I said she wasn't but she wouldn't budge and she was valued as a cow.

Coming to a farm even if the weather was dry and in summer and staying in sandals really pissed me off, she was dressed for leisure, I should have told her to dip her feet in an iodine solution...

blue5000 · 21-12-2014 11:45am

Has anyone done the blood test for TB? I heard it is very severe and can have false positives.

Nekarsulm · 21-12-2014 2:11pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Has anyone done the blood test for TB? I heard it is very severe and can have false positives.[/quote
Are you talking about the blood test in development?
Asked our vet about it, got following reply." Only in development stages, blah blah, lot more cattle will go down, blah blah, false positives , blah blah." Preserve the status quo, I think.
When I had the breakdown, depth blooded everything over one year of age in the herd. Thirteen more went down on the blood.

blue5000 · 21-12-2014 7:05pm

How many of the 13 had visible lesions Neks?

Nekarsulm · 21-12-2014 7:16pm

blue5000 wrote: »

How many of the 13 had visible lesions Neks?

All had. When the rest were depopulated, six more who did not react to the blood, showed lesion's. In the initial test, one cow, about 10 years of age, only showed a slight reaction to the test. If no others had gone down, the vet said she would not have put this cow down. Went to the factory, and was so bad, carcase was skipped. This an animal who had passed at least one test per year, and sometimes two, without any signs of a reaction. Hard to have faith in the procedure when one like her can slip through.

TB arbitration

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