Enforcement of parking in cycle lanes

Pinch Flat

Have an ongoing problem with the cycle lane at the east of St. Stephen's Green - it is opposite a girls primary & secondary school (won't name it).

Recently, I witnessed a cyclist been brushed by a car which shook the cyclist (Thankfully not injured) - the driver kept going. The reason this happened was that the cyclists was moving out of the newly formed cycle lane to avoid a string of 4 or 5 cars parked there, dropping kids to school. Kids and parents regularly exit the right hand side of the car into bikes / cars etc.

This prompted me to write to the school, highlighting my concerns and got a standard "thanks you for your note....we'll continue to remind parents of the danger of this etc etc etc" response.

Also got in touch with the Garda Traffic Division, altering them to the initial situation, then followed up with an email as the problem is ongoing. They replied as follows (to be fair to them, at least they replied - emails to DCC Parking Enforcement have gone unanswered):

Thank you for your update email.

This is an issue which seems to occur outside many schools. The offending vehicles are often parents in situ a matter moments who move away when the Garda vehicle approaches.

As you can appreciate there are numerous areas of the city centre which require Garda attention regarding illegal parking and other traffic related issues. This is even more prevalent regarding illegal parking in the run up to Christmas period.

I will of course forward your most recent email to the Divisional Traffic Inspector concerned.

This is effectively saying yeah we know its' a problem, but couldn't be ar$ed doing anything about it. I wrote back saying perhaps a penalty point and fixed charge (per the existing road traffic offence) would be appropriate, even a blitz for a few mornings. In the meantime, behaviour like the attached photos, taken over a week, goes unpunished. In the middle of a capital city on one of the busiest routes. Where else would you get it?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwpfMvBkOMsPN05samptWC11Mkk/view?usp=sharing

magicbastarder

i don't think it's fair to draw the conclusion in the thread title from their response - saying 'this is a tough issue to police due to prevalence' is not the same as 'we have decided not to police it'.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Thread title is somewhat misleading. I don't think they tolerate it from their reply.

Why did the car that brushed the cyclist not wait an extra couple of seconds?

jgorres

Because the driver was in a hurry. Most probably a BMW.

Pinch Flat

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't think it's fair to draw the conclusion in the thread title from their response - saying 'this is a tough issue to police due to prevalence' is not the same as 'we have decided not to police it'.

Maybe so - thread title was harsh and have amended. The response doesn't give me the feeling that its high on the priority list though.

I wonder what the reaction would be if I parked my car in a traffic lane and headed off - making cars swerve around me. How would this be received by other motorists and the Gardai?

Timmyctc

Thread title is v sensationalist OP. The garda email basically said its a difficult thing to enforce without having a garda car posted at the school (Which in fairness, would be overkill) Why not try simply slashing the tyres of the offending parents.

galwaycyclist

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Maybe so - thread title was harsh and have amended. The response doesn't give me the feeling that its high on the priority list though.

I wonder what the reaction would be if I parked my car in a traffic lane and headed off - making cars swerve around me. How would this be received by other motorists and the Gardai?

Going by what happens around certain schools in Galway, I would not bat an eyelid if the Garda asked you pull your car up onto the footpath or nearest cycle lane and then drive off.

Wishbone Ash

Pinch Flat wrote: »

east of St. Stephen's Green - it is opposite a girls primary & secondary school (won't name it)

It's a bit pointless saying you won't name it when you give its location. There is no other school there.

Pinch Flat wrote:

This prompted me to write to the school, highlighting my concerns and got a standard "thanks you for your note....we'll continue to remind parents of the danger of this etc etc etc" response.

My daughter attends that school and my wife is on the Parents' Committee. I don't recall her saying it had been raised at committee level or parents being notified about the dangers.

Pinch Flat

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It's a bit pointless saying you won't name it when you give its location. There is no other school there.

Ok didn't want to get into any trouble with mods.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

My daughter attends that school and my wife is on the Parents' Committee. I don't recall her saying it had been raised at committee level or parents being notified about the dangers.

Ok have emails from both the principal of the primary and secondary school when I raised this issue with them - would have been Tuesday last week, so not sure of the frequency of the parents committee meeting. Perhaps something you might have an influence in raising?

magicbastarder

re the fact that parking enforcement in DCC not responding to you - AFAIK parking enforcement's job is to police paid parking spots and clearways; i.e clamping and towing. all other parking issues would fall to the gardai to police; not sure from your description whether these would be suitable remedies?

Cookie_Monster

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Where else would you get it?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwpfMvBkOMsPN05samptWC11Mkk/view?usp=sharing

everywhere in Ireland unfortunately. If they are there long enough for you to stop and take photos, they're there long enough for AGS to do the same. An hour every morning spent at a different school inside the canals would soon make people aware and earn them plenty of fines.

magicbastarder

the issue is hardly limited to ireland, either.

Pinch Flat

magicbastarder wrote: »

re the fact that parking enforcement in DCC not responding to you - AFAIK parking enforcement's job is to police paid parking spots and clearways; i.e clamping and towing. all other parking issues would fall to the gardai to police; not sure from your description whether these would be suitable remedies?

Yeah not sure about that. From their website cycling lanes (mandatory - continuous white line) are under the "where not to park" ones

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-roads-and-traffic-parking-dublin/where-park#not

Edit - should add that some of these cars will be blocking the bike lane as well as access to vacant on-street parking slots. So doubly inconsiderate.

RainyDay

You're right to chase the principals, but honestly, I don't think they are going to change parents' behavior by a few notes sent home. I think you're going to have to take stronger action. You could try contacting the relevant Garda Inspector (Kevin St?) and pushing him to do something about the issue. Or you could make a social media fuss - take photos and videos and put them up somewhere, though leave the kids out of it. Or you could make a real-life fuss - block off the cycle lane yourself for a few mornings with a few cones or barriers, and hang round with a few cyclists to stop people parking.

Pinch Flat

RainyDay wrote: »

You're right to chase the principals, but honestly, I don't think they are going to change parents' behavior by a few notes sent home. I think you're going to have to take stronger action. You could try contacting the relevant Garda Inspector (Kevin St?) and pushing him to do something about the issue. Or you could make a social media fuss - take photos and videos and put them up somewhere, though leave the kids out of it. Or you could make a real-life fuss - block off the cycle lane yourself for a few mornings with a few cones or barriers, and hang round with a few cyclists to stop people parking.

I suppose this is the first time I've really pursued something like this. Seeing a fellow cyclist put in harms way and almost coming to a serious injury because of the stupidity and selfishness of others is what's really spurned me on.

I'm kind of surprised with the Gardai's response, they start off by stating the obvious and acknowledging its a problem. My read of this is that the dam has burst and there's no point doing anything about it. In fact one of the motorists I spoke to fully acknowledged she was parking illegally and causing danger to others, but hey she has to stop to drop her kids. So it's a cycle of nonchalance and lack of enforcement - seeing others doing it and getting away with it merely reinforces the behaviour and adds to the problem.

I'm going to leave it as is - not sure what the impact of a fuss either on social media or creating a fuss at the lane would have. I had considered printing a few leaflets and sticking them under the wipers of the offenders, but if your social compass is so flawed that you park like this they're likely to be discarded on the ground.

Will be adopting my cycling to deal with this in this area in future to take this on board - it's a shame, shiny new bike lane that is effectively a car park - sadly it looks like it's going to be something that remains unresolved. A central lane position will be one of the safer options rather than trying to change the behaviour of selfish people.

Wishbone Ash

Pinch Flat wrote: »

....Recently, I witnessed a cyclist been brushed by a car which shook the cyclist (Thankfully not injured)...

Pinch Flat wrote: »

... Seeing a fellow cyclist put in harms way and almost coming to a serious injury...

Did the cyclist move across into the other lane without checking that it was safe to do so?

Leaving aside the fact that the vehicles dropping children to school were parked illegally, there are several vehicles which are legally entitled to drive in or stop in cycle tracks and that cyclist could just have easily encountered such vehicles/drivers.

Pinch Flat

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Did the cyclist move across into the other lane without checking that it was safe to do so?

Dunno. What alerted me was the bang of the wing mirror hitting her as he brushed past. She was cycling behind me when this happened. So you've got to avoid the car, the doors swinging open and the kids exiting on the drivers side.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Leaving aside the fact that the vehicles dropping children to school were parked illegally, there are several vehicles which are legally entitled to drive in or stop in cycle tracks and that cyclist could just have easily encountered such vehicles/drivers.

Not sure of the relevance of this, yeah sure you could come across a taxi, bin lorry, ambulance or whatever in any given cycle lane in Dublin. It's a common occurrence. I didn't chat too much with her about her past encounters.

But in this case it's a clear case of illegal and inconsiderate parking in a particular mandatory cycle lane in a particular location. It's just been redeveloped / realigned to make it more cycle friendly and its being abused by a chort of motorists.

Unknown Soldier

There's only one person looking out for you, and that's you, regardless.

ronn

Everybody knows there's not enough cops to enforce any laws let alone petty offences, be it parking on a cycle lane on Stephens green or dealing drugs on the boardwalk,
The chances of getting caught are slim to none,
Not the cops fault either, they can only do so much

Pinch Flat

ronn wrote: »

Everybody knows there's not enough cops to enforce any laws let alone petty offences, be it parking on a cycle lane on Stephens green or dealing drugs on the boardwalk,
The chances of getting caught are slim to none,
Not the cops fault either, they can only do so much

That's the case okay. The more we accept this the more it becomes regularised.

galwaycyclist

I don't suppose its relevant to point out that it is highly likely that "providing a safe route to school" is probably among the reasons given for marking this cycle lane?

Pinch Flat

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I don't suppose its relevant to point out that it is highly likely that "providing a safe route to school" is probably among the reasons given for marking this cycle lane?

That would be truly ironic.

spyderski

Pinch Flat wrote: »

But in this case it's a clear case of illegal and inconsiderate parking in a particular mandatory cycle lane in a particular location.

FYP

quozl

spyderski wrote: »

FYP

I think you broke it actually That is a 'mandatory' cycle lane. That doesn't mean that cyclists have to use it, it means that other vehicles cannot enter it unless they are crossing it. That is denoted by the solid white lines rather than dashed ones.

It's a specific term and doesn't mean what it would in normal english in the poster's sentence.

spyderski

Wow, it appears you're right! That's just insane.

So it's mandatory NOT to drive in it, but not mandatory to cycle in it.

Makes perfect sense really....

You learn something new everyday. (unless your job is to word road traffic legislation sensibly of course)

Macy0161

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Not sure of the relevance of this, yeah sure you could come across a taxi, bin lorry, ambulance or whatever in any given cycle lane in Dublin. It's a common occurrence. I didn't chat too much with her about her past encounters.

Or the cops themselves blocking the cycle lanes with themselves and vehicles they've pulled for illegally being in the bus lane, as I've witnessed a couple of times over the last number of weeks.

In the last number of years, I've seen them help push broken down cars into cycle lanes, and sweep glass from accidents into cycle lanes. So personally, I do think there's a lack of garda interest in issues affecting cyclists - sure once they help hand out hi viz and lights a few times a year, aren't they doing all they can? :rolleyes:

Pinch Flat

Those familiar with the area will know it's been changed from a dotted line (advisory lane) to a thick white line (mandatory lane ) - the new cycle lane stretches from harcourt street around the green to the shelbourne - so whereas stopping a vehicle in the advisory lane is permitted, it is illegal in the mandatory lane.

Anyway passed through there at the usual time this morning and the cycle lane was clear - maybe they were all fog bound in their Mercs and beamers.

So who knows - maybe a coincidence or there may have been a guard there.

NamelessPhil

You could always phone Trafficwatch 1890 205805. That'll certainly make it a Garda issue as all reports have to be followed up.

Pinch Flat

NamelessPhil wrote: »

You could always phone Trafficwatch 1890 205805. That'll certainly make it a Garda issue as all reports have to be followed up.

Yeah had considered that and I've done it before for dangerous driving - involves a trip to the local station to make a statement.

In this case I've emailed photographs of illegal and dangerous behaviour to the Gardai - I would have thought that in itself is enough in invoke the attention of the Gardai, but they've got bigger issues to consider I suppose.

Hi Ho

You took the initiative in formally raising the issue with the Gardai. It's people like you, who do things as opposed to just talking about them, get things changed.
Think about taking it a stage further if you are a member of Cycling Ireland and ask them to make representation to the authorities.
There is a feeling that no strong body is representing cyclist about this kind of issue and that this is a vacuum which CI should fill if it is to be relevant for a certain element of its membership. Bodies like this will have a lot more clout than individual members of the public. For example, they should be in a position to request a meeting with relevant ministers and Local Authority officials, get questions answered in the Dáil etc.

tampopo

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Yeah had considered that and I've done it before for dangerous driving - involves a trip to the local station to make a statement.

In this case I've emailed photographs of illegal and dangerous behaviour to the Gardai - I would have thought that in itself is enough in invoke the attention of the Gardai, but they've got bigger issues to consider I suppose.

Could you tell me the email address you contact the Gardai with please? By PM is okay.

You could also try, if you haven't already, calling 602-2500, press 2 when it answers and report any illegally parked cars. Be prepared to make multiple calls. And email parkingenforcement@dublincity.ie too for that matter.

And keep at it. Critical mass of reporting should make a difference as Hi Ho says and they have good advice too....

RainyDay

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I suppose this is the first time I've really pursued something like this. Seeing a fellow cyclist put in harms way and almost coming to a serious injury because of the stupidity and selfishness of others is what's really spurned me on.

I'm kind of surprised with the Gardai's response, they start off by stating the obvious and acknowledging its a problem. My read of this is that the dam has burst and there's no point doing anything about it. In fact one of the motorists I spoke to fully acknowledged she was parking illegally and causing danger to others, but hey she has to stop to drop her kids. So it's a cycle of nonchalance and lack of enforcement - seeing others doing it and getting away with it merely reinforces the behaviour and adds to the problem.

I'm going to leave it as is - not sure what the impact of a fuss either on social media or creating a fuss at the lane would have. I had considered printing a few leaflets and sticking them under the wipers of the offenders, but if your social compass is so flawed that you park like this they're likely to be discarded on the ground.

Will be adopting my cycling to deal with this in this area in future to take this on board - it's a shame, shiny new bike lane that is effectively a car park - sadly it looks like it's going to be something that remains unresolved. A central lane position will be one of the safer options rather than trying to change the behaviour of selfish people.

Yes, it's not easy to decide to take on an issue like this. If you fancy the social media approach, you could try doing the cyclist equivalent of this parking protest;

https://helpaquadout.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/genius-protest-speaks-out-against-parking-abuse/

Imaging 10 x Dublin Bikes lined up on stands in the cycle lane, with appropriate notes printed on them like 'back in a minute' and 'just dropping my little darling'. That would get huge attention on social media, which might just inspire the school and/or the Gardai to take some real action.

tampopo wrote: »

Could you tell me the email address you contact the Gardai with please? By PM is okay.

Yes, I'd be interested in the email details also.

Wishbone Ash

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I don't suppose its relevant to point out that it is highly likely that "providing a safe route to school" is probably among the reasons given for marking this cycle lane?

It's not particularly beneficial for cyclists going to that school as it runs northbound on a one way system with several lanes of traffic. Only one lane runs southbound there and is directly outside the school but as far as I can recall it is a contra-flow bus lane which can't be accessed by private vehicles (hence the probable reason for illegal parking on the opposite side of the street).

Pinch Flat

RainyDay wrote: »

Imaging 10 x Dublin Bikes lined up on stands in the cycle lane, with appropriate notes printed on them like 'back in a minute' and 'just dropping my little darling'. That would get huge attention on social media, which might just inspire the school and/or the Gardai to take some real....

It's kind of quaint in some ways the total disregard for parking illegally and the complete absence of enforcement. If it was down the country in a rural town maybe, but in the centre of a European capital city within ear shot of the dail is laughable, would someone get away with this near Westminster, the centre of Bonn or in the Vatican?

Popped out to Baggot St earlier to grab a sandwich, observed 4 cars abandoned on the street on double yellows. All within no more than 30 metres of each other - at 1pm.

One at the aib bank, another directly across the road at a noodle bar, one behind at the bookies next door (a favourite with taxi men - there seems to be a taxi permanently parked here) and another at a chemist shop a little down the road. On the way home, a hiy abandons a huge 142 S class outside the spar on merrion row - you know, to pick up a pint of milk or a Chardonnay for herself on the way home.

Obviously people are doing this safe in the knowledge that damn all will be done about it. It's the same with mandatory cycle lanes - safe in the knowledge that yeah it'll pi$$ off a few cyclists but hey once my little dear is dropped to school, who cares who I inconvenience.