How good was De Niro's Italian in The Godfather Part II?

MakeEmLaugh

As someone who doesn't speak Italian, I am wondering how fluent (and even native) Italian speakers regard Robert De Niro's Italian in The Godfather Part II.

Does he sound like a native speaker, or is his accent way off? Here's a clip of the film.

The Corinthian

Not very. His accent is off and he seems to mumble through the more complicated bits. He's not bad, but clearly not Italian, let alone Sicilian.

Eilis Plasticpaddy

In that film De Niro speaks Sicilian dialect pretty well, as he spent six months in Sicily, near Corleone (yeah, it's a real village, beside being the name of De Niro character!!) to learn the correct accent. Of course he's not an example of perfect Italian accent, because the "standard" Italian language is very different in pronunciation and also in grammar (construction of phrases and so on...) Trust me... I'm Italian, of course!

Irish Stones

Though I'm Italian and of southern origins I have difficulties at understanding what De Niro says in this clip. Most of the time he's just grumbling something. The other actor has a much clearer "Italian", sure he is

population

It is Sicilian with some bits of Italian. I live in Napoli so I can understand little bits from the cadence and intonation but tbh there is a big difference between him and the other actor.

population

Actually I don't think he even really speaks Italian. He was on Sanremo a few years ago and in what was probably a quarter hour interview he said maybe 3 words in Italian.

Irish Stones

population wrote: »

Actually I don't think he even really speaks Italian. He was on Sanremo a few years ago and in what was probably a quarter hour interview he said maybe 3 words in Italian.

All the American actors of Italian origins don't speak Italian apart from the usual words "ciao", "amo l'Italia" and so on.
I think that Italians are among the less tied to their tradition when they emigrate. I never met an Italian born abroad and still able to speak Italian.
Once I was in Stamford (UK) and a shop owner spoke to me in English only, because though he was born in Italy to Italian parents he was raised in England since age 3 and forgot his mother language. That's unbelievable to me!

The Corinthian

Irish Stones wrote: »

I think that Italians are among the less tied to their tradition when they emigrate. I never met an Italian born abroad and still able to speak Italian.

Depends on where they're born. In Ireland, there are (or were) very few Italians - it's not like you got to hang out with the other Italians in school. Here in Switzerland, the number of Italian immigrants is much greater, so the children of Italians had plenty of others with whom they could practice the language.

For me, I had only my family with whom I could speak - as a result, when I returned to Italy in the 1990's I sounded like someone who had time traveled from the 1970's at first. Others were less lucky and the level of Italian by many of my generation is less than fluent and often best described as creole.

Once I was in Stamford (UK) and a shop owner spoke to me in English only, because though he was born in Italy to Italian parents he was raised in England since age 3 and forgot his mother language. That's unbelievable to me!

At three, he wouldn't have been truly fluent (no child is), so it's not that unbelievable. The reality languages are lost over time if you don't get or make an effort to use them, even when you're an adult - one of the reasons I post here is to practice my English which I otherwise use sporadically.

Irish Stones

The Corinthian wrote: »

At three, he wouldn't have been truly fluent (no child is), so it's not that unbelievable. The reality languages are lost over time if you don't get or make an effort to use them, even when you're an adult - one of the reasons I post here is to practice my English which I otherwise use sporadically.

I think that when they're home with parents they speak Italian (mainly) so the language cannot be lost.
These are the lucky cases when a child grows up and is bilingual, fluent in both languages.
My neighbours are Indian (from India) and their sons speak Indian with their parents when their parents do the same and I think they are fluent or they wouldn't do it. They also speak a very good English.
Chinese and Arabs never forget their mother languages.

The Corinthian

Irish Stones wrote: »

I think that when they're home with parents they speak Italian (mainly) so the language cannot be lost.

Depends on the family, parents and so on. It can be an effort to do so, and many parents don't bother. Additionally, if only one parent is Italian, the other may not be able to speak it, resulting in only the common (local) language being used.

My neighbours are Indian (from India) and their sons speak Indian with their parents when their parents do the same and I think they are fluent or they wouldn't do it. They also speak a very good English.
Chinese and Arabs never forget their mother languages.

A lot of that is down to integration. The better a group can integrate into the local culture the more likely they'll lose their 'native' language over time.

Oddly another factor is uniformity of language; German and Italian in the Americas never took hold, in part, because at the time that these groups emigrated, the languages were not fully unified and immigrants spoke a collection of dialects. This is particularly true of Germans in the US and Italians in Argentina.

MakeEmLaugh

Irish Stones wrote: »

My neighbours are Indian (from India) and their sons speak Indian with their parents when their parents do the same and I think they are fluent or they wouldn't do it.

'Indian' isn't a language. They might speak Hindi or one of the other less common languages.

Irish Stones

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

'Indian' isn't a language. They might speak Hindi or one of the other less common languages.

Alright, they're from Punjab, so they speak Punjabi. Anyway it doesn't change the fact that their sons can speak their parents' language and we Italian forget our native language if we live abroad for 20 or 30 years.
That shop owner in Stamford left me speechless!

The Corinthian

Irish Stones wrote: »

Anyway it doesn't change the fact that their sons can speak their parents' language and we Italian forget our native language if we live abroad for 20 or 30 years.
That shop owner in Stamford left me speechless!

Guarda, questa polemica è un po ridicola.

Come ho già detto, a tre anni, questo negoziante non era fluente in italiano quando a lasciato l'Italia con i suoi - nessun bambino è a quel' eta. Oltre quello, tenendo la lingua è dipende a i genitori, e nel suo caso chiaramente non si sono dati da fare a tener viva la lingua a casa.

Questo succede, specialmente quando non c'è una comunità di espatriati italiani grande in giro o se i genitori sono incolti. E pure può succedere anche perché, dato che italiani sono Europei, abbiamo meno ostacoli a la integrazione in confronto ad altri popoli.

Ma sopratutto, la tua polemica è basata su un caso aneddotico - se vuoi un altro, che lo contraddice, ci sono io. Cosi; ci sono italiani che perdano la lingua - pero non esagerare il numero.

Eilis Plasticpaddy

The Corinthian wrote: »

Depends on where they're born. In Ireland, there are (or were) very few Italians - it's not like you got to hang out with the other Italians in school. Here in Switzerland, the number of Italian immigrants is much greater, so the children of Italians had plenty of others with whom they could practice the language.

For me, I had only my family with whom I could speak - as a result, when I returned to Italy in the 1990's I sounded like someone who had time traveled from the 1970's at first. Others were less lucky and the level of Italian by many of my generation is less than fluent and often best described as creole.

At three, he wouldn't have been truly fluent (no child is), so it's not that unbelievable. The reality languages are lost over time if you don't get or make an effort to use them, even when you're an adult - one of the reasons I post here is to practice my English which I otherwise use sporadically.

"Here in Switzerland, the number of Italian immigrants is much greater, so the children of Italians had plenty of others with whom they could practice the language."

You should also take into account that Italian is one of the three official languages of Switzerland, beside French and German and you're compelled to study all of them at school... Anyway the only Italian fluent speakers live near the Italian borders (Chiasso,Lugano) and they usually have a strong Northern Italy accent (mainly that of Lombardy)
As for De Niro partecipation to Sanremo... well, of course, one thing is to learn by heart a few lines in Italian and repeat them in the movie, but is completely different thing to be fluent in a verbal crossfire...

The Corinthian

Eilis Plasticpaddy wrote: »

You should also take into account that Italian is one of the three official languages of Switzerland, beside French and German and you're compelled to study all of them at school...

You're not compelled to. Most in the German part of Switzerland nowadays will opt for English first and then perhaps French in school. Italian is only persued by the children of Italians or Ticinesi (Swiss from the Italian speaking canton of Ticino).

I will say that as a second language Italian is more widely spoken in canton Zurich than French; largely because of the large Italian imigrant community, but also because, I suspect, because of the love that Swiss Germans and French have for each other - the Röstigraben.

Anyway the only Italian fluent speakers live near the Italian borders (Chiasso,Lugano) and they usually have a strong Northern Italy accent (mainly that of Lombardy)

Their dialect, Ticinese, is essentially Lombard dialect. Just don't say it to them as they'll get very upset...